Thread: Чайка Чехова

От первой сцены :

Маша. Дело не в деньгах. И бедняк может быть счастлив.

Медведенко. Это в теории, а на практике выходит так: я, да мать, да две сестры и братишка, а жалованья всего 23 рубля. Ведь есть и пить надо? Чаю и сахару надо? Табаку надо? Вот тут и вертись.

Эта фраза всегда беспокоила меня. Я сказал бы "It just never ends!", но этот перевод слишком свободный, да?

In case you didn't get its meaning - here it means something like
"Вот и попробуй при таких обстоятельствах свести концы с концами."

Вертеться здесь - efforts for survival, to keep the wolf off the door.

Originally Posted by Ramil

Вертеться здесь - efforts for survival, to keep the wolf off the door.

And monkey off the back...

Originally Posted by RavinDave

От первой сцены :

Маша. Дело не в деньгах. И бедняк может быть счастлив.

Медведенко. Это в теории, а на практике выходит так: я, да мать, да две сестры и братишка, а жалованья всего 23 рубля. Ведь есть и пить надо? Чаю и сахару надо? Табаку надо? Вот тут и вертись.

Эта фраза всегда беспокоила меня. Я сказал бы "It just never ends!", но этот перевод слишком свободный, да?

It has been translated already, the whole thing! Check this out:
http://vtheatre.net/plays/seagull.html

Originally Posted by charlestonian

t has been translated already, the whole thing! Check this out:
http://vtheatre.net/plays/seagull.html

I appreciate the gesture charlestonian. It's very thoughtful of you.

However, that is a pretty bad translation. I'm guessing (since it's from Project Gutenberg) it's probably one of Constance Ganett's abominations.

Take the phrase in question above: "Вот тут и вертись." is rendered as: "Answer me that, if you can."

In short, I have no trouble reading Chekhov in Russian. It's just that every so often I run into an idiom that perplexes me, as was the case here.

Originally Posted by RavinDave

Originally Posted by charlestonian

t has been translated already, the whole thing! Check this out:
http://vtheatre.net/plays/seagull.html

I appreciate the gesture charlestonian. It's very thoughtful of you.

However, that is a pretty bad translation. I'm guessing (since it's from Project Gutenberg) it's probably one of Constance Ganett's abominations.

Take the phrase in question above: "Вот тут и вертись." is rendered as: "Answer me that, if you can."

In short, I have no trouble reading Chekhov in Russian. It's just that every so often I run into an idiom that perplexes me, as was the case here.

OK... Maybe something like that then:

"Вот тут и вертись" = "Try to make it on that!"

Originally Posted by charlestonian

OK... Maybe something like that then:

"Вот тут и вертись" = "Try to make it on that!"

Well ... yeah, technically that's the "sense" of it. But I was digging a bit deeper than a loose translation. And I fully realize there is probably not going to be a direct English idiom that will suffice.

Let me explain: "Вертеться" carries the notion of "spinning". I'm trying to see how that relates to the idiom. Is it "spinning" in the sense of "chasing one's tail" and getting nowhere? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "it just goes on and on and on and never ends"? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "juggling several things at once"? Is it something completely different?

what about 'running in circles'?

I guess I'd probably go with something along the lines of:

"How can I make ends meet with all that?"

But I'm not really satisfied with it (even though it deals with "Вертеться", in that the ends are coming around to join).

Chekhov has a lot of lines that give me headaches. Heck, the very first line is a pun that no one has translated well.

Медведенко: Отчего вы всегда ходите в черном?

Why do you always wear black?

But, it also plays off the word "black", something like: "Why are you always so downbeat?" or "Why are you always in such a foul mood?" or "Why are you such a gloomy Gus?", etc.

Отчего вы всегда ходите в черном?
Why are you such a pessimist?
or
Why are you always such a sourpuss?

Originally Posted by charlestonian

Отчего вы всегда ходите в черном?
Why are you such a pessimist?
or
Why are you always such a sourpuss?

But you can't use either of those, because then the next sentence won't make much sense:

Маша: Это траур по моей жизни. Я несчастна.
Masha: It's (a symbol of) mourning for my life. I'm unhappy.

That's the problem with puns. He means it one way (in a black mood), she takes it another (in a black dress). And the poor ol' translator has to choose one or the other.

Originally Posted by RavinDave

Let me explain: "Вертеться" carries the notion of "spinning". I'm trying to see how that relates to the idiom. Is it "spinning" in the sense of "chasing one's tail" and getting nowhere? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "it just goes on and on and on and never ends"? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "juggling several things at once"? Is it something completely different?

I think somebody suggested in another topic that it's "spinning" in the sense of "a squirrel constantly running in its wheel".

Originally Posted by RavinDave

Let me explain: "Вертеться" carries the notion of "spinning". I'm trying to see how that relates to the idiom. Is it "spinning" in the sense of "chasing one's tail" and getting nowhere? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "it just goes on and on and on and never ends"? Is it "spinning" in the sense of "juggling several things at once"? Is it something completely different?

I'm not sure that all Russians perceive this metaphor of spinning the way I do, but I'll try to explain what I think. If you are in need of money because you can't get enough from one source of income, you do odd jobs which, so to speak, "are placed around you in different directions". So you "turn" to one job, then to the other and so on - you "are spinning". Also, it may be not only about odd jobs, but about places where you could get cheap goods.

What about these versions?

1)Such a rat race!
(a very american expression)

2)And, here I go around in circle(s)
This was proposed already, I just want to agree and show the link
www.answers.com/topic/circle

3)I run around like a blue-arsed fly (not US) ...
www.proz.com/glossary-translations/russ ... ations/149

4)And, here I am, just spinning wheels

Don't you know very common saying: "Хочешь жить - умей вертеться!" ?
Вертеться here means to find means of survival - by hard work, theft, deception, whatever.

"Вертеться как белка в колесе"means to be VERY busy. A slightly another meaning.