Thread: USA government gone rogue (well... not exactly. L.)

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Could they do it without weapons and attacking government buildings? Well, Crimea did and that worked.

I would suggest that Crimea didn't "do" anything and a large percentage of people did not support this annexation. It's a complicated mess for a lot of people now.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Btw, did you catch that? Poroshenko is offering amnesty but only for the peaceful protesters. Lol! That's like offering amnesty to people who sat at home watching TV. So why would peaceful protesters need amnesty?

This is pretty standard for a politician to say. It's exactly what the Yanokovich government said to protesters in the Maidan (which occurred after a ban of all organized protests, which really incensed people and they had to repeal the ban).

Originally Posted by bytemare

I would suggest that Crimea didn't "do" anything and a large percentage of people did not support this annexation. It's a complicated mess for a lot of people now.
This is pretty standard for a politician to say. It's exactly what the Yanokovich government said to protesters in the Maidan (which occurred after a ban of all organized protests, which really incensed people and they had to repeal the ban).

The Crimeans voted to join Russia. I saw the voting and I saw the ballots. So yeah, they did something. It's Russian soil now and it will be Russian soil forever. Unless Ukraine wants to declare war against Russia?
If there's anyone left in Crimea that doesn't support it's country (Russia), they know where to find suitcases and the realtors in Ukraine will be very happy to sell them one of their bombed out houses. Oh, they will need life insurance too since the Ukrainian army kills anything that moves.
It took years to build Rome so I never expected Crimea to be rebuilt overnight. But the Crimeans are strong, resourceful, and proud. I would never expect anything less from Russians... unfortunately, I have learned to expect a lot less from gay Americans...

And yeah, politicians do say a lot of meaningless things. But no worries about the rights to protest. President Neanderthal of Ukraine will be very happy to send his tanks and attack helicopters to any protests in his country. They must sell a ton of life insurance there...

After listening to President Schizoid of Ukraine and after seeing what's happened since he was elected:
No, I don't believe they can achieve their goals in Donetsk (or anywhere else in Ukraine) without violence. And I don't believe that any protester in eastern Ukraine will be given amnesty. The new President of Ukraine is:

1. A liar. Or schizophrenic.
2. A coward. He refuses to talk to Putin unless the US and the EU are holding his hand.
3. An ultra-nationalist. He claimed he wasn't but that was another lie.

I would be lying if I said that I didn't believe in violence - sometimes it's the only solution. But I'm not a coward that hides behind a parliament, the US, and the EU. So maybe I should start my own country and annex to Russia...
Islands for Sale Worldwide - Private Islands Online

I had some issues about the vultures but they do look a lot like Obama, Kerry, McCain, and Ashton. So yeah. I've also started sharing my objections to the situation in Ukraine at western forums.



EDIT. SPECIAL NOTE FOR VICE PRESIDENT BIDEN - Have fun trying to get gas from the Russians in southern Cyprus. Lol!

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

If there's anyone left in Crimea that doesn't support it's country (Russia), they know where to find suitcases and the realtors in Ukraine will be very happy to sell them one of their bombed out houses.

Just out of curiosity, if you lived say in Montana, and your state was annexed by Canadians, would you prefer to become a true Canadian, or move out to another state?

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

The Crimeans voted to join Russia. I saw the voting and I saw the ballots. So yeah, they did something. It's Russian soil now and it will be Russian soil forever. Unless Ukraine wants to declare war against Russia?

How did you possibly see this? Really, unless you were there, which I highly doubt, then you didn't see anything. And if you were there, I'd like to know how you did it.

Originally Posted by bytemare

How did you possibly see this? Really, unless you were there, which I highly doubt, then you didn't see anything. And if you were there, I'd like to know how you did it.

You know, sometimes (even most of the times) you don't need to see something to know that it exists. Just a quick heads up.

Originally Posted by iCake

You know, sometimes (even most of the times) you don't need to see something to know that it exists. Just a quick heads up.

I agree with you

In the above case, he said he saw it. This would lead one to believe he was there, which I was calling into question.

Originally Posted by bytemare

I agree with you

In the above case, he said he saw it. This would lead one to believe he was there, which I was calling into question.

Haha, smart ass

1. A liar. Or schizophrenic.
2. A coward. He refuses to talk to Putin unless the US and the EU are holding his hand.
3. An ultra-nationalist. He claimed he wasn't but that was another lie.

He has just got the POWER. He will do anything to keep it, and will not repeat the mistakes Yanukovich made.
I will be very surprised if he would be able to abandon the post in near 10-20 years and wouldn't assign the successor.

So maybe I should start my own country and annex to Russia...

That made my day

EDIT: (Lampada, you may delete this part, but I just have to say this). I may have had doubts about the efficiency of Russian propaganda, but they're definitely gone now, as I look at the guy name UhOhXplode.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

That made my day

EDIT: (Lampada, you may delete this part, but I just have to say this). I may have had doubts about the efficiency of Russian propaganda, but they're definitely gone now, as I look at the guy name UhOhXplode.

А может, на тебя воздействовала украинская пропаганда?

Originally Posted by Lampada

А может, на тебя воздействовала украинская пропаганда?

Even if there's one and if it did, it appears it has nothing on the Russian one. For I'm very far from encouraging Ukraine to conquer new lands, or buying Ukraine new lands for my own money. =))

So if it's so common with anti-Russian people in Crimea, how come we haven't seen any demonstrations, any uprising, and no stories with people sobbing about how terrible they feel about being forced into Russian citizenship?

All we can see are people celebrating and generally being positive. Nobody can force people to go out in the street, wave flags, smile and look happy.

We all know that Western media would LOVE to run a a story about somebody on Crimea who had been mistreated by "Putin" or had some form of legitimate complaint.

I've seen nothing, and assume the reason is that there is nothing to report.

Crimea is open for journalists, anybody from there can blog or post on the internet. Yet there seem to be no complaints coming from there.

I'm sure there IS someone, who's genuinely unhappy about it on principle, i.e. they don't like Russia, Putin or whatever. But other than "I don't agree with the majority", there don't seem to be much to complain about.

I.e. if there had been negative events happening we would see:

I.e. "Gays in Crimea persecuted" or "Grandmother 85 is forced to abandon her house by Russian military" or "Ukrainian speakers terrorised in Sevastopol", "Crimean blogger interrogated by Police about anti-Russia comments"

....or something like that. But nothing like this is happening.
I think there is every reason to believe that the figures from the referendum were correct and a very large majority of the population are happy about it.

Otherwise I'd like to see a story of somebody who is legitimately unhappy for a good reason. I.e., their life is worse today, because of Crimea's annexation to Russia.

I do get that the Crimean Tatars were not 100% happy with events, and that most of them did not vote. A minority of 10-15% - and I imagine there are lots of mixed marriages etc.
But in all honesty, they are no more Ukrainian than they are Russian; there are other Tatars in Russia, who are fine, as Russian citizens. Russia seems genuinely committed to making sure that their interests are being assured. They won't be any worse off. Can understand that they have historical grievances relating to the way they were treated by Stalin etc. But that is history and at some point you have to move on. RU is not the same country that mistreated them, and Stalin mistreated lots of people not just them. Plus, nobody is stopping them from keeping their UA citizenship, alternatively leaving the peninsula. Really, I don't see any reason to get worked up about their situation.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Just out of curiosity, if you lived say in Montana, and your state was annexed by Canadians, would you prefer to become a true Canadian, or move out to another state?

Well, I do like cold climates but no, I seriously doubt I could get happy living in Alberta or Saskatchewan with their Mennonite culture, lol. Try Washington State. I could probably deal with British Columbia so if they have decent brokers and lawyers then yeah, I could adapt.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

That made my day
EDIT: (Lampada, you may delete this part, but I just have to say this). I may have had doubts about the efficiency of Russian propaganda, but they're definitely gone now, as I look at the guy name UhOhXplode.

Now I'm curious. Would you have the same reaction if I said I wanted to buy an island and annex to France? Sweden? How about Taiwan or Switzerland? And you are aware that most islands are cheaper than a decent house, right? A lot of those islands are cheaper than a one-off Lamborghini, lol.
Oh, but people are buying all that propaganda! zOOmg! Horrors!

When I was little, I believed that Iraq was an evil empire that wanted to nuke America. I believed that Hawaii was one of our States because they wanted to be part of America. And I believed that everything our country did was to make the world a better place to live in. But maybe it's more about what I didn't believe.
Yeah, there's anti-Russian talk in the US. But how about the Russian woman who taught me how important it is to be honest. She was at our house almost every day and I learned a lot from her. And how about the Russian couple that taught me how to pronounce Russian words. And how about...

Do you want the whole list? None of that was propaganda. It was all good advice. The propaganda was on the TV and it could switched off. Real-life doesn't have a remote.
So maybe I've just heard more truth from Russians than I have from Americans?
So now we're gonna free up those poor Ukrainians from the evil Russians! Excuse me if I can't see Russians as being evil. And yeah, those Ukrainians look real happy about what we did - they're hiding in their houses. And the Ukrainians in the east half of Ukraine are just being bombed and killed. That's not propaganda, it's real-life and it's all over the news.

I watched an old movie called "The In-Laws" and I googled something I heard - "Bay of Pigs". That's when I learned just how much our country would do to destabilize a government it didn't like. Btw, did you know that the CIA tried to assassinate Castro 10 times? Cuba wasn't a threat. So, our country is a lot like the Muslim extremists - believe what we believe or die!
How about we have our government and Cuba has it's government so no issues? How about peace if we haven't been attacked?

Anyway, our country has a huge statue off the New York coast that invites immigrants to our country. The EU demands that European countries accept immigrants.
That means that migrating to other countries is not only acceptable, but also very politically correct.
And since I don't require the freedom to watch gay sex parades and I'm not a political activist - but I am an Orthodox Christian - then no, I don't see any connection between propaganda and moving to Russia. Only gay and political activists have issues with geopolitical borders, I don't. But I will want any kids I have to be in a stable culture and safe from western "global conquest" extremism, gay propaganda, and cultural urban warfare.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

I watched an old movie called "The In-Laws" and I googled something I heard - "Bay of Pigs". That's when I learned just how much our country would do to destabilize a government it didn't like. Btw, did you know that the CIA tried to assassinate Castro 10 times? Cuba wasn't a threat. So, our country is a lot like the Muslim extremists - believe what we believe or die!
How about we have our government and Cuba has it's government so no issues? How about peace if we haven't been attacked?

Being an @sshole government isn't about being just a different government. Look at Japan, India, Brazil, for instance. They're all unique in many ways, and they pretty much differ from what we expect to see in the American/European culture. And everyone's fine with that! No classified operations, no CIA involved, etc. So, it's not about being different and "not like us". The thing is, such regimes as Cuba, North Korea, Syria, Iran and certain others are a big misery for all those unlucky people who happen to be inside those countries, and a big disgrace for all humanity on the outside. It's a shame to have such dictatorships these days, and not do anything about it. So, something has to be done. Probably by those who can.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Now I'm curious. Would you have the same reaction if I said I wanted to buy an island and annex to France? Sweden? How about Taiwan or Switzerland? And you are aware that most islands are cheaper than a decent house, right? A lot of those islands are cheaper than a one-off Lamborghini, lol.
Oh, but people are buying all that propaganda! zOOmg! Horrors!

If I were to buy myself an island, I would run there my own custom state that would fit just right for me. So yeah, I find it a little weird when you buy stuff and then gift it to a country like that. The same would go for anyone buying a Lamborghini and "annexing" it to the Kremlin/White House property.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Being an @sshole government isn't about being just a different government. Look at Japan, India, Brazil, for instance. They're all unique in many ways, and they pretty much differ from what we expect to see in the American/European culture. And everyone's fine with that! No classified operations, no CIA involved, etc. So, it's not about being different and "not like us". The thing is, such regimes as Cuba, North Korea, Syria, Iran and certain others are a big misery for all those unlucky people who happen to be inside those countries, and a big disgrace for all humanity on the outside. It's a shame to have such dictatorships these days, and not do anything about it. So, something has to be done. Probably by those who can.

That's the most naive thing I've heard in my entire life. You made my day, thank you very much

You know, the American nation is the nation of saints, who cannot help but think about all the unfairness in the world, and, big surprise, that's all without even thinking of any benefit for themselves


P.S. Eric, you do know that what you wrote pretty much coincides with the stereotypic view of an average American??? If so, you're such a subtle troll. If not, then my condolences

The rogue behaviour of the US is hurting Europe in so many ways. Yet Europe continues to suck up to the US. So few are putting together the pieces and seeing that 1+1 is 2.

Here is another example: BBC News - Illegal EU migration surges as thousands flock to Italy

Illegal immigration of "asylum seekers" is a huge problem in the EU. There is virtually no route into Europe through labour immigration, for them.

They are people from poorer countries who would like to live in Western Europe. In some cases they are in trouble with the authorities, but most of the time, it is made up in order to make an asylum claim. Asylum laws means every claim must be investigated, while the person is forbidden from working and must be supported by the state.

The claimants themselves are often lying, and their countries of origin too, are unwilling or unable to assist. Many even lie about what country they are from. Investigations of claims take 2-3 years, sometimes longer with an appeal process.

Now almost ALL of the successful asylum seekers are from countries where the USA is behind the unrest or has actively got involved and triggered the situation:
Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Somalia, Yemen, Pakistan. Not only are these countries very negatively affected by the US agenda, but Europe has to pick up the fallout, in terms of millions of refugees.

After Ghaddafi was ousted in Libya - the main route from Africa into Europe is wide open. Ghaddafi did not allow people from other African countries into Libya for the purpose of illegally crossing to Europe, and prevented any people smugglers from operating. Libyans themselves usually had no strong reasons to leave.

Now, there are tent cities on the shores, of sub saharan Africans waiting to cross the Med, to Italy. While Italy itself has more than enough with its own problems and the people in towns where they land, are despairing. Same thing for Greece, with Syrians, Iraqis and Afghans. With all the problems in Ukraine, that route might open up more widely too - it's already in use.

Europe clashes with Russia over things like gay rights. That's a joke, and fabricated. The Russian view corresponds with the European view of the 1970s.
Meanwhile, those coming from Afghanistan or Somalia generally think that homosexuals should rightly be stoned alive, and even after 10-15 years in Germany, Scandinavia or UK, Somalian and other African parents routinely have their girls genitally mutilated.

The culture clash between people from rural Africa or tribal areas in Afghanistan/Pakistan, and on the other hand, Western Europeans could not be wider. Bitter and radicalised people from Iraq and Syria should not be in Europe either, but who can blame them for wanting to leave when their country is under siege by militant islamists with American guns and Saudi money?

If these countries were just LEFT ALONE, to develop at their own pace, in a way that works in their culture and historical context, they would be happy in their country. If a dictator runs a country in the Middle East, its not the US business! Or if it's socialist, muslim, vegetarian or feminst, or if they elect a pink elephant as their leader. Get it?!

But, no, the US has to force "democracy" on them, so it's easier to steal their natural reasources, like oil, and make sure that none of these countries grow into strong regional powers (Iran, omg, axis of "evil") or gets the idea to ally themselves with Russia or China.

Divide and conquer. And let the EU ("f---k them!") pick up the slap.

Originally Posted by Hanna

If these countries were just LEFT ALONE, to develop at their own pace, in a way that works in their culture and historical context, they would be happy in their country. If a dictator runs a country in the Middle East, its not the US business! Or if it's socialist, muslim, vegetarian or feminst, or if they elect a pink elephant as their leader. Get it?!

You probably never consider the possibility of a pink elephant electing himself and setting himself up as the one in charge and ultimately ordering the rest of the population to just go with it... But let's put it this way:

Why should rich people pay taxes that they don't benefit from? Who are those IRS guys to meddle with poor people's business and "help" them by taxing everyone? Those poor people are certainly better off left alone to continue developing in a way that's traditional for them. If those poor people who even have no daily food were left to develop at their pace, in a way that works in their financial context, they would obviously be much happier. So, all those responsible for that should stop "acting like Gods" and tax the rich people, for the well-being of the rest is none of their business. If they want to live miserable lives (and they do!), then just let them.

What do you say?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Being an @sshole government isn't about being just a different government. Look at Japan, India, Brazil, for instance. They're all unique in many ways, and they pretty much differ from what we expect to see in the American/European culture. And everyone's fine with that! No classified operations, no CIA involved, etc. So, it's not about being different and "not like us". The thing is, such regimes as Cuba, North Korea, Syria, Iran and certain others are a big misery for all those unlucky people who happen to be inside those countries, and a big disgrace for all humanity on the outside. It's a shame to have such dictatorships these days, and not do anything about it. So, something has to be done. Probably by those who can.

See iCake's response (^ above).
Did I miss something? Because I really don'r remember Obama, Kerry, McCain, or anyone else in the White House being Canonized. Seriously. So when did God command the White House to save the world from foreign governments they don't like?
There goes Separation of Church and State!

Originally Posted by Eric C.

If I were to buy myself an island, I would run there my own custom state that would fit just right for me. So yeah, I find it a little weird when you buy stuff and then gift it to a country like that. The same would go for anyone buying a Lamborghini and "annexing" it to the Kremlin/White House property.

Cool! But I'm not that political and I would want easy access to music venues, cafes, sports events, etc etc. But mostly it was just a meme. I mean, my brain just can't wrap around all the Russiophobia...
Tbh, I like huge cities and I'm the least xenophobic person I know. So Moscow would be awesome! Lots of lights and people and cool place to go!

Originally Posted by bytemare

How did you possibly see this? Really, unless you were there, which I highly doubt, then you didn't see anything. And if you were there, I'd like to know how you did it.

I was born in Crimea and me and dad visited every polling... Lol! J/k. I wasn't in SA for the 2010 World Cup matches either but I was watching the games. I was in a sandwich shop nomming a philly cheesesteak when Ghana knocked our team out of the games (they have TV's btw) and I heard Spain screaming when they got the Cup.
Live feeds of the Crimean vote were all over youtube. I was all over that too because somehow I just knew that if they won the vote then there wouldn't be any violence in Crimea.
Well, those voters looked seriously happy, there wasn't any violence (and there still isn't), and I haven't seen any huge protest marches or mobs in the western media. And trust me, if there were any extreme objections in Crimea it woulda been breaking news in the west.
So yeah, I totally do believe the vote happened and I even have pictures of some of the ballots. I also have pictures of ballots from the Donetsk referendum.

If these countries were just LEFT ALONE, to develop at their own pace, in a way that works in their culture and historical context, they would be happy in their country. If a dictator runs a country in the Middle East, its not the US business! Or if it's socialist, muslim, vegetarian or feminst, or if they elect a pink elephant as their leader. Get it?!

But, no, the US has to force "democracy" on them, so it's easier to steal their natural reasources, like oil, and make sure that none of these countries grow into strong regional powers (Iran, omg, axis of "evil") or gets the idea to ally themselves with Russia or China.

Divide and conquer. And let the EU ("f---k them!") pick up the slap.

Imagine what it would be like if a UhOhXplode sets up a “people’s republic” in Oklahoma and distracts the rogues from Washington with domestic affairs. The Axis of evil may decide that it is the utmost chance to step in. They may easily discard their differences and create a united front against Europe. As a result, you may end up living in a meat-free zone, forcefully worshiping Allah six times a day and working 80 hours a week for the sake of building communism on Mars, while listening feminist slogans all day long and living under the stern gaze of Pink Elephant from every wall to boot! How are you going to withstand such a threat without American aid and army? It sounds next to impossible. Remember, the Axis of evil is not slumbering and unless stopped they are adamant to implement their baleful wishes and mean desires! Imperialism seems to be your only chance for survival!

Originally Posted by diogen_

How are you going to withstand such a threat without American aid and army? It sounds next to impossible. Remember, the Axis of evil is not slumbering

I'll take my chances without America! The silly myth that it "saved" Europe from the Nazis is just nonsense propagated by Hollywood. The USSR would have got around to it, it would just have taken a bit longer. As for the ideology and the possible expansionism of the USSR after the war: That also didn't worry me then, as a child, any more than modern Russia does today. It turned out that my country's only two major incidents with the USSR were caused in connection with US involvement. Plus, after the radical Bolsheviks and Stalin, what's scary about the USSR? I even visited on holidays in my childhood. Quirky and different, no shopping destination.. But not scary. But according to the US at the time, the scariest place on earth.

The whole idea with NATO is a bit like a Mafia protection scheme...!

I remember when people in the UK were genuinely expected to support invasion of Iraq, and send troops, because "Saddam's nukes could reach London". How totally proposterous! And then it turned out that he didn't even have any nukes. And the reason why he would randomly target London was never explained either. Makes 0 logical sense.
And oh yes, North Korea could *maybe* reach Hawaii with one of their nukes, that they may or may not have. Never mind the fact that there is absolutely no logical reason for them to do it, and they never saidthat they would.

—Japan has tried to get the US to leave Okinawa island for decades, but it hangs on like a leech, against the wishes of the locals and the Japanese government.
—Afghanistan won't sign an extension of US bases, but they won't take no for an answer and probably made sure that somebody who'll sign the agreement won the Afghan election
—Germans loathe it, but because of the war stigma, they can't speak up. Despite the fact that modern Germany has the most peace-loving and anti-war population of all of Europe.

I don't see why the US can't just leave the rest of the world alone. Or if it must meddle in other countries, meddle in bordering countries, i.e. Canada and Mexico. That's at least somewhat understandable.

But across the Atlantic or the other side of the earth?! There is no excuse other than imperialism, general evilness and greed!

Originally Posted by Eric C.

You probably never consider the possibility of a pink elephant electing himself

Not my business, and not yours. As long as its not a direct threat, it's not our business. And no country in the Middle East or Africa is a realistic threat to Europe at present time.

And the fact is: Iraq is a total dump today. Dangerous, criminal, full of violent and dangerous gangs. Syria was considerably better before the Western backed uprising. It really wasn't bad.

Likewise Libya in many ways was the most advanced nation in North Africa. Afghanistan today is an extremely dangerous and violent place. Marginally better for women, maybe, but at what price? Anyway, it's not for us to dictate, how Afghans should live their lives, in their country. It's arrogant to think we understand their culture and history.

And saving women was just an invented reason to meddle there anyway. It sounds good, and it's hard to challenge.
There are plenty of places in Africa where women have it as bad or worse than it was for women under the Taliban. But because there are no oil pipeline or strategic importance, those African women are left to their own devices.