Thread: what religion was believed before orthodox christianism?

What were the gods and goddess or demons more important in Russian folklore before the Orthodox Christianism?

I hope someone intelligent answers cos in this forum of "general discussion" there's no general discussion at all but 90% questions about meeting Russians or repetitive questions about how-to-learn-Russian and Cirilic alphabet! Yet 10% left is about culture.

You might have asked in the "Culture and History" forum if you want to talk about culture. The stuff you cited is indeed what would be considered "general" discussion.

There was one called Dazhbog or something, who was borrowed from Iranian.
It was all part of Vladimir I's Pagan Pantheon. Vladimir I was the one who converted Rus' to Orthodoxy in about 955 AD if my memory serves me.
I recently wrote an essay about this.

General Discussion includes history, culture, math, religion, philosophy and everything not only languages.
Taty, please explain more about these Iranian importation. I want to know if Russian used to believe in glyphs like the one we see in last Harry Potter film or something like eagle-humans or cherubs. Perhaps you can help me cos you wrote an essay about it!

Originally Posted by chinitial

General Discussion includes history, culture, math, religion, philosophy and everything not only languages.
Taty, please explain more about these Iranian importation. I want to know if Russian used to believe in glyphs like the one we see in last Harry Potter film or something like eagle-humans or cherubs. Perhaps you can help me cos you wrote an essay about it!

No, my essay was something like "What were Vladminir I's reasons for choosing Orthodoxy" I hardly wrote much about the pagan stuf.

Svarog, Svetodvid and the gang!

Originally Posted by chinitial

What were the gods and goddess or demons more important in Russian folklore before the Orthodox Christianism?

Slavic peoples were pagans before becomming Orthodox.

You could google for "Slavic paganism" to come up with websites like this one http://www.winterscapes.com/slavic.htm

Or if you can read Russian then here's a great resource for you http://paganism.msk.ru/

The gods/goddesses included (in Russian): Род, Белобог/Свентовид, Чернобог/Велес, Триглав, Стрибог, Светулуша, Макошь, Сытиврат, Крът, Лада, Ящер, Сварог, etc.

Saints [ghosts] included: Банник, Водяной, Домовой, Леший, Лихо, Оборотень, Русалка, etc.

Thanks for the link about Slavic entities. I am comparing gods and found interesting the similarities of concept. It would be interesting to know if Jarovit (Gerovit) like a god of war was equivalent to Mars/Ares in shape. Svantovit and Dazhbog had dog heads and horns while the dragon Volos could be serpent or wolf-headed and Simargl was a winged-dog or griffin guardian of the sacred tree. And could be invisible. There was a falcon god Rarog and while Porenutius had four faces in a head , Triglav (Tribog) had 3 faces. There was Zmei Gorynich, the serpent of the mountain.
We Western civilization have been intoxicated with the ideas of atheistic Jewish Freud thinking these have always been symbols or mere archetypes as if this was the final . of discussion. Jung, Freud's disciple, was wiser, analyzed more dreams, traveled worldwide and studied more mythology than his master and concluded these are "powerful". Yet I wonder why the gods are always the same all over the world with specific characteristics. The fact they are hybrid creatures, usually half human half animals. Why instead of merely animals? Could it be possible we were not talking symbols or metaphors at all?
Behold the dense mutations in our physical world. The following photos are not hoaxes but appear in books of genetic. There are 138 reported sightings of winged-cats and 28 documented. It's a case of what in scientific name is called feline cutaneous asthenia, and you will see a two-faced cat:
www.messybeast.com/freak-face.htm
www.messybeast.com/winged-cats.htm

The general assumption is people imported concepts from an ancient source. But why would they have to accept those symbols unless they make you remember something real? For example, Chinese people were not particularly affected by Judaism nor Christianism but since long date they have the ideograms of a woman staring a couple of trees meaning our word "covet". We have more links that remind that idea of Tempter in one of two trees not only in Genesis but in Chinese language. Read or print this:
www.creationism.org/chinese2.jpg
A Russian-Jewish author called Zecharia Sitchin (whom I have exchanged some letters) presented the idea Sumerian gods did genetic engineering in humans. Yet, he thinks -like D

This is a letter I sent to egyptologist Anthony West and I'm not authorized to post his answer but in a nutshell he said to me usually his collegues know very few about what ancient egyptians did cos they keep a narrow minded attitude defending their dogmas and although he shares with me some of my points he wouldn't bribe his way to enter in sacred dark temples or pyramids to his private investigation in the area I'm discussing. This is important to understand the mystery of why Egyptians worshipped 740 hybrid gods and why Sumerians, Assyrians, Babilonian, Incas, Mayas, Aztex, Moches, Olmecas, Tiahuanacos, Hindues do have so many similar details:

"Must’ve been difficult task for an Egyptologist to comprehend ancient Egyptian knowledge without the proper use of hallucinogenic stuff and shamanism, just as difficult for the psychiatrist or psychologist to understand the mind of the schizophrenic without knowing the effect in his (her) brain or knowing about mythology. That illness is not a splitting in the sense of double personality but the dichotomy between what is considered real and unreal and it’s still a mystery. Neurophysiologists don’t know for sure if it’s caused by short circuit in the neurons, alteration of dopamine and other chemical substances, prion smaller than bacteria but bigger than virus, brain anomaly. In other times it was considered just a problem of the “mind”. This knowledge is especially true when we know the use of those substances was important in ancient civilizations. In fact, how would Egyptologists understand we’re not dealing with powerful “myths”? In our neurotic society of consume we’re facing the adventure to know who we are and what is the universe as if started or ended with Freud or Jung. That is simply a lie. Our representatives of the neo sacred-cow “science” -the high priests- are part of the model. What the heck does an archeologist or historian or Egyptologist know about the molecule dimethyltryptamine (DMT) psychoactive chemical C12H16N2 or about Charles Bonnet Syndrome (eye disease)? Probably nothing. Yet it’s a fact the Egyptian art is 2Dimensional cartoon-like creatures lacking depth. The objective knowledge of the substances in the sacred temples should’ve been a must for the scholar. Yet it’s considered irrelevant. Wouldn’t it be the very reason for the technique used by ancient people in polishing the stones to optical degree? Wouldn’t it be the cause for the darkness in the temples –among other reasons- for the exclusive use of the priests?

http://sprott.physics.wisc.edu/pickover/pc/dmt.html

http://www.dhushara.com/book/twelve/tw2 ... hor3056396

http://www.dhushara.com/book/wass/wasson3.htm

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/1.htm

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/5.htm

http://www.diagnosis2012.co.uk/3.htm#montauk

http://www.siriusrising.com/lionpath.htm

http://www.siriusrising.com/sirius.htm

http://www.siriusrising.com/myth.htm



Graham Hancock has given another important interpretation and indeed, includes the evil forces using the megaliths as places to charge batteries in a world grid. What’s the explanation of the Egyptologists and Historians or Archeologists when the tourists witnessed odd experiences in those places? They can’t give any explanation whatsoever because they have been too busy studying his (her) own beloved particular area of science in our Neo-Babel culture.

http://petragrail.tripod.com/megalith.html

Very easy to say the Egyptian’s head-cloth portray Uraeus snake. But do they study the reptiles maintain pineal gland near the surface of the skin where is light-sensitive just like our eyes? Very easy to study the meaning of Horus all-seeing eye of the Falcon God but do the study melatonin in human beings is naturally secreted by epiphysis (pineal gland) which is stimulated by darkness and that’s why they use Greek name in first place meaning the activity in darkness? In fact, the production is inhibited by light. Light detected by suprachiasmatic nucleus (SCN) which has direct connections to the retina and also plays a role in dreaming and visions.
When the ancients tried to depict what their senses felt, they represented hybrid creatures repeated not only in Egypt but all over the world. And all the time giving preference to specific animals. The white tiger and dragon-serpent in China, the winged bulls in Babylon and Assyria, the sphinx in Egypt (I wonder if it was illuminated in the sides to give the appearance of a flying falcon and if it had a bull’s tail in the past), the condor-cougar-winged snake or winged calves with feline face in Mesoamerica and South America, the eagle an cougar or bear in North America (pretty much like Ezekiel and Daniel visions), the 4 faces creatures in India and the worshipping of monkeys, felines, cows. To depict those creatures was difficult and even today is difficult to represent in bidimensional flat paper. In Jehovah’s Witnesses and Hare Krishna books, the face behind the head of the cherubs can’t be visible because the limitation of the paper.

In that sense, the argument used by physicist Michio Kaku in his “Hyperspace” is wrong. He commits the same mistake shared with Greek philosopher Xenophanes. If there other civilizations, they are not anthropomorphous but WE ARE THEOMORPHOUS in the shape of gods. This doesn’t have to be like Zecharia Sitchin, Von D

You're gonna see more and more about these influence. Did you pay attention to Necromonger 's helmet in Chronicles of Riddick?

http://www.imdb.com/gallery/ss/0296572/ ... ey=0296572

We have 3 faces here. In Harry Potter we saw a guy with 2 faces in a head. It's been filming Power Rangers who become Transformers, animal-mechanical devices which are integrated to turn out a being hybrid. We know teenagers enjoy Mortal Kombat violent heroes with several arms in video games and genetic experts are using genes of fishes in tomatoes or want to introduce transgenic animal DNA into our flesh. Isn't that exactly the hybridsm Leviticus forbade? We see human ear in mice body and people having fluorescent rabbits or cats or fishes with the mixture of jellyfish genes as "pets". That's the influence of the same fathers of the Nephilim who did genetic mutants to make us into their resemblance and image, to switch the order?
We believe in what we see. Yet the hallucinogenic substances behave like key-lock symbiosis between their chemical molecules and our serotonin and endorphins. Then we can see better. Even animals have sharper perception. What was seen or heard by the animals in the tsunami that they escape with anticipation and didn't die? In ghost houses dogs bark at some invisible to our eyes. They can even smell your "fear", cats see perfetly at night, a flie sees the world with 8000 hexagonal omatidies, birds see with better range and angle, eagles see you like having telescopes, sea creatures watch in ultraviolet or infrared but you are skeptical cos you can't see?

Slavic peoples were pagans before becomming Orthodox

Would the Indigenous people and Shamans be the same as what you are referring to as pagans?

We have a tendency to believe everything outside from Christianism is paganism but I wonder if everything is "pagan"? Let's take a glance to Judaism and Christianism.
When Christ did some miracle cures he used to spit or use saliva to make mud of it. Mark 7:33, 34; 8:23. Christians ignore that was precisely Egyptian procedure! There's some mention in the Bible when they wanted to know if a woman was adulterous, they wrote Hebrew specific letters in a document that afterwards was introduced in a bowl with water. Then the woman had to drink the water and if she was adulterous her baby would be born dead. That was also Egyptian magic. Moses (says Acts 7:22) was instructed in Egyptian wisdom. Eliah, when doing the ritual of resurrection spinned around the corpse and then after set his own body upon the dead body, eye with eye, mouth with mouth 3 times, 1 Kings 17:17 to 24. Joseph in Egypt clearly mentioned he was skilled in foreseeing the future in the cup (where drops of oil were added to the water to see the forms produced), Genesis 44:5, 15. The clothes or robs worn by apostle Paul served to do miracles, Acts 19: 11, 12.
A long tradition of Jewish prophets used Mambre trees to guess spiritual realms, it was precisely the hallucinogenic trees where Abraham saw 3 angels (Genesis 1 and another angel was seen by John Baptist's dad when he was next to incense (using hallucinogenic substance), Luke 1:8 to 11. Marijuana (joint) was used in Jewish oil of annointment called in Hebrew, kaneh-bosem and we know Egyptian mummies had cocaine and nicotine (imported from Peru!!!!?) in their bodies (not mere modern droppings as critics quickly said without fundament). The Bible says Satan corrupted Eve's mind faculties , 2 Corinthians 11:3.
The same chapter adds Satan disguises or make metamorphosis into light. The Greek word used for this metamorphosis is metaschematizo meaning that while "light" is phosphorus. That's interesting cos it hasn't been found anti-photon or anti-light particle so far, there's no dicotomy and many paranormal things like UFOs seem to be done like holograms.
In fact neurophysiologists and physicists have been saying the whole universe maybe a hologram with X number (1 followed by 100 zeros) of bits of entropic information like a program in God's Mind and our brain (with more parts and connections than atoms in the universe) behaves like having holographic memory. Read Michael Talbot's Holographic Universe and the issues is Scientific American, search about Jacob Bekenstein physicist, professor of theoretial Physics at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, recipient of Rotschild Prize and John Wheeler and Einstein's protege, physicist David Bohm, expert in quantum theory from London University and neurophysiologist Karl Pribram from Stanford University.
So, how many times the people have to know or heard about their favorite pets (birds, dogs, cats) that got ill or die when the owners got sick or die, sometimes even with anticipation? There's no machine to demonstrate cos that's science limitation. There's no Kirlian photo to demonstrate what the animals perceive and you have to be very narrow-minded to wait until science explains the know-how things men have been knowing for thousands of years! Sometimes the animals don't even want to enter in the room of its owner that passed away. Therefore, the conclusion is the bizarre entities maybe dwelling in something lile Planck dimension a trillion times smaller than a proton or maybe we are so tiny. We can't talk about hyperdimensional realm in physics and superstring without talking about hyperdimensional beings dwelling there. The Ets and bizarre things don't have to be into our dense and material "vision" or resemblance.
Look for instance the fractal design on wheat fields all over the world. They are done one day to another and it was eliminated the stupid idea they were made by ignorant farmers. It's there for everybody to see and we have even documents of balls of light upon those signs. What's that but a trick made by hyperdimensional creatures? Of course, you will have no idea what I'm talking about unless you read a book like Michio Kaku's Hyperspace. I'll try to explain but perhaps you'll learn more if you see a film like Hellriser and Cube II, Hypercube.

The number of Genesis chapter hidden by emoticon was 18 (eighteen).
I'll try to explain the hybrid gods with many faces. The physicist Kaku said Dali (Surrealism) and Picasso (Cubism) used the idea of Hypercube or Tesseract to represent the invisible hyperdmension. That's math. Click on "start" and then after swing the mouser in the rest of geometric designs:
www.cut-the-knot.com/ctk/Tesseract.shtml
Kaku said if you imagine a Flatlander person alive in a 2Dimensional paper (let's say a drawing of Popey the Sailor) and then draw a cross composed by 6 squares, if someone like us, having 3Dimensions (including HEIGHT which is the dimension lacking in Popey's flat paper-universe having only width and lenght) wants to make a cube made of that paper -like an Origami- Popey couldn't see the cube because when you bend the squares to lift up each one of them, you are bending them UP and that is precisely the HEIGHT third dimension his eyes can't see. Therefore Popey will witness each one of the 6 squares forming the cross dissapear step by step until a last square remains. Check chapter 3 of his book to see the graphics. I have to say Lenin participated in a debate about 4th Dimension and that exercised a good influence in ex USSR science. Fiodor Dostoi

О чём это всё...

In the Greek myth of Pandora there are some important things similar to Russian dogs with horns or wolf-men. Pandora was made of clay and her husband was Epimeteus (the name means "who thought after" they screwed up everything...like Adam in the Bible after Eve's covetous attitude...exactly like Pandora's curiosity and Chinese ideograms I set before). The name Pandora and Pandemonium comes from Greek goat-man Pan, faunus or satyr. The Bible mentions in Isaiah 34:14 the same satyr associated with sucubus (demon female) Lillith . The goat entity in Leviticus 16 was the goat offered to Azazel/Satan in the desert where these beings live. Satan actually in Jewish mythology fornicated with Eve and hence Cain was born (if anybody wants to open a thread about this I shall give full whola details using the Bible and Hebrew words used in Genesis to explain the so-called mystery). In fact the satyr entity has the name cos Hebrew se'irim. Zecharia 5:9 mentions women with wings of birds. Those are hyperdimensional realms.
Pandora (like in Laura Croft second film) uses a box were evil was spread through the planet. We see the same idea of hyperdimensional demons in the film Hellraiser, see my photolog:
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:47
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:48
The name of that Clive Barker terror specialist gave to the demons is Cenobites. The name comes from some Monks in the past!
Dali uses the hypercube in his famous painting Christus Hipercubus:
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:107
Picasso -according to physicist Michio Kaku interpretation- was trying to describe human beings as seen by an entity from 4th Dimension. They would see us like those photographs they take us when we are moving, it's like stop movement and time in a single frame. Imagine you move your arms like the wings of a bird and move your head both sides while someone takes you a photo:
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:104
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:105
I wrote to Michio Kaku and participated in his forum and said he was wrong because he forgot completely the ancient art of people who under special circumstances, in the right place, the right time, sometimes using hallucinogenic substances or under trance or using auto-hypnosis (I did objectively and I tell you: brain specialists usually haven't even written or drawing their own amnesic oniric experience every night but they are willing to accept Freud's unique vision, waw!). I tell you, these figures don't represent the entities point of view of us. Not at all! The ancient art Kaku ignored represented how these beings are in hyperdimensional dungeons! In Hare Krishna books representing their gods with many faces and arms, there's always missing the face BEHIND the head. Why? Because the paper is 2Dimensional flat! You need to use Dadaism art of Francis Picabia -and similar techniques- to represent that hyperdimension. Please watch these paintings:
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:102
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:103
http://fotolog.terra.com.br/inca:20
Another way to do that is drawing from one side of the paper or translucid material and draw two faces in front and other 2 faces at the back. When you see the drawing towards the light you can see the 4 faces simultaneously. Ancient people couldn't do that. So what did they do?
They added an extra dimensional art. How come? They converted the paintings (using profile faces like in Maya or Egyptian art) and they did sculptures. So,the people wonder why Great Pyramid had no hieroglyphs. The reason was mainly because that was a 3Dimensional hieroglyph in stone!
In dark secret chambers (where light couldn't enter but stimulated the melatonin from the brain) using blue lilly or opium (imported from Greece) or coca from Peru, incense, etc, the hieroglyphs became alive like watching that animated film Prince of Egypt. Do you remember the scene where Moses had a nightmare and hieroglyphs became like animated version themselves?That's exactly what happened but it was like plugging the cartoons directly into the brain much better than watchin' IMAX film in Canadian cinesphere in Toronto (wonderful indeed). Then the shamans and magicians could actually see what modern people believe in skepticism in the border of cynicism..it was merely "symbols" or "archetypes". The universal legends were not local myths, they always revealed a truth invisible to humans but not necessarily to animals.
To explain why the animals seem to be so strong and capable while we born so weak and survive just because of our intelligence requires to open another thread: the meaning of Adamic Sin but I don't think I would be incentivated to do it unless people is interested. I thought Russians were smart. Who knows....?
BTW: Kaku commited another mistake. He said Popey flat being in a flat paper-universe would see the cross of 6 squares dissapear until the final square in the middle. That's wrong. Because in that example, we, the 3Dimensional "gods" in order to bend the squares and lift them up each one step by step to create a origami paper-cube, we need to CUT the paper first. Kaku said nothing about this. Hence, Popey will never see the cross dissapearing. He could see the edges of the cross are breaking apart from his flat universe until finally there's a giant black hole in the shape of a cross. So, for him that would be like a Bermudas Triangle oddity. Then, after the flat paper-cross is taken out of the paper, then we can bend it but not while is still atached to the rest of the paper!!!!!
Of course, the managers of the forum of Michio Kaku got mad at me and since nobody could answer they decided to get rid of me. Typical!
The fact is in our universe WE ARE NOT WATCHING BUILDINGS DISSAPEAR or cars or beloved material objects. The phenomena we see is the opposite! We see things and beings appear, UFOs appearing and dissapearing, changing colors, size, shape, altering speed; signs in wheat fields, virgin Mary only for Catholics in the middle of the smell of roses and Sun distortion. That's hyperdimensional trick.
It's like Popey watching a design of Fred Flinstone done by my 3rd dimensional "invisible" hand from one time to another without warning. For Popet that would be equivalent to watching a ghost. If I drop ink that would be another "sighting". If I bend the paper-universe, Popey could walk endlessly and always reaching the exact point he started like one of Freddy Krueger's Nightmare on Elm Street.
I can burn Popey and his universe and that would be like a spontaneous combustion out from nothing. In fact, in one of Freddy Krueger's nightmares we see something really clever. We see an artist that was sucked to the very drawings and paper he was working with. Since the flat paper universe was black graffity and white paper, the whole scene was filmed in black and white and the man who was supposed to be 3Dimensional was converted into 2D flat paper and was chop off in pieces by Krueger whose life is the dreams and after all who can really say what the heck is a dream if our specialists can only measure Rapid Movement of the Eyes in micro-cycles that put together are about 2 hours of "film" per night but YOU KNOW the objective ticking WHILE YOU ARE DREAMING has nothing to do with what machines tell. You suffer, you are happy, you have pleasure, sometimes you can have flashbacks of future and past and you wake up and you don't know what is dream or reality. You could understand me better if you practice Mind Control Silva Method, I tell you, then you will understand better films like 13th Floor, Truman Show, The Cell, Matrix, Tron, Dark City, Pi. What happens is like Gurdiev said: people are usually unconscious even to the fact they forgot about themselves when they were reading this words. You forgot the movement of your foot, the smell in the air, the position and ache of your back because at this very moment you became your eyes, like being swallowed by them, you didn't pay attention to anything else, you were distracted like when you don't pay attention to how you drive. First day you saw the mirror, heard the horns, watch the neighbor cars, watch the possible hole in the highway, the position of arms and feet and now you memorized everything. Now you do like a auto-robot or zombie, dead-alive, drive listening radio and the bla-bla of the copilot, smoking with the elbow upon the window, forgot everything. That's the way you take breakfats, make sex, watch hypnotized tv news and believe politicians lie, that's the way you rapidly feed yourself and do your job and study what somebody else thought was gonna be succesful. Clap-clap-clap. You are not even alive. You're chess piece of game in holographic universe, you're a Chaplinesque frame in a recorded film thinking is alive and maybe thinking time is passing fast due to a psicological tension, completely unaware the earth maybe spinning faster and the cesium watches and atoms are affected by gravity in a day that maybe was reduced to 16 hours in a Milky Way spinning faster and changing position, somebody forward faster the laws of Fibonacci math and the film is going faster. In this flat film you deny other 4 faces in a head sort of creature maybe watches you from extradimension you were not even aware. You thought you had the remote control instead of realizing you were just part of the character recorded in a "film" and your script and whole mankind was already written long ago. You remember and have the inner feeling you knew something is odd. You know why?
Because the "history film" maybe is running backwards like the film Memento and everything is in reverse, from the end to the beginning and scientist Stephen Hawkins said we can't remeber the future cos the electrochemic energy from our neurons travel in the direction of the Big Bang and hence submitted to entropy chaos. Yet, according to Kabalalh God used a Tsim Tsum or Contracted. It's like Hindu Brahma contracting Himself and that's scientist theory of Big Crunch, in this case God collapsing with the Universe. We would have to discuss another thread about Big Bang but the idea is: maybe we are remembering the future and forgot our past. That could explain why centuries before Mars satelite were discovered, the author of Gulliver mentioned the 2 satelites and rare unnatural orbits and other stunning details today corroborated. Maybe.

N

I'm sorry chinitial, excuse me for being lazy, but I'm not going to read 10 pages worth of writing from some random person. You should try summarizing your main points instead, or try having some cliff notes made of your book that you are writing on this forum.

Need no excuse for being lazy, just pay attention how many times people enjoy reading the same repetitive things and many pages of futile information (sometimes more than 10 pages) but they choose to ignore merely 2 pages of things a bit tougher to digest. I know, I know, this is not a task for 99% of the lazy people, only the ones who can or are able to digest. The remaining 1%. You're not included in that 1% of course due to the reason you clearly said, laziness.
In other thread talking about how can we learn Russian "without" grammar is good to have someone inteligent or even clever than me in order to talk, is good to meet people that are not only the opposite of lazy but also smart enough to even disagree with you in educated or polite manner, is good to have a chat with people who can add things.