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Thread: Are there physicists out there?

  1. #1
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Are there physicists out there?

    Are there physicists out there in this forum who can explain in simple terms to a simple-minded crocodile the possible consequences of the following: (http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 172648.htm)

    Quote Originally Posted by http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/04/100406172648.htm
    Because Einstein's general theory of relativity does not choose a time orientation, if a black hole can form from the gravitational collapse of matter through an event horizon in the future then the reverse process is also possible. Such a process would describe an exploding white hole: matter emerging from an event horizon in the past, like the expanding universe.
    So, if the paper suggests the matter collapses through the black hole in another universe and emerges in our universe through the white hole, does that mean the 'parent' universe should have significantly more matter than the 'child' universe? The last time I checked the amount of matter in our universe appeared to be final. But the amount of matter collapsing into a black hole is not final, isn't it? I mean, the black hole is a super-massive structure and thus would constantly pull in more matter, correct? Therefore, if our universe is a 'child' universe, we should have seen more matter appearing in our universe all the time, but that's not what we see, right?

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    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile
    The last time I checked the amount of matter in our universe appeared to be final.
    O_o
    How exactly did you check it?
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Завсегдатай sperk's Avatar
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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile
    Therefore, if our universe is a 'child' universe, we should have seen more matter appearing in our universe all the time, but that's not what we see, right?
    just because we don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's just a theory anyway. BTW, they recently successfully collided at CERN though it will take months to analyze the data.
    Кому - нары, кому - Канары.

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    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    Quote Originally Posted by it-ogo
    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile
    The last time I checked the amount of matter in our universe appeared to be final.
    O_o
    How exactly did you check it?
    The simple-minded crocodiles humbly listen to what the smart people are saying. Nothing else, really.

    Quote Originally Posted by http://science.howstuffworks.com/question221.htm
    1.6E+60 kilograms / 1,410 kilograms per cubic meter = 1.1E+57 cubic meters of matter in the universe

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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    Quote Originally Posted by sperk
    just because we don't see it doesn't mean it isn't happening. It's just a theory anyway.
    Yeah, I realize that. The Big Bang is a theory too.

    I asked that question because I keep reading all those ideas that the black holes are the candidates for the subsequent Big Bangs and the 'child' universes. But, what about that first 'super-parent' universe? What type of black hole does that come from? I know I won't get a definite answer (as perhaps no one knows it), but I would appreciate at least a clue in the right direction.

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    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    To be honest, ...
    The only thing I know is that the scientists simply cannot explain how this universe works and this theory is as good as any other. All I know that this universe can even be someone's bad joke as well.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

  7. #7
    Hanna
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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    Quote Originally Posted by crocodile
    simple-minded crocodile
    Hardly!! Why this sudden humility...?

    Quote Originally Posted by crocodile
    But, what about that first 'super-parent' universe?
    No one knows this!

    So here it goes: God created it, of course...! It's all to clever to just have happened by itself. Astronomy, physics and biology don't *really* seem "random"; everything somehow fits into everything else; there is intelligence in science, but on a whole different levels from ours, so it is harder to spot. Like comparing my brain (the chip in an alarm clock...) with God's (CERNs biggest super computer ++)

    And if you don't believe "in the beginning God created... etc", then there is another somewhat similar, but more "geeky" version:

    I read about it in a programming forum many years ago. Perhaps someone else came across it too? It's a wacky mix of science and religion, based on the experience of programming:

    This theory has God as a "programmer" (or like "Big Brother" in the TV show, or the aliens running "The Matrix") The universe is his "software". Like a simulation (SimUniverse..)

    This philosophy considers God to be our name for the power we can sense behind what's going on. He is also the creator of ALL science. When you start seeing patterns and logic in nature/science - then that's a sign of his work.

    Some people are better than other at sensing the truth of what's really happening and this is where genuine religious revelations come from, and visions or predictions of the future.

    The "software" could be running for some specific purpose... But it is not known.

    Sometimes God intervenes in the simulation and makes some "manual" adjustments, like answering prayers, "miracles" or other supernatural events...

    The other thing is that anything IS possible in this Sim Universe: For example creating the world in 7 days.... Noah's ark.... Or alternatively NOT doing that, but creating a story that it happened.

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    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crocodile
    The simple-minded crocodiles humbly listen to what the smart people are saying. Nothing else, really.
    I did not found there anything about the total mass of matter in Universe being constant. And what is really important in that article is a great number of disclaimers about assumptions and so on.

    You see, all this stuff about Universe, GTR superstructures and so on are so far from direct experiments and so mathematically complicated that it is more like Mind Games. Those smart people can spend lives detecting whether one eccentric idea is mathematically contradictory to another or not and come to contradictory conclusions.

    So about those parent and child universes: imagine whatever you are able to and be sure that it has a sense within some reasonable approaches and assumptions.

    For example you like fractals? Imagine that those universes (both parent and child) are exact copies of ours. Definitely corresponding change of basic physical constants and multiplication of corpusculas can be somehow assured by the properties of those bridges.

    I remember the theory from 70-s or 80-s where each elementary particle was treated as a tangent cross-section of another full-size universe in multidimentional Multiverse.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    A good (albeit humiliating) concept was introduced at the end ot the Men in Black:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyzIau5dBao
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    I asked that question because I keep reading all those ideas that the black holes are the candidates for the subsequent Big Bangs and the 'child' universes. But, what about that first 'super-parent' universe? What type of black hole does that come from? I know I won't get a definite answer (as perhaps no one knows it), but I would appreciate at least a clue in the right direction.
    Crocodile

    But, what about that first 'super-parent' universe?

    You seem to be wracking your brains over the question that lies in the area where science and theology meet.
    Namly: Why is the world put together the way it is?

    Tall task.
    If my post contains errors of any kind, I'd appreciate anyone setting me straight.

  11. #11
    Почтенный гражданин
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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    I asked that question because I keep reading all those ideas that the black holes are the candidates for the subsequent Big Bangs and the 'child' universes. But, what about that first 'super-parent' universe? What type of black hole does that come from? I know I won't get a definite answer (as perhaps no one knows it), but I would appreciate at least a clue in the right direction.
    All that is happening (or might happened) behind the event horizon is not the subject of scientific exploration. See "Критерий Поппера". So it's not a theory actually, just fantasy.

  12. #12
    Завсегдатай Crocodile's Avatar
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    Re: Are there physicists out there?

    Thanks, guys, for all your responses. I really appreciate it.

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