Thread: Stalin buses to be launched in 40 cities

Originally Posted by Hanna

Another thing that's occurred to me -- similar to what was discussed in the "Propaganda against Russia" thread -- is how frustrating it must be, as a German, to see the completely un-nuanced picture of Germans in endless numbers of war movies.

Actually, no... But I don't like war movies anyway.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

Maybe, but not necessarily. For example, it's possible that without the "distraction" created by the Americans, Hitler would have done a much better job of carrying out the invasion of the USSR (and he would've had more troops available for that front). While this would not necessarily have resulted in a Soviet loss, it would have left the USSR even more exhausted at the end of the war, and less able to project power into Europe. Although on the other hand, the Western European allies would also have been more exhausted (assuming the Nazis were eventually defeated), and less able to resist Soviet influence.

There are other possibilities, too. Might German scientists have developed the atomic bomb first if the US hadn't gotten involved in Europe? Or alternatively, a far larger number of ex-Nazi scientists may have ended up getting "invitations" to the USSR after the war (with comparatively fewer getting snatched up by us Yanks), which obviously could've drastically changed the course of the nuclear race and the space race.

Then again, the war in the Pacific theater could've gone quite differently if the US had only been fighting on that front and stayed out of Europe. I don't know if that aspect would have made much difference for the USSR, though, since they were virtually uninvolved in the war against Japan.

I said clearly: "If they had never come to Europe", not "If they had never entered the war". By the time American troops appeared in Europe, it had become obvious that the Soviet Union would win. That's why they appeared. It would have been more difficult of course for the Soviet Union to defeat Germany, but Germany had no chances even with a nuclear bomb. Even after the opening of the second front, the eastern front held most German troops and was more important, except for a small period during the Ardennes offense.
Other countries were either occupied or very weak that time, they wouldn't have resisted the Soviet Union and communists and prosoviet moods were very strong in Europe after the war.

"Officially" US involvement in Europe started March 11, 1941 with the passing of the Lend-Lease Act. Previously the US was "selling" to Canada and the ships got lost and ended up in England/Soviet Union. Cash and Carry to UK and SU.
Liberty Ships used to marshal for the North Atlantic Crossing near where I live. A Soviet ship has been discovered with ~$3 Billion in gold and platinum off the coast here.


Stalin buses. Are they modern functioning units or just big Lada/Zil/Trabant/Volga? From what I've seen of Eastern European buses, they would cause a lot of crying about pollution in the US.

There is a good article on this, here:

Stalinobusy – Buses of victory | | Independent Editor's choice Blogs

Stalin Bus drawing from RT:

i6be83cca341ee11e8eb39bbbad0c031f_s-1.jpg

Originally Posted by capecoddah

"Officially" US involvement in Europe started March 11, 1941 with the passing of the Lend-Lease Act. Previously the US was "selling" to Canada and the ships got lost and ended up in England/Soviet Union. Cash and Carry to UK and SU.
Liberty Ships used to marshal for the North Atlantic Crossing near where I live. A Soviet ship has been discovered with ~$3 Billion in gold and platinum off the coast here.


Stalin buses. Are they modern functioning units or just big Lada/Zil/Trabant/Volga? From what I've seen of Eastern European buses, they would cause a lot of crying about pollution in the US.

America was not in a position do do anything when WWII started, she had a military that was outdated in terms of operations and personel, the model was based upon WWI operations, the personal were conscripts.

George Marshall changed all of that and was instrumental in Lend Lease, a great read is

Winning the Peace: The Marshall Plan and America's Coming of Age as a Superpower by Nicolaus Mills.

Also lets remember that there were the Baltic conveys that supplied aid and munitions to the Soviets.

Arctic convoys of World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Originally Posted by capecoddah

From what I've seen of Eastern European buses, they would cause a lot of crying about pollution in the US.

Is that the pot calling the kettle black again? In your country from what I understand, you hardly even HAVE a functioning bus service in most places! People are forced to drive a car, even those who can't afford it or don't want to! Considerably less environmentally friendly, and apalling economy for people on a low income.

I have travelled a lot around Europe, West and recently also East. There is no particular problem with the standard of buses in Eastern Europe, compared with elsewhere. Pretty much all of the buses are updated since the 90s. What they've got is perfectly serviceable. Obviously they don't have the latest and greatest bus models, adapted to wheelchair users, with perfect climate control etc, etc.. but such buses are not common anywhere else either.

Plus, Eastern European cities usually have very extensive tram and trolleybus networks in central town, this hardly pollutes at all. Regular buses are probably only about a quarter of public transport. The rest is metro where it exists, trolleybus, tram and suburban train. It's well known that all the socialist countries were very good at public transport.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

There are other possibilities, too. Might German scientists have developed the atomic bomb first if the US hadn't gotten involved in Europe? Or alternatively, a far larger number of ex-Nazi scientists may have ended up getting "invitations" to the USSR after the war (with comparatively fewer getting snatched up by us Yanks), which obviously could've drastically changed the course of the nuclear race and the space race.

I think no German scientists were employed in the USSR after the war actually, even captured. Were they?

Originally Posted by Anixx

I think no German scientists were employed in the USSR after the war actually, even captured. Were they?

There were Captured German scientists in the USSR, of course, but they were fewer than in the USA.

Originally Posted by Alan

America was not in a position do do anything when WWII started, she had a military that was outdated in terms of operations and personel, the model was based upon WWI operations, the personal were conscripts.

George Marshall changed all of that and was instrumental in Lend Lease, a great read is

Winning the Peace: The Marshall Plan and America's Coming of Age as a Superpower by Nicolaus Mills.

Also lets remember that there were the Baltic conveys that supplied aid and munitions to the Soviets.

Arctic convoys of World War II - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Aaaaaaaaaaaand you missed the bus.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Is that the pot calling the kettle black again? In your country from what I understand, you hardly even HAVE a functioning bus service in most places! People are forced to drive a car, even those who can't afford it or don't want to! Considerably less environmentally friendly, and apalling economy for people on a low income.

OK. Back to reality. USA has many fine public transportation systems. And they are in Major Metropolitan areas. Just like Europe. Used them in Boston, Miami/ South Florida, Atlanta and Washington DC.

We're not Europe. We were founded by Europeans that wanted some space. A n d w e a r e s p r e a d o u t.

My comment was regarding their pollution controls. Like we have here.

Cars? "My Kids" (read Eastern Europeans) love to ride in cars! A ride to town in comfort, a ride home after work with a bike in the back of the pick-up truck in the rain or a trip to the beach with the top down, A/C and tunes blasting.
Or ride the bus. Or the bike.

Thank you.
I'll stick with a sedan to get to work and drive more than 2 bags of groceries home. Not a luxury
A truck for a drive to the Recycle and Trash Transfer-station AND haul a boat AND work. Not a luxury
AND a nice old convertible to hit the beach with. Minor luxury. It's worth MAYBE $3,000

I worked hard to keep off the bus.

Originally Posted by capecoddah

My comment was regarding their pollution controls. Like we have here.

The EU has better pollution controls than the USA, which won't even sign the Kyoto protocol! You may think of your country as environmentally "superior" to Russia, but this side of Atlantic nobody does! Many US politicians won't even acknowledge global warming despite the overwhelming evidence. A bit of lobbying in Washington means that environmentally unsound companies can carry on with their devastation. You also have higher car ownership than anywhere else. Why? If all countries had the same car usage patterns as the USA, the world would go under from pollution in a matter of years. It is completely unsustainable.

There is nothing shameful, dangerous or unpleasant about using well managed public transport! Quite the opposite. Plus it is the environmentally superior choice.

I am a high income earner who could afford an expensive car, but I don't care for it and use public transport or ocassionally taxis. Not saying everyone must be like me, but as a single person I have no issue at all managing without a car.

And for the record: I am not defending Russians in Moscow who drive unnecessarily - apparently the traffic situation is terrible and some people suddenly consider themselves too good for public transport! Why does everyone need a car in a city with good public transport?