Thread: saying America when actually referring to the USA

почему много людей говорят 'Америка', но они на самом деле означают США?
является мексике, бразилии и других стран так незначительный.

never understood that; surely other countries in the continent of America should feel undermined.
i would never say 'Europe' and actually mean France for example

anyway, just something that crossed my mind.....

Most likely it comes from United Stated of America, over time people just shortened it to just America
It means no disrespect to other countries

Originally Posted by eisenherz

почему много людей говорят 'Америка', но они на самом деле означают США?

Традиция и более ничего. Вот что сказано в статье Америка:

Слово «Америка» нередко употребляется для обозначения одного из государств этой части света — США^[2] («американский» — значит произведённый в США, находящийся в США и т. д.), а выражение «открыть Америку» часто означает «сообщить давно всем известную и очевидную информацию».

Some similar examples:

saying "Англия" (England) actually meaning "Великобритания" (Great Britain, the UK) which includes England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland;
saying "Голландия" (Holland) actually meaning "Нидерланды" (the Netherlands), where North Holland and South Holland are just two of their 12 provinces (Netherlands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia);
eariler: saying "Россия" (Russia) actually meaning "Советский Союз, СССР" (the Soviet Union, the USSR) which used to consist of 15 union republics, Russia used to be one of them.

Although the analogy is not quigte accurate. "America" when referring to the US belongs to "the whole instead of a part" relationship.
My examples illustrate a different kind of relationship: "a part instead of the whole".

i hear you, but i do not fully agree with the analogy...
when i say Russia i mean Russia
when i mean the Soviet Union i say CCCP
when i say UK i mean England, Scotland, Wales etc
when i mean England alone i say England

in the case of 'America' supposed to mean 'USA' that feels like a country 'usurping' the name of a continent.

but yes, i suppose it has just evolved like that for ease of speak and not for pretending to be the continent.

Originally Posted by eisenherz

i hear you, but i do not fully agree with the analogy...
when i say Russia i mean Russia
when i mean the Soviet Union i say CCCP
when i say UK i mean England, Scotland, Wales etc
when i mean England alone i say England

OK, I see But that's you.
I know (at least in 1980-s) many people in the West used to say "Russia" instead of the USSR. I just heard about that.
And here (in Russia), many people still use "England" to name the entire UK. It is very common at least in my country.

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

And here (in Russia), many people still use "England" to name the entire UK. It is very common at least in my country.

In Russia many people don't know what UK and Great Britain are. So they use the name Англия. It's a long tradition of ignorance.

Recently I heard someone saying New Zealand is part of British Dominion, instead of the Commonwealth.... etc .. etc.... Isn't 'dominion' a colonialism epoch term???

A Canadian showed us a Canadian dollar bill and a Russian man (technical PhD, very educated senior man) was surprised to see the British Queen on the money. I told him Канада входит в Содружество, он улыбнулся и спросил, в какое содружество...., so such examples abound here.

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

Some similar examples:

saying "Голландия" (Holland) actually meaning "Нидерланды" (the Netherlands), where North Holland and South Holland are just two of their 12 provinces (Netherlands - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia);

In Russia also the majority of the people think that there is such country as Holland.

Besides, technically Great Britain doesn't include Northern Ireland. The UK does since 1922.

Originally Posted by alexsms

In Russia also the majority of the people think that there is such country as Holland.

Besides, technically Great Britain doesn't include Northern Ireland. The UK does since 1922.

Небольшой офф-топ.

Вспомнил на эту тему свои собственные представления о географии в детстве (лет так в 7 - 8, наверное):

Заграница - это название одной из стран.

За рубежом... - когда я слышал это выражение, под "рубежом" я почему-то понимал Уральские горы (карту СССР я уже представлял себе). Таким образом, "за рубежом" = "за Уралом". А вот "Заграницей" - это в стране под названием "Заграница".

Украинцы - они живут на Украине, тут всё понятно.

Хохлы - это совсем другой народ. Почему-то, я представлял себе, что это какой-то из народов Сибири либо Крайнего Севера.

Ну и классика жанра:

Под Москвой - когда я это слышал, я однозначно воспринимал это как "в московском метро". PS Я сам не из Москвы.

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

Хохлы - это совсем другой народ. Почему-то, я представлял себе, что это какой-то из народов Сибири либо Крайнего Севера.

А я еще совсем недавно не знал слова "кацап". Как-то мимо меня прошло.

что же 'кацап' значит?

Speaking for myself, I mean no disrespect when I refer to people of the US as "Americans." It's just a more expedient way to refer to "the citizens of the US" which is a bigger mouthful. I can see how people in Canada might be offended, since they are also part of the North American continent. But even most Canadians I know don't bat an eye when I refer to US citizens as "Americans." It rolls off the tongue easier and has fewer syllables. "US citizens" = 5 syllables. "Americans" = 4 syllables. Sometimes I just call us "Murkans" (more fitting these days) which only has 2 syllables. It's probably just a sign of how lazy we Murkans are

Originally Posted by Deborski

But even most Canadians I know don't bat an eye when I refer to US citizens as "Americans."

For that matter, when Islamic radicals say Marg bar Amrika! (Farsi) or Al maut li Amrika! (Arabic), they don't mean "Смерть Канаде!"

Sometimes I just call us "Murkans"

I've also seen the spelling "Merkins". (Note that, historically, a "merkin" was a маленький парик для лобка!)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

For that matter, when Islamic radicals say Marg bar Amrika! (Farsi) or Al maut li Amrika! (Arabic), they don't mean "Смерть Канаде!"

I just wonder if you know that just out of curiosity, or did you learn either of those languages?
I'm asking that because I was never exposed to languages like Farsi or Arabic.

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

I just wonder if you know that just out of curiosity, or did you learn either of those languages?
I'm asking that because I was never exposed to languages like Farsi or Arabic.

You just need to be a bit closer to Langley, VA to know it

Originally Posted by Doomer

You just need to be a bit closer to Langley, VA to know it

Sorry, I did not get the joke.

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

I just wonder if you know that just out of curiosity, or did you learn either of those languages?
I'm asking that because I was never exposed to languages like Farsi or Arabic.

I don't know either of these languages. Actually, I learned these phrases years ago on an Internet thread in which someone was complaining about the "ignorant" way that some Americans pronounce "Iraq" and "Iran" as Ай-рэк and Ай-рэн (instead of Ирак, Иран).

But then a Persian-American commenter pointed out that in both Farsi and Arabic, they "ignorantly" say ам-РИ-ка instead of а-МЭ-ри-ка -- so if some Americans want to say АЙ-РЭН, not и-РАН, that was their own business!

(And a Russian commenter added that Russians "ignorantly" say Стамбул and Пекин instead of "Istanbul" and "Beijing"... there were other examples given, too.) Anyway, that's how I learned how to say "Death to America!!!" in Farsi and Arabic.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Speaking for myself, I mean no disrespect when I refer to people of the US as "Americans." It's just a more expedient way to refer to "the citizens of the US" which is a bigger mouthful. I can see how people in Canada might be offended, since they are also part of the North American continent.

What about Mexicans ? Now they get really offended 'cause you don't even consider them as North Americans
Just kidding

Под Москвой - I remember hearing that same term and thinking the same thing!

Интересно, что в русском языке слово "жид" - презрительное и крайне грубое обозначение еврея. Я бы сказал, гораздо хуже чем "хохол" или "кацап". Тогда как в польском "żyd" (произносится так же) - совершенно нейтральное слово, соответствующее русскому "еврей".

Собственно, аналогично тому, как русское "негр" - нейтральное обозначение представителя чёрной расы.
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