Thread: Russians and English?

Originally Posted by Johanna

IMHO the European Union ought to drop English as the common language and use Esperanto instead. I don't know it, but apparently it can be learnt to a high standard in under 1/4 of the time that it takes to learn good English.

Well English comes along with all its literature, whereas Esperanto as a language is pretty much naked, so I'd still learn English, although I am not very fond of linguistic imperialism. Also I've never felt any pressure to learn English, so I guess it depends on where you live. Down here in France, nobody speaks English, and we just don't care.
I wish Russian replaced English as the international language, but this is rather unlikely.

Originally Posted by Zubr

Down here in France, nobody speaks English, and we just don't care.

YES and NO, Zubr!

I know all too well first hand that "YOU" French don't care about us poor English speaking tourists. We can miss our trains, get lost, not eat for days... unless... unless... we try to speak at least ONE little word of French albeit poorly pronounced and hacked to death with a horrible accent. THEN and ONLY THEN will you lend us a hand. All the while, you secretly have understood us the entire time and are laughing at us behind our backs. I am certain you have a competition each year as to who made the American tourist suffer the most. I believe one year it was the person who tormented my mother!

And still, we come back for more. Why?

Because it is just like being in New York! All the attitude and without having to learn Freach or the French accent! That AND there is NOWHERE else to get a decent croissant!!!!

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Originally Posted by Zubr

Down here in France, nobody speaks English, and we just don't care.

YES and NO, Zubr!

I know all too well first hand that "YOU" French don't care about us poor English speaking tourists. We can miss our trains, get lost, not eat for days...

Deleted. L.

Лампада, это уже даже не смешно. У Зубра может сложиться впечатление, что за ним по пятам с этой ссылкой ходят.

Originally Posted by Zaya

Лампада, это уже даже не смешно. У Зубра может сложиться впечатление, что за ним по пятам с этой ссылкой ходят.

Sorry!

Originally Posted by Zubr

Originally Posted by Johanna

IMHO the European Union ought to drop English as the common language and use Esperanto instead.

Well English comes along with all its literature, whereas Esperanto as a language is pretty much naked, so I'd still learn English, although I am not very fond of linguistic imperialism. Also I've never felt any pressure to learn English, so I guess it depends on where you live. Down here in France, nobody speaks English, and we just don't care.
I wish Russian replaced English as the international language, but this is rather unlikely.

Well that's a good point, but actually, if Esperanto was used as a language for communication, it wouldn't matter that it has no litterature becuase people could read novels etc in their native languages, or in whatever other normal langauges they spoke.. Esperanto could be used just to speak with other Europeans and perhaps for non-fiction.

As for Russian as a language in Europe... I guess speakers of Slavic languages wouldn't mind it so much, but it would be a nightmare for everyone else! As for whether it was going to happen... well with the USSR gone and and more and more Nato bases being established, I guess not... hehe! But seriously, I hope for better relations between EU and Russia. Russia is a more decent country than the US, I think, yet I'll be damned if I can find a single nice thing written about Russia in a British paper.

Originally Posted by Johanna

As for Russian as a language in Europe... it would be a nightmare for everyone else!

Хм... It’s interesting. Why? Because of Russian is more difficult to learn, or maybe the reason shelters in something else?

Artificial languages are good only for computers IMHO. Nobody really knows what makes language good for living people. It's a MIstery of Creation&Evolution Inc.

Originally Posted by Звездочёт

Originally Posted by Johanna

As for Russian as a language in Europe... it would be a nightmare for everyone else!

Хм... It’s interesting. Why? Because of Russian is more difficult to learn, or maybe the reason shelters in something else?

Because of the Cyrillic alphabet.

Originally Posted by Zaya

Лампада, это уже даже не смешно. У Зубра может сложиться впечатление, что за ним по пятам с этой ссылкой ходят.

Ничего, Зая. И я об этом фильме сразу подумал.

Rockzmom, I see you know our little sesame! I'll have to tell my fellow compatriots that you Americans won't be tricked by us anymore, and we have to find another way to bully you. Or can you keep the secret...?

Originally Posted by Zubr

Originally Posted by Zaya

Лампада, это уже даже не смешно. У Зубра может сложиться впечатление, что за ним по пятам с этой ссылкой ходят.

Ничего, Зая. И я об этом фильме сразу подумал. ...

Между прочим, почему такое серьёзное отношение к этому видео? Разве это не инсценированная хохма?

Было бы серьезное — не было бы смайла в конце. «Даже», пожалуй, было лишним. Извини. Если хочешь восстановить ссылку — восстанавливай, дело твое, я не то чтобы сильно против (может, кто-то теперь гадает, что там было))). В любом случае, этот вариант меня устроит больше, чем долгие расспросы в духе «почему такое серьезное отношение».

Originally Posted by E-learner

I used to think that the most difficult aspect of Russian is system of cases, espesially in combination with system of genders. After reading this forum for quite a while now, I don't think that anymore. Now I think it's the aspect of verbs.

What do native speakers of English think about English in that respect? What did you think about difficulties of English before and after being exposed to English writing of Russians?

My own thesis is that each language has things which make it harder (to learn) and things which make it easier. I remember when I was first starting Russian having difficulty with the LACK of articles, but soon realized that no articles made things a bit easier. This was offset, of course, by having to learn case endings.

As for difficulties in learning English, I think this forum, just by being a written forum, hides some of the big difficulties in learning pronunciation. I haven't yet met a Russian speaker who can pronounce my name accurately. Intonation and stress patterns are quite important in spoken English for conveying subtle meanings and they are quite different than they are in Russian.

I've got a book here in front of me called Learner English (ed Michael Swan and Bernard Smith) which covers some of the chief difficulties in learning English for speakers of a number of other languages. The article on Russian goes over a number of specific issues: use of commas, formation of questions, use of auxiliary verbs, past progressive tense, passive voice, conditionals, word order, comparative adjectives, etc.

Each of those things simply represents something which is DIFFERENT about Russian and English, which means that each of those items is likely to cause corresponding difficulties for English speakers learning Russian.

I suppose one global issue is that English gets quite a bit of exposure in Russian speaking countries whereas the reverse is certainly not the case. So people growing up in Russia (Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, etc) should have a head start.

Originally Posted by paulb

I haven't yet met a Russian speaker who can pronounce my name accurately.

Do you mean the name Paul? If not, tell me your name please and let me try.

Originally Posted by Оля

Originally Posted by paulb

I haven't yet met a Russian speaker who can pronounce my name accurately.

Do you mean the name Paul? If not, tell me your name please and let me try.

Yes. My full name is Paul Baxter. The final r in my last name usually causes trouble, but the vowel in my first name much more so.

Just as a random aside, I was amused recently to learn that there is a Russian word вахтёр. I saw it in a story I was reading and I thought it was about me for a second

Originally Posted by paulb

I suppose one global issue is that English gets quite a bit of exposure in Russian speaking countries whereas the reverse is certainly not the case. So people growing up in Russia (Ukraine, Belarus, Kazakhstan, etc) should have a head start.

Paul ---I think the headstart is minimal. I was using Livemocha.com for a while and helped out lots of people from Russia and Ukraine with English grammar and pronounciation. The Russian speaking English learners at LiveMocha were at an age that, if they had studied English in school, they ought to have been a LOT better than they actually were... I know this because I studied English as a foreign language (ESL) in school. They must have been complete beginners. They were struggling tremendously with basic pronounciation and grammar.

I don't know what the policies are on studying English at school in the CIS countries. But either it's not mandatory, or it was only recently made mandatory..

Of course, I am speaking as somebody who had to drop out of Russian in school because it was too hard for me! I had to choose Spanish instead for my third foreign language. So this is no criticism against people from these countries.

Whether it's right, fair or sensible to expect everybody to learn English is a completely different story.... But that's the way the world is today, unfortunately... Of course, things were different for Russians etc in the USSR times, but a lot of time has passed since then...

Most of the people on Livemocha were between 20 and 30. Within the borders of the European Union, I don't think you could find a 20-year-old who could not at least speak rudimentary English.

Then on the other hand, the Russian speaking world is so enormously big, and quite well integrated... There must surely be at least 250mil speakers of Russian... Perhaps English simply isn't needed and this is the reason for the lack of English skills. It's hard to understand what the exact situation is.

Originally Posted by Johanna

I don't know what the policies are on studying English at school in the CIS countries. But either it's not mandatory, or it was only recently made mandatory..

It depends on a particular school. During my shool time after five years of English lessons in ordinary shool (2x45min lessons a week) I was able to say only three phrases: "My name is Yuriy.","This is a table." and "Who is on duty today?"

Within the borders of the European Union, I don't think you could find a 20-year-old who could not at least speak rudimentary English.

Maybe, but there are plenty of 45+ years-old who don't speak English almost at all (At least I met some of such kind).

Then on the other hand, the Russian speaking world is so enormously big, and quite well integrated... There must surely be at least 250mil speakers of Russian... Perhaps English simply isn't needed and this is the reason for the lack of English skills. It's hard to understand what the exact situation is.

For example my wife (she is 29) doesn't speak a word in English. It isn't more understandable for her than Chinese. (That's one of the reasons I post here in English, I hate when she stands behind and reads what I'm typing ). Her native language is Ukrainian, she speaks Russian without any Ukrainian accent and feels perfectly sufficient with these two.

Originally Posted by Basil77

It depends on a particular school. During my shool time after five years of English lessons in ordinary shool (2x45min lessons a week) I was able to say only three phrases: "My name is Yuriy.","This is a table." and "Who is on duty today?"

What about "I live in ..." and "I go to school"? ))

But you both speak good English!
Did you achieve it by studying on your own?

Originally Posted by Johanna

But you both speak good English!
Did you achieve it by studying on your own?

He he, how could you know how they speak English?

As for me, I even don't know how I speak English because I never tried!!!