Thread: Visa's, citizenship, I need to know

Originally Posted by N

And drink a frikkin' cold cola to get cool.

Oh I'm cool.

Don't confuse amused facetious ranting with genuine anger

Originally Posted by scotcher

Originally Posted by N

And drink a frikkin' cold cola to get cool.

Oh I'm cool.

Don't confuse amused facetious ranting with genuine anger

You sure? I still can't get over this much red -hehe. In fact, I have an offer to you: you rewrite this post of yours, but in Russian, and I'll correct your mistakes. Then I'll flame you back in English, and you correct mine. This sounds like a much more productive dialogue, diznit?

Originally Posted by scotcher

I accept that my views are wholy subjective and may not be representative of the overall situation in the country as a whole. Furthermore, I fully accept that there may be similar problems in my own country of origin for visiting foreigners. My post is in no way meant as a slander against the nation or people of the Russian Federation, or to make an unfavourable comparison between Russia and my own country of origin.

I propose that we all use Scotcher's disclaimer as our signatures from now on.

Originally Posted by DDT

I propose that we all use Scotcher's disclaimer as our signatures from now on.

I tried. It is too long. Scotcher, can you summarize your points in a prefereably 5 word sentence? Thanks!

Five words? How is the following one for starters:

______________________________

Never argue with medical condition

Why is is that everyone has decided to pick on Scotcher today? The man has only posted up an opinion on what his views are, the next thing I see is everyone and his mother is sticking the boot in. Personally, I am looking forward to my trip to Russia next month and no doubt i shall probably have a grumble or two at some issues there just as I do here. I will tell you a few grumbles I have of the UK............car tax, council tax, and taxes almost for wiping your own backside! there is lots more I can grumble about, if there is anyone who has not got a single complaint about his own country here is either telling porkies or they walk around with their eyes shut!

The reason Sotcher wrote the sentence in red ( I think ) is to drum it in to your heads some of you people here obviously read to much into what has been typed and not between the lines, anyway, I have said my peace.....us Brits do stick together now and again!

So they busted a night club, eh? Big smegging deal. As if we didn't know the sort of things that go on in those dens of sin. God bless our boys in uniform for tackling the problem so efficiently.

P.S. So you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time? What were you doing there anyway? They don't just bust a nightclub if there's absolutely no reason for it. So much drugdealing goes on there that I'd support their effort to crack down on such clubs any day of the week.

Can you do us all a favour please vending machine and just put a coin in it will you, you should change your handle from vending machine to negative machine........its a shame really, I bet you could be a really nice person if you tried!

C'mon LM, wasn't it Brits who invented insulting each other as a way of having a good time? You don't by any chance take it seriously, do you?

luvmonsta From now on your negative posts in threads will be ignored. If you have a problem and wish to talk about it (or you need a hand with your punctuation), you're welcome to pm me.

P.S. Talk about a cheesy nick...

Are you an accident-prone person, JB? I don't remember a single post from you where you were satisfied with a service you had received or where you had got something done quickly and efficiently. Isn't it strange that shit always happens to you?

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

So they busted a night club, eh? Big smegging deal.

Indeed.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

As if we didn't know the sort of things that go on in those dens of sin.

Yeah, dancing, drinking and having a good time usually.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

God bless our boys in uniform for tackling the problem so efficiently.

Yeah, and God bless your banana-state justice system for processing them all so efficiently eh? No point wasting time with those namby-pamby western liberal ideas such as giving the accused a chance to defend himself, or even telling him that he'd been charged with something in the first place.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

P.S. So you happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time?

Yep, seems like it.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

What were you doing there anyway?

We were actually in the process of taking off our coats and handing them in to the cloak room, since, as I said, we'd only just walked in through the door when the fuzz busted in, fully masked-up (which I believe has been illegal for some time now, but hey, this is Russia). Had we been allowed to, our plan was to get blind drunk and the stagger home. Yuri, being a single fella, no doubt had hoped to get himself laid too, though myself, being a married bloke, wouldn't have dreamt of it.

You know, the usual stuff people do in nightclubs in, oh, most countries.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

They don't just bust a nightclub if there's absolutely no reason for it.

Apparently one of the OMON boys got himself killed the week before, so they were looking for the culprits by randomly busting nightclubs in the hope they'd catch some sort of lead. I've no idea whether or not this story is true, but it is what was reported on the local TV news show later in the week, thanks to the fact that someone or other important got caught up in a bust on another nighclub the day after our one.

Originally Posted by VendingMachine

So much drugdealing goes on there that I'd support their effort to crack down on such clubs any day of the week.

Absolutely. Much easier to just bust everyone too, rather than bother with any details such as whether or not anyone actually had any drugs on them. Due process is for whimps, right?

So, I've answered all of your questions. Any chance you could answer the one I asked you on page 3? Or shall we all just draw our own conclusions?

Actually VM, @@@@ very rarely happens to me. Anywhere I go in the world people treat me well and respect me. But the truth about OVIR is that it is one of the most inefficient and miserable government departments in Russia for anybody who goes there. A lot of Russians have foreign family or friends and spend countless wasted hours and rubles in OVIR.

And Scotcher, you are so lucky your "experience" wasn't in Moscow. The police force in Moscow is so very dedicated to the fight against drugs that they are experts at finding narcotics on people that have never seen or touched a narcotic in their life.

It's always a difficult assessment to make, of course, but I'd say Russia's bureaucracy is definitely one of the most difficult I've experienced. In total I have visited or spent time in something like 23-25 countries (sorry I can't remember the exact number), and have lived in at least 4 long term; I say this to try to put a little more weight behind my opinion.

Firstly, Russia's location-by-location registration procedure, even for tourists, is unique in my experience, and disgraceful. It's so ludicrous that even Communist China wouldn't demand such a thing of its visitors.

Secondly, what I found special about Russia is the sense one gets that nobody really wants to help you as a customer, client, citizen or tourist - and for foreigners it's the worst. Russians themselves often complain about it but they tend not to realize that things are even more restrictive for visitors (OK, not always true - as a visitor, some doors will be opened to you, but only at great financial cost). The culture of service in the private sector is still very weak, and correspondingly even weaker in the public sector, to the extent that it crosses over into negative territory - they actively try to make your life as difficult as possible.
There is nothing unreasonable about visas, paperwork or queueing per se, of course.

But here's an example which you might find interesting:
In Beijing, travellers often arrive looking to get a visa to enter Russia so that they can take the famous Trans-Siberian railway into Russia and possibly onto Europe. When they arrive at the Russian embassy, the officials look at their Chinese visas, and if they find that the person does not have Chinese residency but only a tourist visa in China, they are refused. These sad travellers, if they are not dissuaded, will have to head all the way south to Shanghai to find a Russian consulate that will actually issue a simple 30 day Russian tourist visa.
They don't actually want you to come to Russia and spend your tourist dollars.

Russia has basically no service economy (if you want to disagree, don't forget that Russia is not just Moscow) and this permeates all the way through the culture - there is a much lower willingness to serve.

If you don't believe me, try phoning a hotel or a University or a government office in Russia, and then in the UK or US and note the difference in how they respond (once they answer).

Originally Posted by waxwing

Russia has basically no service economy (if you want to disagree, don't forget that Russia is not just Moscow) and this permeates all the way through the culture - there is a much lower willingness to serve.
.

Hmm.....sounds wonderful almost like my home country, Australia. Try getting service there in your average restaraunt.

In America Russia is not considered a hot vacation destination. When Yanks want to spend some serious tourist $s they head for friendly territory. But Russian government workers are not just a pain in the **S for their neighbors, a few expats and a summer crop of tourists, but for any country that wants to do business there. Most businesses aren't going to slog through Russian red tape, bribes and rudeness to set up shop when plenty of other countries are friendly and put out the welcome mat.
Unless Russians themselves see this attitude as a huge problem that they themselves need to change, it will continue to be a detriment to their economy and the country will never be successful on a large scale in the world market.

I'm sorry JB if this comes to you as a bit of a rude awakening, but the thing is that most Russians don't want foreign businesses to come to Russia, thank you very much. All we get from Western businesses is substandard service and high prices.

Russia has basically no service economy (if you want to disagree, don't forget that Russia is not just Moscow) and this permeates all the way through the culture - there is a much lower willingness to serve.

Exactly. We did away with servants in 1917. Since then people are expected to wipe their own backsides. If you want to be pampered by paid sycophants, stay in the West. People in Russia are very proud, please remember that. Next time you scowl at a waiter/salesperson/bureaucrat try to come up with a good reason why he/she should grovel before your royal highness.

Haha.

So, to surmise:

"We don't want your filthy foreign investment or stinking tourist dollars, we want to sit in our squalid and rapidly decaying 3rd-world armpit of a country and wallow in our bitterness at losing the cold war. If it's civilisation you want, go somewhere else!"

I don't know what's funnier, that VM's attitude is so ridiculous, or that from all the evidence he seems to be right!

Russia is not a 3rd world country - we are approx. 50 years ahead of most other countries in terms of humanitarian values and rocket science - and we did not loose the cold war - it never ended, my boy. And no, we don't want your tourist dollars - do you seriously believe that a huge country like Russia gives a toss about a few droplets of your greenbacks in the ocean of the mighty rouble? Give me a break, scotcher. And no one's wallowing, everyone's celebrating for we are jubilant for many reasons (none of which you will understand, though). And this is not my attitude, for I speak on behalf of millions of Russians. As I sit in front of my computer, my fellow countrymen are doing your countries - raping and pillaging through your holiday resorts, planeloads and busloads of rude cossacks with their fat wives and screaming children, drinking, debauching, shocking the locals with their uncouth rustic behaviour. Russian partizans in swimming trunks, they aren't at your resorts to satisfy their lust for snorkling, they they are there to do your civiklization. I've spoken to many Russian tourists on their rampages in Europe - those chaps have absolutely no respect for your countries, your cultures. It's very very sad but it's true - we are doing your countries in. I can understand your aggression, scotcher, but I'm afraid I can't do anything about it.