Thread: Is there such a thing as a "Vagabond Law" ? - Plea

Dobry, thanks for those links you sent me. I'm going through them right now. I never thought about him actually traveling to Russia to meet her. I wonder if that thought ever crossed his mind. But from what JB says it could be a bad proposition all together.

So much info to digest here. Thank you all for the great feedback. Dobry I'll go through all those links and forward them all to my friend. I just hope he'll understand that I am just trying to help him and not shut me out. He's already shut out most of his relatives, ex-wife and closest daughter over this. I won't give up just yet though. If there's a will there's a way

Originally Posted by cman_1500w

Dobry, PM sent Thanks

Until she started talking about this "vagabond law" my friends and I have had nothing but high hopes for him. Ok, sure it costs a lot of money for a plane ticket so we could justify that cost. It costs money for a visa? Sure, I'll buy that. BUT when she mentioned this silly law we all knew it was total BS.

Hopefully I'll know more within the week. I'll keep you guys posted.

Thanks again.

*Vagabond* law?
*Our small but efficient group can take all your money you horny foreign idiot" law. There is no such thing as vagabond law, I can assure you, and no girl in her right mind would just get up and go to another country even if all the expenses are paid. Not to mention the stupid fact she wont get a visa. I am pretty sure there is no girl, there is no Spanish prisoner, and there are no Nigerian treasures. I'm sorry for your friend, man, there are plenty of beautiful and honest girls in Russia, but not this time and not this way.

Originally Posted by JB

Going to Russia to meet this "girl" could cost him a lot more than money. There have been several news stories of guys going to foreign countries to meet their e-mail girlfriend. When they get there the girl and her boyfriend take all the cash, presents, credit cards etc and leave the guy in a pool of blood in some back alley. Sometimes the girl and friends keep the guy for a while trying to get him to clean out all his bank accounts or get more money from his family.
If your friend is lonely he needs to turn off the computer and go get involved in his church, local sports or other activities where he can meet women his age. If he has a hankering for a Russian girl (there are plenty of them already in the U.S.) he needs to get out the phone book and look up Russian churches, community groups, etc.

Perhaps...my own instincts tell me that she probably does not exist, and this is a scam group. The links I provided Cman were friends in Russia who could check her out, usually with a simple phone call or two. That would be the least expensive path.

But to tell this guy to stay away from Russia, don't come to Russia to meet other women? I disagree. My girlfriend is in Petersburg, she's quite real, and quite wonderful. If I took your advice I never would have met her. And no, not once has she ever asked for any money. But on the other hand, we were introduced by mutual friends...not over the internet. Anyway, my point is there are many very nice and sincere Russian women that this guy could meet...but he's gouing to have to make the effort to travel to Russia, develop Russian friends for help and support, learn at least a little Russian and some culture.

and some culture.

Culture. That's the word.

Originally Posted by Dobry

If I took your advice I never would have met her. And no, not once has she ever asked for any money.

A man should know better than taking an advice about women from a woman.

This thread has a great potential. Hopefully, the victim will drop in.

Being introduced to a girl through friends you know and trust is a lot different than just going to Russia to "make friends" with complete strangers. Unless you have some place to work or study there, or have friends to stay with (and take care of you), you are a sitting duck for getting into trouble. Foreigners are easily and quickly identified as easy marks by any "less than honest" group of citizens.

This might have already been mentioned or maybe no one even cares anymore but there are websites where you can compare the email adresses of your russian 'girlfriend' to the email adresses of knownn scammers. One of my mom's friends at work did this because in one email she wrote another guys name, and he was like WTF? And he checked her email and she was listed as a scammer... Yea u could try that.

Originally Posted by JB

Being introduced to a girl through friends you know and trust is a lot different than just going to Russia to "make friends" with complete strangers. Unless you have some place to work or study there, or have friends to stay with (and take care of you), you are a sitting duck for getting into trouble. Foreigners are easily and quickly identified as easy marks by any "less than honest" group of citizens.

JB,
Unfortunately, you're missing my point entirely. Of course it's much different if you are in a circle of friends already.

But I understood you essentially to say.."stay away from Russia...never come here...never meet Russian women here...you will suffer a horrible fate."

And no, I disagree with you. Yes there are a few stories of bad experiences, but I also know several American men who have good marriages with Russian women.

This guy has made several huge errors, and I am certain this is a scam. BUT!!! That does NOT mean that ALL Russian women are scammers. There are a lot of Russian women that are very sincere, and I'm certain would be good wives.

Tak, I thought you were generalizing that a man should NEVER go to Russia to meet women...that Russian women (living in Russia) are all bad or dangerous. And I completely disagree. You're making untrue generalizations about a culture and its women.

Again, the links I provided are from trusted people who can quickly ascertain...like in a 5 minute phone call...whether it is a scam. This seems like an efficient, logical solution, and a very quick answer. Agreed?

Tak, my main point is that I thought you made broad, negative "brush-stroke" generalizations about Russian women living in Russia. And I disagree.

Just wait till you wake up and you can't find your wallet and your stereo is gone

On a serious note, I agree with you, there is no point in being excessively paranoid either. If a person can't tell what's too good to be true, he'll get scammed without getting up from his chair.

Since I live in Russia, my girlfriends are Russian, my relatives are Russian, and I'm married to a Russian I think it's a pretty good bet that I know a lot of good honest Russian women who have no interest in scamming foreigners. I also see a lot of foreign guys at the airport, American embassy, cafes,clubs, and pretty much every tourist hangout in Moscow who are being dragged around by their wallet by cute little Russian golddiggers. It's easy to spot these guys with that look of love and adoration on their silly faces. The little hottie hanging on their arm tells them in broken English how great he is then orders the most expensive liquor and food on the menu. Then when the bill comes he has no idea how to pay so he gives her a big wad of cash which she uses to pay the bill, then keeps the big wad of change for herself. Then there is what we Americans call "the green card express". ie the Russian brides who marry an American, move to the U.S., then dump the guy once she gets her American documents (takes only about 3 years).
But don't get me wrong, I know of many successful Russian/foreigner marriages (including my own) but in all cases the person who went to Russia looking for love was familier with the language and culture before spouse hunting on Red Square.
How the **** can you know whether a stranger is honest or not by a 5 minute phone call? The internet scammers frequently give their victim their phone number to make their story seem real, then talk them into giving out more cash!

JB, is it specifically Russian??? can't you run across the scammers in every country where you're considered to be a naive foreigner? why send the money first and think second?

Originally Posted by JB

How the **** can you know whether a stranger is honest or not by a 5 minute phone call? The internet scammers frequently give their victim their phone number to make their story seem real, then talk them into giving out more cash!

JB,

I think you're taking me too literally, about "only 5 minutes". I was speaking figuratively. Personally, I think that this woman does not exist, or is part of a scamming group. If "she" does not exist, then it will take only a few minutes to determine that. If she does exist, but part of a group, then it may take longer, and probably require actually meeting her. Neither of us actually know what sort of communication this guy has had with her. And I know several Russian women who are quite adept at spotting dishonesty or subterfuge. I think this skill is built into the genetics of Russian women.

And to reiterate, yep I think the guy was absolutely stupid to send any money to someone he's never met. He's just asking to be fleeced.

I think the only concern I really had with your advice was that I felt you were feeding stereotypes and fears of "dangerous Russia". But, we honestly have no clue if this woman is sincere or not. I seriously doubt she is sincere, or real...but...what if she is?

And I certainly don't want to discourage or scare this guy from ever traveling to Russia, maybe (certainly) not to meet this girl, but at least to visit the country and maybe begin to forge friendships in Russia. I love Russia very much, and I'm moving to Petersburg in January for work. Absolutely, there are scammers and dangers there...as there are everywhere, especially in the U.S....but there are also very good people...several of the kindest and best people I've ever met in my life, live in Russia. I would have much regretted not becoming friends with these people, because of someone saying "don't travel to Russia, it's dangerous for foreigners, you'll probably be robbed or killed."

To be fair to you, certainly your advice is sound...to be careful, cautious and a bit suspicious of peoples' motives...especially in the wild, wild 'West' of Russia. I just think it was a little too strong is all.

Originally Posted by JB

I also see a lot of foreign guys at the airport, American embassy, cafes,clubs, and pretty much every tourist hangout in Moscow who are being dragged around by their wallet by cute little Russian golddiggers. It's easy to spot these guys with that look of love and adoration on their silly faces. The little hottie hanging on their arm tells them in broken English how great he is then orders the most expensive liquor and food on the menu. Then when the bill comes he has no idea how to pay so he gives her a big wad of cash which she uses to pay the bill, then keeps the big wad of change for herself.

So, who is the culprit here? Why did you conclude it has anything to do with dating or marriage scams? Soliciting prostitution is illegal in the US, so people with needs and some extra money come to Russia, Taiwan and other more fortunate countries for commercial sex and chat (and some culture and sightseeing of course). Everyone is happy, the clients are smiling, as you have noticed, the economy grows, what's so bad about that?

-Маша, доченька, как же так случилось, что ты стала валютной проституткой?
-Как тебе сказать, мама, просто повезло.

Indra, of course scams come from every country in the world that has a computer service. Just get on your search engine and type in Asian/Russian/Irish/Latin/....bride scams.

Dobry, are Russian women any better at spotting a scam than a non-Russian woman? Another (foreign) male fantasy about Russian women . But I agree with you that women in general are better at spotting a golddigger than any man. Women know the tricks guys fall for because we all use them to some degree (some honestly, some not) to get, keep, please, our men.
Is Russia dangerous? Now this is a great topic for a new thread! I think that our internet Romeo is already in danger from Russians and he hasn't even left his computer desk.

adoc, prostitution is also illegal in Russia and sex tourism does nothing to benefit our economy. It only increases crime and the dangers to our children and citizens. So keep your cash, perverts and party boys in their own country.

Originally Posted by JB

adoc, prostitution is also illegal in Russia and sex tourism does nothing to benefit our economy. It only increases crime and the dangers to our children and citizens. So keep your cash, perverts and party boys in their own country.

Someone is mad Our economy? It is your economy now? Weren't you the one advocating tax evasion and bribing authorities a few months ago? You have changed then

I'm just pulling your leg. I know you're all against a little competition.

Originally Posted by JB

Dobry, are Russian women any better at spotting a scam than a non-Russian woman? Another (foreign) male fantasy about Russian women . .

Got some sort of chip on your shoulder??

"Foreign male fantasy"?? Whoa!! I actually take offense with that, as would many of my female friends...including the one who I referred this guy to...she's a Russian social psychologist, i.e. she's a professional and well-trained at reading people. Umm...I dare say my ex-wife (Belarussian, married for many years) would likewise be offended. So please...careful with that negative attitude of yours...not sure where it comes from, but I'm sensing something.

I think Russian women are better at understanding Russian women, than are foreign women, sure. It's only natural...common culture, cultural cues, non-verbal language, etc. absolutely. You'd be much better at reading an American women, right? Tak.

I can "read" Russian women, American women, Asian women,Latin women, etc. Maybe it's because I was raised in a multicultural state (California) and have friends,relatives and coworkers from multiple ethnic groups that I don't see any difference between women. Or maybe women are all pretty much the same in their ways of relating to men. Or maybe it's because I'm a woman who pays attention to the ways in which men and women interact.
Why would your female Russian friends be offended? Mine are not. We spend a lot of time discussing foreign men and their perceptions of Russian women.

adoc, yes this is my economy. Being an immigrant to Russia does not prevent me from becoming a citizen (currently in process) or taking part in the community. Working and investing here means that my wellfare and finances are dependent on the success and prosperity of this country's financial state which is harmed by crimes such as prostitution. Tax evasion and bribes (or "gifts") are a fact of life here that has been a part of the culture for longer than all of us have been alive. I hope someday it will change but for now there is no way to live without it.

Ok then. Verbose but ummm... whatever. Not that I care much. Not so long ago any private enterprise was a crime btw. Good luck being russian. Over and out.

Originally Posted by JB

Why would your female Russian friends be offended? Mine are not. We spend a lot of time discussing foreign men and their perceptions of Russian women.

Ahh...but you don't mind or care that I'm offended.

(shrugs) Whatever.

Dobry, I'm not quite sure why you are offended.