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Thread: Чайка Чехова

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    Чайка Чехова

    От первой сцены :

    Маша. Дело не в деньгах. И бедняк может быть счастлив.

    Медведенко. Это в теории, а на практике выходит так: я, да мать, да две сестры и братишка, а жалованья всего 23 рубля. Ведь есть и пить надо? Чаю и сахару надо? Табаку надо? Вот тут и вертись.

    Эта фраза всегда беспокоила меня. Я сказал бы "It just never ends!", но этот перевод слишком свободный, да?
    —Ravin' Dave

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    In case you didn't get its meaning - here it means something like
    "Вот и попробуй при таких обстоятельствах свести концы с концами."

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    Вертеться здесь - efforts for survival, to keep the wolf off the door.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ramil
    Вертеться здесь - efforts for survival, to keep the wolf off the door.
    And monkey off the back...
    Of all the things I've lost I miss MY MIND the most...

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    Re: Чайка Чехова

    Quote Originally Posted by RavinDave
    От первой сцены :

    Маша. Дело не в деньгах. И бедняк может быть счастлив.

    Медведенко. Это в теории, а на практике выходит так: я, да мать, да две сестры и братишка, а жалованья всего 23 рубля. Ведь есть и пить надо? Чаю и сахару надо? Табаку надо? Вот тут и вертись.

    Эта фраза всегда беспокоила меня. Я сказал бы "It just never ends!", но этот перевод слишком свободный, да?
    It has been translated already, the whole thing! Check this out:
    http://vtheatre.net/plays/seagull.html
    Well, I don't know what to say. I want to say thanks to the Academy, to Mama, to Papa and to my dog. I love you all.

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    Re: Чайка Чехова

    Quote Originally Posted by charlestonian
    t has been translated already, the whole thing! Check this out:
    http://vtheatre.net/plays/seagull.html
    I appreciate the gesture charlestonian. It's very thoughtful of you.

    However, that is a pretty bad translation. I'm guessing (since it's from Project Gutenberg) it's probably one of Constance Ganett's abominations.

    Take the phrase in question above: "Вот тут и вертись." is rendered as: "Answer me that, if you can."

    In short, I have no trouble reading Chekhov in Russian. It's just that every so often I run into an idiom that perplexes me, as was the case here.
    —Ravin' Dave

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    Re: Чайка Чехова

    Quote Originally Posted by RavinDave
    Quote Originally Posted by charlestonian
    t has been translated already, the whole thing! Check this out:
    http://vtheatre.net/plays/seagull.html
    I appreciate the gesture charlestonian. It's very thoughtful of you.

    However, that is a pretty bad translation. I'm guessing (since it's from Project Gutenberg) it's probably one of Constance Ganett's abominations.

    Take the phrase in question above: "Вот тут и вертись." is rendered as: "Answer me that, if you can."

    In short, I have no trouble reading Chekhov in Russian. It's just that every so often I run into an idiom that perplexes me, as was the case here.
    OK... Maybe something like that then:

    "Вот тут и вертись" = "Try to make it on that!"
    Well, I don't know what to say. I want to say thanks to the Academy, to Mama, to Papa and to my dog. I love you all.

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    Re: Чайка Чехова

    Quote Originally Posted by charlestonian
    OK... Maybe something like that then:

    "Вот тут и вертись" = "Try to make it on that!"
    Well ... yeah, technically that's the "sense" of it. But I was digging a bit deeper than a loose translation. And I fully realize there is probably not going to be a direct English idiom that will suffice.

    Let me explain: "Вертеться" carries the notion of "spinning". I'm trying to see how that relates to the idiom. Is it "spinning" in the sense of "chasing one's tail" and getting nowhere? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "it just goes on and on and on and never ends"? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "juggling several things at once"? Is it something completely different?
    —Ravin' Dave

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    what about 'running in circles'?
    Не откладывай на завтра того, с кем можешь переспать сегодня
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    http://england-moscow.com/

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    I guess I'd probably go with something along the lines of:

    "How can I make ends meet with all that?"

    But I'm not really satisfied with it (even though it deals with "Вертеться", in that the ends are coming around to join).

    Chekhov has a lot of lines that give me headaches. Heck, the very first line is a pun that no one has translated well.

    Медведенко: Отчего вы всегда ходите в черном?

    Why do you always wear black?

    But, it also plays off the word "black", something like: "Why are you always so downbeat?" or "Why are you always in such a foul mood?" or "Why are you such a gloomy Gus?", etc.
    —Ravin' Dave

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    Властелин charlestonian's Avatar
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    Отчего вы всегда ходите в черном?
    Why are you such a pessimist?
    or
    Why are you always such a sourpuss?
    Well, I don't know what to say. I want to say thanks to the Academy, to Mama, to Papa and to my dog. I love you all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by charlestonian
    Отчего вы всегда ходите в черном?
    Why are you such a pessimist?
    or
    Why are you always such a sourpuss?
    But you can't use either of those, because then the next sentence won't make much sense:

    Маша: Это траур по моей жизни. Я несчастна.
    Masha: It's (a symbol of) mourning for my life. I'm unhappy.


    That's the problem with puns. He means it one way (in a black mood), she takes it another (in a black dress). And the poor ol' translator has to choose one or the other.

    —Ravin' Dave

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    Re: Чайка Чехова

    Quote Originally Posted by RavinDave
    Let me explain: "Вертеться" carries the notion of "spinning". I'm trying to see how that relates to the idiom. Is it "spinning" in the sense of "chasing one's tail" and getting nowhere? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "it just goes on and on and on and never ends"? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "juggling several things at once"? Is it something completely different?
    I think somebody suggested in another topic that it's "spinning" in the sense of "a squirrel constantly running in its wheel".
    Please correct my mistakes if you can, especially article usage.
    My avatar shall be the author I'm currently reading.

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    Re: Чайка Чехова

    Quote Originally Posted by RavinDave
    Let me explain: "Вертеться" carries the notion of "spinning". I'm trying to see how that relates to the idiom. Is it "spinning" in the sense of "chasing one's tail" and getting nowhere? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "it just goes on and on and on and never ends"? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "juggling several things at once"? Is it something completely different?
    I'm not sure that all Russians perceive this metaphor of spinning the way I do, but I'll try to explain what I think. If you are in need of money because you can't get enough from one source of income, you do odd jobs which, so to speak, "are placed around you in different directions". So you "turn" to one job, then to the other and so on - you "are spinning". Also, it may be not only about odd jobs, but about places where you could get cheap goods.

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    Властелин charlestonian's Avatar
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    What about these versions?

    1)Such a rat race!
    (a very american expression)

    2)And, here I go around in circle(s)
    This was proposed already, I just want to agree and show the link
    www.answers.com/topic/circle

    3)I run around like a blue-arsed fly (not US) ...
    www.proz.com/glossary-translations/russ ... ations/149

    4)And, here I am, just spinning wheels
    Well, I don't know what to say. I want to say thanks to the Academy, to Mama, to Papa and to my dog. I love you all.

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    Don't you know very common saying: "Хочешь жить - умей вертеться!" ?
    Вертеться here means to find means of survival - by hard work, theft, deception, whatever.

    "Вертеться как белка в колесе"means to be VERY busy. A slightly another meaning.

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