[quote=Kirill2142][quote=basurero] Destruction. In Russian = уничтожение. In Spanish = destrucci
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[quote=Kirill2142][quote=basurero] Destruction. In Russian = уничтожение. In Spanish = destrucci
[quote=laxxy][quote=Kirill2142][quote=basurero] Destruction. In Russian = уничтожение. In Spanish = destrucci
well chinese is hard for everybody, so there is some fairness :)
[quote=Kirill2142][quote=laxxy][quote=Kirill2142][quote=basurero] Destruction. In Russian = уничтожение. In Spanish = destrucci
Итог:
Бросайте это дело, ребята. Не учите Великий и Могучий Русский Язык - он оооочень сложный. Учите китайский - китайцев много, будет с кем поговорить.
:lol: :lol: :lol:
I'm kiddin'
but Chinese has a lot with word order and intonation. besides, cases/adjective endings/etc. aren't hard once you get used to them. building vocabulary is actually more of a challenge.
Sometimes it oversimplifies it though. You get a simple sentence but it is so ambiguous that you can't tell what it means anyway. LolQuote:
well Chinese has no gender, no cases, no verb tense, no declensions of any kind afaik... That should simplify a few things...
Check it out:Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirill2142
"A Russian woman in a Mandarin contest in Shanghai was so good that she swept judges off their feet. They made an exception to the planned 12 winners (all Chinese) so she could enter the national final in Beijing, says Yang Fan."
FULL STORY
Good girl! :thumbs: But she's rather exclusion than ruleQuote:
Originally Posted by RavinDave
Hhehe-he ... she may be the "exception" to the rule, but I can tell you that she sure has the gang at ChinesePod.com impressed. They think that Russians must have a preternatural talent for language.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirill2142
She studied 2 years, then spent a brief time in China and was speaking Mandarin better than most natives.
That sort of makes me think that all this fuss about "the toughest language" is silly. In the end, we psych ourselves out and over-analyze everything. Kids don't do that and that's why they pick up language much easier than adults.
"better than most natives"? what do you mean by that?Quote:
Originally Posted by RavinDave
native = native speaker; someone who speaks it from birth as their 1st languageQuote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
Maybe "most" is a bit too strong -- but it is widely reported that her Mandarin fluency and pronunciation is almost indistinguishable from that of someone born into the language and speaking it all their life. It is said that her pronunciation (in particular) is even better than many Mandarin Chinese.
Even if the Chinese newspaper accounts are exaggerating her ability, it still illustrates that a foreigner wishing to speak Chinese does not need to be as intimidated at the prospect as they very often are. Indeed, making that point was her entire motivation for entering the contest.
That I can believe, I think it is achievable in any language if one really works hard for that purpose. But I don't think it's possible to speak better than a native, like it's hardly possible for something to be wetter than water.Quote:
Originally Posted by RavinDave
Of course her style might be more eloquent than that of a less-educated native Chinese speaker, but I would not really lump that together with the language ability itself.
i think its possible. i have heard plenty of uneducated English people speak and its not just a question of eloquence. they make grammatical errors and can have poor vocabulary and even make collocation errors. i think for a medium-well educated person with motivation and a drive to really speak well its fully possible to speak better than an uneducated native.
True, native speakers do not always speak in perfectly correct language, and they do not have to; their colloquialisms, grammatical mistakes, and other things do not mean that they have a poor command of the language; they just speak a different variety of it. These mistakes never suggest that the person is not speaking in his native language and are quite different from those made by foreigners.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lt. Columbo
I would always say "ja s Kieva" rather than "ja iz Kieva" in a conversation in Russian, I may use "sjudoj/tudoj" sometimes -- these are nonstandard and foreign learners would be better off not imitating that, but really I do not consider them a problem. Such things should not be taken into account when comparing natives' and foreigners' speech.
Although, thinking that the lady in question is from Shanghai, and this is a Mandarin contest -- it actually makes more sense, as Mandarin was perhaps a foreign language for most participants there.
Of course this is not to belittle her achievement, which is really quite amazing.
Very bad, this is an uncorrect way of speaking in Russian and normally means that the person is uneducated. Usually, people speaking like that considered to come from vilages.Quote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
Very true. I never thought about that. These people probably wouldn't be able to understand an intellectual debate on TV or something like that, but then again if you stuck the debaters on a construction site I doubt they would be able to understand all the uneducated slang and colloquialisms....Quote:
True, native speakers do not always speak in perfectly correct language, and they do not have to; their colloquialisms, grammatical mistakes, and other things do not mean that they have a poor command of the language; they just speak a different variety of it. These mistakes never suggest that the person is not speaking in his native language and are quite different from those made by foreigners.
I haven't come from a village but everyone around me has always spoken like that. And it annoys "potomstvennaja gorodskaja intellihentsyja" from Moscow which is good :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Remyisme
Не понялаQuote:
"sjudoj/tudoj"
"Сюдой"/"тудой" вместо сюда/туда.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra
Например: - Не иди той дорогой, вот сюдой ближе.
Идем лучше вот сюдой.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra
It's a fine word imo, it carries a very distinctive shade of meaning that can't be equally easily expressed by other means, it's only fault that it is, yes, currently not present in the dictionaries and is still a sign of an uneducated speech.
Эт чё, на Украине такая фишка, да?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
Ни разу в жизни не слышала
Ага, было дело, но только разговорное. Как сейчас, не знаю.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kirill2142
Зато Даль слышал. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra
"ТУДА
ТУДА, туды нареч. тудака, тудыкась, в то место, в тот бок, сторону, противопол. сюда или оттуда.
Поди туда, неведомо куда.
Ни туда, ни сюда.
Не туда несено, да тут уронено.
Он не туда (или не так) глядит.
Сам на ладан дышит - а туда же!
Тудою нареч. той стороной, тем путем, дорогой.
Сюдою поближе, а тудою дорога получше. ... "
Тоже, небось, поморщился :PQuote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
Не, это сугубо местное. Опрос присутствующих на работе в 9 вечера сотрудников показал, что из них тоже никто ни разу не слышал такого.
Хм. Может действительно украинизм, но я и с россиянами часто общаюсь, и никаких проблем с пониманием таких вещей никогда не замечал.Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra
Недавно, правда, меня реально потрясло, когда девушка из России не поняла смысл выражения "вышивает на каблуках". Как выясняется, не все местные выражения очевидны как таковые, может конечно и тудой/сюдой к ним относятся, но я бы в жизни такого не подумал.
Vow. Век живи, век учись. Ты откуда?Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra
Может для тебя и фраза "пошел я было в кино" может означать "хотел пойти, но передумал и остался дома"?
Ооо, пошел было - фюр иммер.
Не, я в противоположном лагере.Quote:
"хотел пойти, но передумал и остался дома"
Моя среда обитания - все, что восточнее Волги.
Я тоже первый раз это слышу, так же как и "из-под" пятницы суббота". :xQuote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
Понятно :) Меня этот момент тогда тоже очень удивил, сюдой/тудой это все-таки лексика, она более изменчива от региона к региону, а там грамматика, и довольно-таки фундаментальная концепция...Quote:
Originally Posted by Indra
Украинизмы хорошо заметны когда у них есть очевидный (и отличающийся от русского) аналог в украинском языке. Но, конечно, к ним отличия разговорного русского языка на Украине и в России не сводятся, да и не могут сводиться -- такие отличия наверняка даже между российскими регионами есть... (do you have any idea what "айдате" means? ;))
Когда я в 4 классе уехал с родителями в Монголию и пошел там в русскую школу, меня обилие незнакомых жаргонных слов очень удивляло. Really made me feel different for a while, just like the brown school uniform :)
Вероятно, это достаточно позднее выражение, поэтому оно вам и не знакомо... Оно очень распространенное было, да и сейчас по-моему тоже.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
Про из-под пятницы субботу я пока еще и сам не слышал :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
Возможно это потому что люди понимают что ваше "Тудой" значит туда и просто не поправляют вас однако же сами они так не говорят.
Я например тоже не понимаю что это значит, первый раз такое слышу, вы хоть объясните...Quote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
Я тоже не знаю, что такое "вышивает на каблуках"! :oQuote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
Про пятницу и субботу слышал много раз - так говорила моя мама про то, как я одевался :) . Сейчас не говорит - вырос, одеваться стал лучше :wink:Quote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
"Вышивает на коблука" не слышал, но, может быть, догадался бы по контексту
Can you tell me where r you from exactley?Quote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
И моя :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Kirill2142
I am from Kiev.Quote:
Originally Posted by Remyisme
words "from Moscow" in my quote above were really unnecessary though, we have our own intellihentsyja who would get just as annoyed :)
I think you would have probably understood it in context, expressions like these are normally pretty straightforward... which was one reason I was surprised the girl in question had difficulty with it...Quote:
Я например тоже не понимаю что это значит, первый раз такое слышу, вы хоть объясните...Quote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
does "почесала на каблуках, вышивать по Крещатику(1)" sound clear enough to you? :)
(1) A central street in Kiev
Quote:
Originally Posted by laxxy
Yea, I'm sure. :D Not everyone from Kiev speaks that way, I met a lot of Kievians here in Israel, but not all of them say тудой. What I did notice they more tend to say ложить instead of положить/класть.