Thread: classic

Having had it with the sappy Russian songs, and I mean big time, I follow up on the pranki's challenge and suggest translating the already mentioned fragment by Gerty. I am curious how this would look in English, but I am uncapable of doing it myself. Any takers?

- Так что там с проклятием? - Сашка быстрее всех отошел от бурной сцены и вернулся к разговору о деле. - Значит, какие-то навки из болота выползают и мальчишек целуют до смерти?
- Ага! - кивнула Анисья. - А потом и усех, кто в домине есть: и мамку, и деток усех, и птице, и скотину, и кошку!
- И все от этого помирают?
- Усе! - Анисья кивнула так энергично, что я думал, у нее голова оторвется. - А те, кто не помират, те с ума сбегат. Дурны делаются, самасшедши. Особенна када мальчонка навку с заду увидат.
- А что у нее сзади? - поинтересовался я. Анисья помолчала немного, потом перекатилась на колени, подползла ко мне и дернула за штанину. Я присел на корточки и снова ощутил исходящий от нее терпкий запах. Девчонка приблизила свое лицо к моему и прошептала таинственно:
- А у навок спины нету.
- К-как это "спины нету"? - я сглотнул слюну.
- А так-так: навка по виду - как девка баска, волос черен, лицо бело, румяно, зубья калены, восры, коса длинна, до земли. Во как ета, - Анисья кивнула на Лену. - А узнать ее можно так: сзаду к ней зайти, одежу на ней задрат и глянут - то нет у ней спины и все нутро-требуха видна!..
Я резко встал и тут же почувствовал приступ тошноты, какой бывает, когда посмотришь с водонапорной башни вниз и удивишься, как же высоко ты залез. Страх тонкими ручейками полез за шиворот и растекся по спине. Мучительно тянуло обернуться и посмотреть: не стоит ли кто-то у меня за плечами? Может, пока мы тут разговариваем, какая-нибудь нечисть болотная вышла на свет божий и стала в дверях, и поэтому в амбаре вдруг стало так сумеречно. И если я сейчас обернусь, то увижу, как сзади стоит и смотрит мне в спину нечто такое, от вида чего я упаду замертво... А Анисья поднялась вслед за мной и, не отрывая взгляда от моего лица, прошептала еще тише, словно тайна пугала и ее саму:
- И кто из мальчонков навку таку увидит - тот с ума сходит зараз, и ходит, воит, стонет, пока в болото не прыгнет, шоб страх свой похоронить, вона как!

Originally Posted by adoc

Having had it with the sappy Russian songs, and I mean big time, I follow up on the pranki's challenge and suggest translating the already mentioned fragment by Gerty. I am curious how this would look in English, but I am uncapable of doing it myself. Any takers?

that's one funny text, I wonder where it is coming from.
Anyway, it would not be a big deal for any native speaker to translate the meaning. But a professional translation would be rather hard, if you wanted to convey the impression of the girl's speech you'd have to know some quite obscure English dialects. I also think that things like "навка" (she is a mythical swamp creature; I actually thought they only lived in Ukraine but this text is clearly Russian) should be just left as navka and explained in footnotes.

Originally Posted by laxxy

Originally Posted by adoc

that's one funny text, I wonder where it is coming from.

Oh I fugured out where it came from Nice work Gerty!!

Originally Posted by laxxy

Anyway, it would not be a big deal for any native speaker to translate the meaning. But a professional translation would be rather hard, if you wanted to convey the impression of the girl's speech you'd have to know some quite obscure English dialects.

Not a big deal?? I don't think so, a successful English speaker (or do you mean Russian native speaker?) would have to understand first what the fragment is saying. Judging by the attempts to translate Rosenbaum into English on this forum, it will not be that easy. Anyways, this looks like an excessively hard task.

I am pretty sure that is extremely difficult text to translate, first it contains some weird contry-stick lingo you will never find in dictionaries. It is still a very talanted text. And then translating this into English, you need to get similar country-stick lingo, to show very uneducated language somewhere in a far village.

Originally Posted by adoc

Originally Posted by laxxy

Anyway, it would not be a big deal for any native speaker to translate the meaning. But a professional translation would be rather hard, if you wanted to convey the impression of the girl's speech you'd have to know some quite obscure English dialects.

Not a big deal?? I don't think so, a successful English speaker (or do you mean Russian native speaker?) would have to understand first what the fragment is saying. Judging by the attempts to translate Rosenbaum into English on this forum, it will not be that easy. Anyways, this looks like an excessively hard task.

I meant a Russian native speaker, of course. The problem is that he/she would likely not be able to convey the nuances which make this so interesting, just the meaning.

Originally Posted by Pioner

I am pretty sure that is extremely difficult text to translate, first it contains some weird contry-stick lingo you will never find in dictionaries. It is still a very talanted text. And then translating this into English, you need to get similar country-stick lingo, to show very uneducated language somewhere in a far village.

I'd say that this is not so much uneducated as it is dialectal. Although with most local dialects dying in Russia, the only people who would actually speak like that would be the older village dwellers. So you are right, too.

It's a pity imho because many of these are interesting and more authentic than the literary Russian (which is a rather artificial language with lots of borrowed foreign words and such). I am at least happy that Ukrainian language avoided a similar fate, although Bielorussian is most likely already unsalvageable (I hope I'm wrong of course, but the vital signs are not good).

well, educated person would not speak this way, because he/she used to literal language. non-educated - I did not mean stupid, but with a lack of formal education.

Yes, Belorussian sounds like a dialect of Russian to me, but Ukranian is definetaly is a separate language, got even some different grammar rules.

It seems this text is the Gerty's revenge to English speakers, because she have to live in Canada

Originally Posted by adoc

Having had it with the sappy Russian songs, and I mean big time, I follow up on the pranki's challenge and suggest translating the already mentioned fragment by Gerty. I am curious how this would look in English, but I am uncapable of doing it myself. Any takers?

My name is Kalinka_vinnie, and I accept the quest!

Well I will do it in small parts, so you can help me more efficiently

- Так что там с проклятием? - Сашка быстрее всех отошел от бурной сцены и вернулся к разговору о деле.
- So what's with this curse? - Sashka was the quickest to calm down and got straight down to business

- Значит, какие-то навки из болота выползают и мальчишек целуют до смерти?
- So, some kind of Navkis (mythical figures) crawl out of the swamp and kiss boys to death?

- Ага! - кивнула Анисья. - А потом и усех, кто в домине есть: и мамку, и деток усех, и птице, и скотину, и кошку!
- Uhhuh! - Nodded Anisya - And afterwards all 'em in the house: The mummy and all the children, and the birds, and the cattle and the kitty!

- И все от этого помирают?
- And everybody dies of this?

- Усе! - Анисья кивнула так энергично, что я думал, у нее голова оторвется.
- All of 'em! - Anisya nodded so violently that I thought that her head would fall off

- А те, кто не помират, те с ума сбегат. Дурны делаются, самасшедши. Особенна када мальчонка навку с заду увидат.
- And those who don't die go nuts. Made in to fools, lunatics. Especially when the guys see the navka from beheind


- А что у нее сзади? - поинтересовался я. Анисья помолчала немного, потом перекатилась на колени, подползла ко мне и дернула за штанину. Я присел на корточки и снова ощутил исходящий от нее терпкий запах. Девчонка приблизила свое лицо к моему и прошептала таинственно:

- What does she have behind her? - I inquired. Anisya turned quiet for a while, then rolled her self on the knees, crawled up to me and tugged my pants. I squatted and again sensed a tart smell emanating from her. The girl brought her face close to mine and whispered secretly:

- А у навок спины нету.
- К-как это "спины нету"? - я сглотнул слюну.
- The navkas don't have a back.
- W-what do you mean, don't have a back? - I gulped.

- А так-так: навка по виду - как девка баска, волос черен, лицо бело, румяно, зубья калены, восры, коса длинна, до земли. Во как ета, - Анисья кивнула на Лену. - А узнать ее можно так: сзаду к ней зайти, одежу на ней задрат и глянут - то нет у ней спины и все нутро-требуха видна!..
- Like this, see: In appearance the Navka is like a cute girl, black hair, white rosy face, strong sharp teeth, long plaits reaching the ground. Like this gal - Anisya nodded at Lena. - And you can recognize her like this: Go behind her, hitch up her clothes and look - She doesn't have a back and all her guts are visible!..

Я резко встал и тут же почувствовал приступ тошноты, какой бывает, когда посмотришь с водонапорной башни вниз и удивишься, как же высоко ты залез.
I abruptly stood up and immediatly felt sick, the kind that happens when you look down from a water tower and find out how high you climbed.

Страх тонкими ручейками полез за шиворот и растекся по спине. Мучительно тянуло обернуться и посмотреть: не стоит ли кто-то у меня за плечами?
The fear trickled in small streams from my collar and ran down my back. I was painfully drawn to turn and look: Is there someone standing behind my shoulders?

Может, пока мы тут разговариваем, какая-нибудь нечисть болотная вышла на свет божий и стала в дверях, и поэтому в амбаре вдруг стало так сумеречно.
Maybe, while we were talking, some kind of evil spirit of the swamp came to earth and stood in the doors, and that is why it suddenly became so dusky in the barn.

И если я сейчас обернусь, то увижу, как сзади стоит и смотрит мне в спину нечто такое, от вида чего я упаду замертво...
And if I now turn around, and see how the monster from behind stands and watches me in the back, I will fall dead from the sight of it.

А Анисья поднялась вслед за мной и, не отрывая взгляда от моего лица, прошептала еще тише, словно тайна пугала и ее саму:
But Anisya stood up with me and, without taking away her eyes from my face, whispered even quieter, as if the secret scared even her:

- И кто из мальчонков навку таку увидит - тот с ума сходит зараз, и ходит, воит, стонет, пока в болото не прыгнет, шоб страх свой похоронить, вона как!
- And those of the guys who see such a navka, will go nuts at once and he wanders around, howling and moaning, until he jumps into the swamp, to bury his fear, that's how it is, see!

Great job! I'm quite impressed. Just a few things:

Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie

- А те, кто не помират, те с ума сбегат. Дурны делаются, самасшедши. Особенна када мальчонка навку с заду увидат.
- And those who don't die, go crazy. Made in to fools, crazy people. They see a special (kada?) of a boy from the rear

када=когда=when ("especially when a boy sees a navka from behind").

- А что у нее сзади? - поинтересовался я. Анисья помолчала немного, потом перекатилась на колени, подползла ко мне и дернула за штанину. Я присел на корточки и снова ощутил исходящий от нее терпкий запах. Девчонка приблизила свое лицо к моему и прошептала таинственно:

- What those she have in the rear?

"what does she have..." probably?

- А так-так: навка по виду - как девка баска, волос черен, лицо бело, румяно, зубья калены, восры, коса длинна, до земли. Во как ета, - Анисья кивнула на Лену. - А узнать ее можно так: сзаду к ней зайти, одежу на ней задрат и глянут - то нет у ней спины и все нутро-требуха видна!..
- Like this: On appearance the Navka is like a baska(?) girl, black hair, white rosy face, red-hot teeth, vosry (?), long plaits reaching the ground. Like this one - Anisya nodded at Lena. - And you can recognize her like this: Go behind her, hitch up her clothes and look - She doesn't have a back and all the insides are visible!..

баска=pretty
калены=каленые=hard (e.g. каленая пластина=a (steel) plate that has undergone "закаливание", a thermal hardening process, not sure about the english word)
восры=острые=sharp
i'd translate 'требуха' as 'guts'

Страх тонкими ручейками полез за шиворот и растекся по спине. Мучительно тянуло обернуться и посмотреть: не стоит ли кто-то у меня за плечами?
The fear in small streams crawled from the collar and rand down the back. Agony pulled to turn and look: Is there someone standing by my shoulders?

i'd translate as 'behind my shoulders', and while I am not a native speaker, "Agony pulled to turn and look" sounds a bit weird to me.

- И кто из мальчонков навку таку увидит - тот с ума сходит зараз, и ходит, воит, стонет, пока в болото не прыгнет, шоб страх свой похоронить, вона как!
- And those of the boys who sees such a navka, he will go crazy of a disease and he walks, howls, moans, if he hasn't already jumped into the swamp, schob(?) to bury his fear, that's how it is!

шоб (укр. щоб) = чтобы = in order to.
Well, Gerty is obviously the authority here but I do hope I got all of these right.

Originally Posted by Pioner

well, educated person would not speak this way, because he/she used to literal language. non-educated - I did not mean stupid, but with a lack of formal education.

I agree, I just mean that this is also some local dialect (i.e. someone from Voronezhska oblast' would not be speaking like this (imho) regardless of his/her education).

Yes, Belorussian sounds like a dialect of Russian to me, but Ukranian is definetaly is a separate language, got even some different grammar rules.

Bielorussian is definitely closer to Russian than Ukrainian. It is also an interesting example of interesting completely phonetic spelling, reading it feels like reading English written in international phonetic alphabet

U da man KV

Originally Posted by laxxy

калены=каленые=hard (e.g. каленая пластина=a (steel) plate that has undergone "закаливание", a thermal hardening process, not sure about the english word)

The technical term is "tempered".
"tempered steel" is steel that has undergone thermal hardening.

IMHO, only metallugists would know this word. I worked in a Titanium metal factory for several years.

Originally Posted by kwatts59

Originally Posted by laxxy

калены=каленые=hard (e.g. каленая пластина=a (steel) plate that has undergone "закаливание", a thermal hardening process, not sure about the english word)

The technical term is "tempered".
"tempered steel" is steel that has undergone thermal hardening.

IMHO, only metallugists would know this word. I worked in a Titanium metal factory for several years.

Thanks. The words (both the one for the result and for the process) are relatively popular in russian, you can expect most people to know them (including backward village girls, most villages used to have smithies back when people actually spoke like that).
US is a bit different society (I work with a ~45-year old woman from a very common family, and she's never seen a cow in her life...)

I hoped KV would not miss the opportunity, nice draft .

Let's see what's not resolved yet:

Сашка быстрее всех отошел - I am not sure that get away here is good. He cooled down. Отойти has a meaning of calming down, and this is it.

Мучительно тянуло обернуться... This is once again one of those impersonal constructs in Russian we've talked about.

[Меня] тянет домой.
[Меня] тянет спать.

Literally: I'm drawn home, I'm drawn to sleep.
Maybe "I was painfully drawn to turn"?

пока в болото не прыгнет
until he jumps into the swamp

I am not asking to transform the Anisya's speech into a country-style dialect (you've noticed distorted and outdated words, some of them are probably still present in Ukrainian and/or Belorussian, you laxxy be the judge of that), but if this can be done, the translation would be perfect

Now, tempered teeth (thanks kwatts59). It's some sort of a metaphore that I've heard from Russian folklore. It does not mean that the teeth are actually tempered, but that they are strong and healthy. In fact Anisya's whole talk reminds me of the Russian folklore, even the name is rare nowadays.

Wow! And I mean WOW! Kalinka, I'm SO impressed! You a great. You even got some of the freakish dialect words, which is - wow.

I have to explain something about the language in this book ("classic", yeah ). Actually, this is not an authentic dialect, but it was custom made for the book. I combined a few Siberian dialects (which are much lighter than that one) to make a specific, very strangely-sounding language of a small isolated village. So, russian native speakers can understand what these people are talking about, and even if they don't recognize each word, they can guess what it means from the context.

It's true that there are few non-russian, eastern-slavic (as bielorussian, ukranian) words in Siberian dialects, that the exiled from the western part of Russian Empire brought there in 18, 19 centuries. And it's possible to find some westren-Slavik mythical figures in Siberia, although here it was just an artificial mythology made up for the village.

Yup, Kalinka was very impressive.

btw, Gerty: I think you might find this interesting:

http://www.volgota.org/HomePage -- siberian language
http://www.livejournal.com/users/samir74/ -- the principal compiler's blog

the project is purely an academic exercise so far and it's not done yet afair, but you seem to be a person who might actually make use of it!

Thanks all...

Ok, I updated my translation with you suggestions, I tried to make Anisya's speech more slangish... but I think I would need some help of people who know more slang... I still am not sure of my translation of:

потом перекатилась на колени - then rolled her self on the knees

it doesn't make sense to me...

Thanks for your warm words...

Kalinka, I am really impressed, no words, just emotions, your translation is great, take a word from me, I know what I am talking about.

for "перекатилась на колени", that is simple (for Russians), imagine, she was sitting on her butts, with legs bended tight to her body, her chin is on her knees (emprio pose, but sitting upright), then she rolled forward closer to him and got on her knees standing next to him...