Американский сериал Airwolf. Почему все-таки они такие тупые и невежественные? Неужели все американские сценаристы читают только комиксы?
http://www.from-ua.com/dark/42cd301601bc7
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Американский сериал Airwolf. Почему все-таки они такие тупые и невежественные? Неужели все американские сценаристы читают только комиксы?
http://www.from-ua.com/dark/42cd301601bc7
He-he, I've read it recently. In the photo with "raketen" there is a button with letter Й on it -- it's very funny too :D
It became dumb long ago. Though some movies are ok. It depends on the director, I think. Lots of progress has been made by now - there are fewer and fewer people believing that Russia is infested with bears :roll:
I don't see any progress. Every western movie with Russian thema is always very stupid, I don't know any exception.
1. You are anti-western in general.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomaks
2. Stereotypes always have a basis.
If you have no arguments to demolish my thinks that will be good argument.Quote:
1. You are anti-western in general.
Deception also always have a basis. Russophobie or stupidity for instance. What do you prefer?Quote:
2. Stereotypes always have a basis.
Yes, I agree with TATY.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
But, there are films moving away from stereotypes. Anyone remember "Deerhunter"? That was centered on Russian-Americans.
Not perfect, but it did NOT portray Russians as dumb. It portrayed strong ideas of friendship and loyalty.
Another possibility..."Rounders"...I did not like Malkovich's 'Teddy' character, but he was not stupid or dumb. Very intelligent and clever.
And "Burnt by the Sun", which was popular in America. Not an American movie, but BIG in the U.S. with educated Americans.
The "Bourne" movies...
"Prisoner of the Mountains" with Sergei and Oleg.
And my hero...Tarkovsky...his films are dear to Americans, they are treasures to us...nothing more need be said.
Do I need to continue? Or do you understand that many Americans DO see movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?
Stop making assumptions how "Americans" think...especially when many of them are Russian.
Hollywood is not America. It never will be. Unfortunately, Fantomaks, it may be the only window you see. :cry:
They were not Russians. Typical Americans without any Russian habits. Don't call them Russians.Quote:
Anyone remember "Deerhunter"? That was centered on Russian-Americans.
This is our indelible disgrace. The movie is so bad that you don't even understand. Mikhalkov have shooted this film to get "Oscar" and acknowledgement of Western world. If you want to show his really good movies see his former films: "Раба любви", "Свой среди чужих, чужой среди своих", "Неоконченная пьеса для механического пианино". They are perfect.Quote:
And "Burnt by the Sun", which was popular in America. Not an American movie, but BIG in the U.S. with educated Americans.
I don't care about Russian in Hollywood films. I prefer that Russian in Americans movies will be ugly, stupid and evel. Really! Why? Coz they anyway can't show Russian as real people, only as dummy. So it will be better to see bad Russian with bad scenario then strength, intelligence, and the Noble Russian with bad scenario. Not so offensive.Quote:
Do I need to continue? Or do you understand that many Americans DO see movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?
Hollywood is sight of America. Many Americans have no informations about the world except movies.Quote:
Hollywood is not America. It never will be. Unfortunately, Fantomaks, it may be the only window you see.
This is our indelible disgrace. The movie is so bad that you don't even understand. Mikhalkov have shooted this film to get "Oscar" and acknowledgement of Western world. If you want to show his really good movies see his former films: "Раба любви", "Свой среди чужих, чужой среди своих", "Неоконченная пьеса для механического пианино". They are perfect.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomaks
I don't care about Russian in Hollywood films. I prefer that Russian in Americans movies will be ugly, stupid and evel. Really! Why? Coz they anyway can't show Russian as real people, only as dummy. So it will be better to see bad Russian with bad scenario then strength, intelligence, and the Noble Russian with bad scenario. Not so offensive.Quote:
Do I need to continue? Or do you understand that many Americans DO see movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?
Hollywood is sight of America. Many Americans have no informations about the world except movies.[/quote:754lp5hf]Quote:
Hollywood is not America. It never will be. Unfortunately, Fantomaks, it may be the only window you see.
Doesn't the fact that it bothers you so much, show an underlying insecurity?
I did. Please do not assume me stupid. I have seen all his films. And I don't think you understand Mikhalkov.Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomaks
[/quote:17fwfrmd]Quote:
Do I need to continue? Or do you understand that many Americans DO see movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?
I don't care about Russian in Hollywood films. I prefer that Russian in Americans movies will be ugly, stupid and evel. Really! Why? Coz they anyway can't show Russian as real people, only as dummy. So it will be better to see bad Russian with bad scenario then strength, intelligence, and the Noble Russian with bad scenario. Not so offensive.
Hollywood is not America. It never will be. Unfortunately, Fantomaks, it may be the only window you see.
Hollywood is sight of America. Many Americans have no informations about the world except movies.
I think your thoughts are clear now. You refuse to consider new friends...and everyone you don't know, is your enemy. And you consider "America" your enemy.
Sad. And you refuse to change your mind.
I may be the nicest, kindest person on this earth...someone who could be your strongest friend...but, you will continue to believe I am worthless and an idiot, because I am called 'American'. :|
No, you don't understand Americans. Not at all.
And you do not understand the strength or the beauty of the Russian soul.
Come then, Fantomoks...break it down...as I, the "American" work to strengthen what I cherish and love, the Russian spirit and soul...and you work to weaken it.
P.S. You paid no respect to Tarkovsky.
Властелин, я не руский. Живу в США уже лет 17. За это время, не увидел ни едного положителного фильма про Руских. В СМИ тоже самое - нет ни одного положителного слова. СМИ в США являються оружием масовой манипулацией Американского населения. И манипулируют они против Роских - непрерывно.
Я давно перестал смотрет Голивуд и масс медиа. Я не очень понимаю почему Руские смотрять эту отраву. Они попросту должны отвратиться от Голивуда. И те которые уже отвратились, должены непрерывно предостерегать осталных. А вы что Властелин, струсили от критики ли, что ли?
there are quite few very good american movies
Dobry, I don't think anyone "refused to consider new friends". The conversation is strictly about the extremely negative light in which the American media represents everything Russian. Precisely because Russians appreciate new friends, they are concerned with the situation. Being continuously shown as dummies and mafia combined, does not win Russians any friends! Do you understand your logical error?
To give you another example - you assumed that Fantomaks considered you "stupid", "worthless and an idiot", etc, without he ever claiming anything like that. Your assumptions about what Russians might think about you are very telling. To a large extent, they come from your media environment.
stef49,
Understood. But my comments (me worthless, idiot) were rhetorical, not personal. And I was not speaking of all Russians, but to the stereotyped bias of fantomaks. I actually don't know what fantomaks thinks of me (but I strongly sense I would not be welcome in his home on New Year's! :wink: )
I disagree...I do not see the American media always portraying "everything Russian" in an "extremely negative light." For example, I have seen the media strongly criticize Bush, and then praise Putin in world politics. It is the American media that caused me, and many Americans, to donate to the Nord-Ost's, and Beslan children's funds.
And I do not understand why fantomaks did not like "Burnt by the Sun". Please explain why he believes it shows Russians in a bad way? In America, it educated many Americans as to the Stalin Purges. By the way, Oleg is one of my favorite actors.
I'm almost afraid to mention the portrayal of Zaitsev, by Hollywood, as the hero of Stalingrad. Clearly not a Russian film, but Hollywood did show Zaitsev as a good man and a hero, true?
And think...if the American media, and people, really believed that all Russians are dummies and/or mafia...do you really think our Astronauts would join the Russian Cosmonauts as partners in building the international space station??? The American media portray the Cosmonauts as good men, intelligent men and heroes. Americans think of the Cosmonauts as heroes. This is reality, and not a goofy TV show or movie.
My point is that fantomaks is only seeing what he wants to see, thru a very small window, and he is refusing other windows where Russians are portrayed in a good way, thought of in a good way, by American media. Here he is stereotyping American beliefs, all of America, based on an old TV series from 20 years ago!
I sense that he wants to believe the bad, and close his eyes to the good...much has changed in 20 years.
Never heard of it...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
And of this one, too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
Absolutely right, *not* an american movie. (And a contradictory one as well... but it's a theme for a different discussion.)Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
I never seen any of these... but I'm afraid they are exactly as anti-russian, as all spy thrillers are.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
"Кавказский пленник?" Not an american movie, too...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
Well, not an american movies, again.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
Probably they do. But the original topic of discussion was more like "Do americans MAKE movies that show Russian strength, intelligence, and the Noble?"Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
The answer seems to be negative, I'm afraid.
Especially "Аrmagedon" (Армагедон) with drunken Russian Cosmonaut in the cap with ear-flaps (где пьяный русский космонавт в шапке-ушанке закалачивает гвозди). Or something like this.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
Or "2010" with Kramarov in the role of the Soviet Cosmonaut.
I consider the film as stupid. I prefer to switch off any Hollywood film if there are Soviet or Russian personages.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
This film is total lie, Russian veterans were protesting against it, even another good film K-19 The widowmaker where Harrison Ford is a real Russian hero wasn't met good here. Americans didnt understand it and almost nobody watched it as the hero wasn't american. For Holywood it s not profitable to make heros of any other nationalities, guys are making money, not films.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
Red Dawn?Quote:
Originally Posted by Fantomaks
"It is the dawn of World War III. In mid-western America, a group of teenagers bands together to defend their town, and their country, from invading Soviet forces" http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0087985/
They were trying to scare us (propaganda). It only informed us that there were more countries out there than just us. ooops....
:roll:
This is why I was afraid to mention it. It is not a good film, and it is not historically accurate. But this is not the point...Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
The assertion was raised that Russians are "always portrayed as dummies or mafia." Zaitsev was portrayed as a good man and a hero. Fine, let us assume his character is fictional. Hollywood has portrayed a Russian as a strong, good man, and a hero. Are all Russian films 100% historically accurate? No, of course not, most movies are fiction. "Kukushka" was fiction. "Prisoner of the Mountains" was fiction. "War" was fiction. Same as Hollywood movies.
I forgot about "2010". But the Cosmonauts were not portrayed as "dummies". But in reality, the real Cosmonauts are considered as heroes in the U.S. The media portray them as real-life heroes.
NASA media...Expedition Commander Sergei Krikalev is a veteran of five previous spaceflights, including two missions to the Russian space station Mir and two Shuttle flights. He was a member of the first Station crew, serving aboard a much smaller ISS from Nov. 2, 2000, to March 18, 2001. He has spent a year, 5 months and 10 days in space. This flight should see him become the world's most experienced space traveler.
Born in Leningrad (now St. Petersburg), Russia, he graduated from what is now St. Petersburg Technical University in 1981 and then joined NPO Energia, the Russian organization responsible for human spaceflight. He was selected as a cosmonaut in 1985.
Commander Krikalev is a true hero. And both the U.S. government and media are portraying him as a hero, and the world's most experienced cosmo/astro-naut...a Russian hero, and a hero for Americans also.
I know and understand what some of you are saying, and I agree there have been some bad portrayals. But not "all" of them. Portrayals have been changing over the years. Let time work it's miracles, and you will see a good change in the media portrayals.
Well, I do believe that "Enemy at the Gate" and "K-19 The Widowmaker" were excellent movies, I am not sure about the first one, but the second was approved by Russian veterans, more then that they participated in the creation of the movie, although I liked "Enemy at the Gate" more.
I watched both movies in Cinema theaters, and in both cases I could see that people who were watching them with me were shocked. The movie already ended, the lights were on, but everybody was sitting in silence.
Yes, the movies are not perfect, but can you name any Russian movie about Russian war which is perfect? "But that is our movie".
Long time ago, back in Uzbekistan I watched video "Их поменяли местами", I did not speak English then, so I do not remember the original name, but it was an american movie about two twins who played game (being adutl women, one married, the other was not), one lived in Venece, the other was married not a very rich american scientist. Not a great movie, but the was a Russian scientist in there, who was visiting the american one. He was just a normal guy, looked very russian to me, in his behaviour etc.
Sex and the City, I do not watch that show, but my ex-wife insisted I watched one part, about on of female characters over there dating Russian actor or artist, I do not remember. He was quite handsome, nice guy, very charming with great manners etc.
Should I mention Russian movies were americans are total a$$holes? Like "Случай в квадрате 36/80"?
Still, here is what the veteran crew had to say about K-19 (from imdb)
Upon reading the film's script, the surviving crewmembers were so incensed that they sent an open letter to Ford, Bigelow, Whitaker, and Jaffe, expressing their dismay. Among the less-than-credible details they objected to were profane language, the animosity between the two highest commanding officers, insubordination among the crew, drunk crewmembers, the attempted mutiny, the guns (which are kept under seal in a secret location), and the handcuffs (which were only used by and available to cops).
Right, "Enemy at the Gates" is not openly anti-Russian. I would call it the exception that confirms the rule. The movie is not for my taste, but that's a different story.
To avoid any further nitpicking, let me say it this way: The overhelming majority of Hollywood movies that show Russians, show them in bad light. Most of the Russian (not Soviet) movies that show Americans, show them in good light. There are exceptions on both sides and I wouldn't blame the Ruskies if they tried to catch up and get even.
Well, half of the truth is a LIE! Yes, there script was shown to Russian veterans, they critisesed it heavenly, all critic was carefully checked and the script was re-written. Russian veterans were invited as consultants for the movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by stef49
Any Russian movies about american army which did it? Please, name it!
And modern Russian movies... well, I do watch them sometimes. Americans there quite often are just stupid idiots. That's what I saw personally.
the older, the better, right?Quote:
This is our indelible disgrace. The movie is so bad that you don't even understand. Mikhalkov have shooted this film to get "Oscar" and acknowledgement of Western world. If you want to show his really good movies see his former films: "Раба любви", "Свой среди чужих, чужой среди своих", "Неоконченная пьеса для механического пианино". They are perfect.
i haven't seen raba liuvi but burnt by the sun is just as good as cvoi sredi tchujih (a soviet spaghetti western if you get my drift) and far better than the piano thing (which is far too long and boring).
of course, urga is da best:)
That half was on imdb. There was no other. I may have to watch the movie myself to figure out what changed and how much. But the original take is interesting in itself.Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioner
For the record, I also reject most Hollywood movies about American life and values. Is Hollywood anti-Russian? Yes. Is it anti-American? Almost as much, although in a different and more subtle way.
Take it easy.
May I ask you a question? What movie-producing factories you take for realty? Indian ones?Quote:
Originally Posted by stef49
BTW, another name of Hollywood is "Dream Factory". That all is about dreams, so, really, take it easy.
You still did not reply, what Russian movie where american army participate you can call where Americans showed as humans, with real life style etc.?
All soviet films which I can remember are decent.
"Рейс 222»
«ТАСС уполномочен заявить»
«Перехват»
«Нейтральные воды»
«Одиночное плавание»
«Досье человека в «мерседесе»»
«Бой после победы»
"17 мгновений весны"
и т.д.
Guaranteed for there are not people who looks like cannibals and no one (Soviet or American) kills enemies in mass quantities.
Can you remember any Soviet-made movie, where lonely super-hero slays americans by dozens (a-la Rambo III) :) ?
Nope. There were no such ones.
Now for a real twist...for Russians...
Imagine the following...THIS IS PURELY A HYPOTHESIS!
What if Hollywood produces a movie of Omon Ra???
(None of this is meant to be disrespectful of Pelevin...it is only a hypothesis for discussion as a "what if?".
Viktor Pelevin decides he wants to make a movie of Omon Ra (on my "best books" list...and I discovered Pelevin because of several Russian friends in Moscow...NOT from America). On a side-note, in America, Pelevin is a very respected writer.
He cannot find support in Russia, so he travels to America. Hollywood agrees to make the movie. But Pelevin agrees only if he has complete artistic control. He controls the making of the movie. He returns to Russia, uses only Russian actors, and films all in Russia. And he makes it accurate to his book. He is happy with the finished movie, and believes it is an accurate rendering ot the book, and his satire.
It becomes a hit in America, and receives an Academy Award. Pelevin has not "sold out" to Hollywood, and the movie is true to the book.
What are your thoughts now? The movie is definitely "Russian", from Pelevin's view and satire. Do not consider whether it "can happen"...ASSUME IT HAS HAPPENED...what do you think?
Would you be angry? Indifferent? Disgusted? Angry with Pelevin? Angry with Hollywood for giving him the money? Or, would you be happy? Proud?
Can you remember any Soviet movie, where someone Soviet kills anyone American at all?Quote:
Originally Posted by Scorpio
The only one case (with great reserve): American insurgents against American government from "Одиночное плавание" (but they are terrorists who have killed American citizens and have seized missiles to provoke to global war).
Gee! Guys, I can't believe the discussion has gone that far. Fantomaks, what's your point? Hollywood is a factory (well, ok, dream factory) not an artist's studio. Does it ring a bell?
Maybe you shouldn't take it so personal and try to watch some really decent movies. I mean, you always more or less aware what kind of movie you're going to see. Just skip the rubbish and quit whining.
Did you read the user comment on that movie? Whats with the Finns? They banned that movie by the looks of things and a whole bunch more including an Abbott and Costello movie.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rosa Anna
Huh Uh DDT, I did not catch any of that. :o
The Finns banned the movie?
I rather got the impression that the Finns had underlying "issues" with Russia judging by the way the "Finn" in Cuckoo was portrayed as so educated and the "Russian" so bumbling. (no offense our precious Vinnie!).
Red Dawn, although inaccurrate in their portrayal of Russians as anywhere near as "world" psychotic as German Nazis, did portray them as absolutely brilliant and advanced--and that was my point.
The website was my bad for clicking on the first hit. I "think" is was IMBD?
Take Care, I am typing maybe 2 wpm on this shitty keyboard because I messed up something when I moved the pc this last time----dead mouse too! arrrrrrgh!
:wink:
OH!@
I just watched russian "House of Fools" and LOVED IT all the way through. It was good because the subtitles and the language (or what little I "know" so far) matched up all the way through. I would reccommend this to a beginner.
The reason I said that it was banned if Finland is because when I clicked on the link you provided I saw where it gives the ratings for different countries. It appears to me that it was banned because it says "Finland Banned" there. Am I wrong?
MAYBE THE SITE BANNED FINLAND!? :O
OMG! PWNED!
Trigger, your a trip!
your right DDT,
I am curious what the punishment is.
Great idea, impossible although. And you are right, people in Russia would be very pissed.Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobry
Off-topic - that would be great if Strugatskies' "Picknic" was filmed, close to book with Hollywood special effects, I believe that would be a great movie. But Hollywood totally screwed up with "Solaris", although I believe that Tsarkovskiy Solaries was horrible as well.
Personally I didn't like "Solaris" as the book, but as far as I remember the Hollywood film was not that bad.
Hollywood version Solyaris.....my hair rises...huhuhuhuhhuhuh
Original version is a great work of art
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zhenya
My opinion, also.
BTW, Zhenya, I like your avatar. :wink:
me to :wink:Quote:
BTW, Zhenya, I like your avatar
Good to know there's some sanity left in the world!