Thread: Literature Talk: Russian & Non -Discuss/Review/Q&As

Greetings!

At the suggetion of CoffeeCup, I decided to spin-off the books from the Movie/Films & TV thread and this way we now have one thread for discussions about Music (and of course there is Lampada's fabulous music thread ), one for Film/TV, and now one for Literature/Books!

As with the other threads that I have started, even though I only speak English, please feel free to post about literature in any language. And as always, if you post in English, I will do my best to correct any mistakes that I may notice.

On the old thread, we have brought up the following literature/books:

• The Master and Margarita by Mikhail Bulgakov[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• The Twelve Chairs by Ilf & Petrov's[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• The Night Watch series by Sergei Lukyanenko[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• Vanity Fair by William Makepeace Thackeray (a great review was written for this one) [/*:m:13s02t2z]
• The Reader by Bernhard Schlink[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• The Raven by Edgar Allan Poe [/*:m:13s02t2z]
• Murders in the Rue Morgue by Edgar Allan Poe [/*:m:13s02t2z]
• A Streetcar Named Desire by Tennessee Williams (a play)[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• Cat on a Hot Tin Roof by Tennessee Williams (a play)[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• From the Earth to the Moon by Jules Verne[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• P.S., I love you by Ahern Cecelia[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• Pride and Prejudice and Zombies: The Classic Regency Romance - Now with Ultraviolent Zombie Mayhem! by Jane Austen and Seth Grahame-Smith[/*:m:13s02t2z]

AND...
If I understood Basil correctly, the following books all relate to a discussion about the movie Seventeen Moments of Spring and the intricacies of the plot and spies during that era and are all by Yulian Semenov:

• "Бриллианты для диктатуры пролетариата / Diamonds for the dictatorship of the proletariat" [/*:m:13s02t2z]
• "Пароль не нужен / Password is not needed"[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• Испанский вариант / Spanish version" [/*:m:13s02t2z]
• "Альтернатива / Alternative" [/*:m:13s02t2z]
• "Третья карта / The third card"[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• "Майор Вихрь / Mayor Vikhr' (Vortex). "[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• "Семнадцать мгновений весны /Seventeen Moments of Spring" by Yulian Semyonov[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• "Приказано выжить / Ordered to survive "[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• "Бомба для преседателя / Bomb for a chairman"[/*:m:13s02t2z]

So, what book, play, poetry ...

• ...are you reading?[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• ...have your recently read?[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• ...are you contemplating reading?[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• ...author do you just love?[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• ...do you want to recommend or tell us you really did not like?[/*:m:13s02t2z]
• ...are you reading but are having difficulties with? (maybe it's in not written in your native language or like me it has references to places or uses some non-native words, and you want to know more details or if the book is accurate) [/*:m:13s02t2z]

This poem comes from another thread and was suggested by studyr for my book:

The Bronze Horseman: A Petersburg Tale (Медный всадник: Петербургская повесть) by: Aleksandr Pushkin

Widely considered to be Pushkin's most successful narrative poem

The Bronze Horseman (poem) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can listen to the poem in Russian at: Bronze Horseman

You can read the poem in Russian here: http://www.rvb.ru/pushkin/01text/02poems/01poems/0795.htm?
start=0&length=all

You can read the poem in English here: The Bronze Horseman

Медный всадник!
What a marvelous combination of epic and comedy! It was my first experience of reading Pushkin's verse in Russian. Gave me some good laughs and an everlasting passion for Russian poetry. A guy told me once that there is not a single Russian who doesn't know at least a few lines of that poem by heart.
But still, I think Peter the Great was a bit too easily offended. "Ужо тебе" isn't really such a great insult for which to petrify a poor young man. I wonder what grievous curses a contemporary Evgeny would yell at the statue...

Originally Posted by rockzmom

This poem comes from another thread and was suggested by studyr for my book:

The Bronze Horseman: A Petersburg Tale (Медный всадник: Петербургская повесть) by: Aleksandr Pushkin


The Bronze Horseman (poem) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You can listen to the poem in Russian at: Bronze Horseman

You can read the poem in Russian here: http://www.rvb.ru/pushkin/01text/02poems/01poems/0795.htm?
start=0&length=all

You can read the poem in English here: The Bronze Horseman

You can also listen to the poem here: RussianDVD.com - Audio Stream - Читает Дмитрий Николаевич Журавлёв

The 2010 Nobel Prize in Literature goes to...Mario Vargas Llosa!
Whoda thunk it?!

I had enjoyed his "The Feast of the Goat" and especially "Conversation in the Cathedral", and I've been reading "Death in the Andes" lately, and now he's (finally) received his well-deserved prize.

The best part of it is that the Academy has at last come to give the Prize to someone I know! [Or perhaps I should've twisted that around?]

Originally Posted by Misha Tal

The 2010 Nobel Prize in Literature goes to...Mario Vargas Llosa!
Whoda thunk it?!

Wow! He's a great writer. For once they gave this prise to someone who deserved it.
I read a few books by him a long time ago, and I remember that I was very impressed by "The Green House".

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

For once they gave this prise to someone who deserved it.

yeah, Nobels are a joke; I can't believe anyone takes them seriously.

Just found about an on-line service which can help to select what to read next "What Should I Read Next? Book recommendations from readers like you". If you enter the book title which you like it gives you back the suggestions for further reading.

Originally Posted by CoffeeCup

Just found about an on-line service which can help to select what to read next "What Should I Read Next? Book recommendations from readers like you". If you enter the book title which you like it gives you back the suggestions for further reading.

What an interesting concept! It works off of people signing up and creating lists of books that they have read and like. So, you enter in a book you've read and it matches to the people who have that book on their lists and then returns the other book titles on their list.

BTW, my daughters got their required summer reading books. Older one has to read The Picture of Dorian Gray and the younger one has to read Peach Blossom Sping

I am planning to read "Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes though it would be a hard journey for a non-native since a great part of the story is written with mistakes as a little boy would write it. There are two versions: a short story (Hugo Award for Best Short Story) and a novel (Nebula Award for Best Novel). Anybody have an idea which one is better to start with the short story or the novel?

Originally Posted by CoffeeCup

I am planning to read "Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes though it would be a hard journey for a non-native since a great part of the story is written with mistakes as a little boy would write it. There are two versions: a short story (Hugo Award for Best Short Story) and a novel (Nebula Award for Best Novel). Anybody have an idea which one is better to start with the short story or the novel?

The complete short story is available online, and here are the first two paragraphs to give you an idea of the language:

progris riport 1-martch 5, 1965

Dr. Strauss says I shud rite down what I think and evrey thing that happins to me from now on, I dont know why but he says its importint so they will see if they will use me. I hope they use me.

Miss Kinnian says maybe they can make me smart. I want to be smart. My name is Charlie Gordon. I am 37 years old. I have nuthing more to rite now so I will close for today.

progris riport 2-martch 6

I had a test today. I think I faled it. And I think maybe now they wont use me. What happind is a nice young man was in the room and he had some white cards and ink spillled all over them. He sed Charlie what do vo see on this card. I was very skared even tho I had my rabits foot in my pockit because when I was a kid I always faled tests in school and I spillled ink to.
I told him I saw a inkblot. He said yes and it made me feel good.
I thot that was all but when I got up to go he said Charlie we are not thrn yet.


As you can see, the mistakes are mostly phonetic (e.g., "shud rite" instead of "should write"), but occasionally Charlie makes mistakes based on the shapes of letters (writing vo instead of "yo" for "you", and thrn instead of "thru" for "through").

Originally Posted by CoffeeCup

Anybody have an idea which one is better to start with the short story or the novel?

I don't know. I have only read the short story. And I don't know exactly why I couldn't bring myself to read the novel. It could be a fear of being disappointed, or in other words disbelief in that this story could be just as powerful in form of a novel. The short story is so intense... Another reason could be that I may not want to relive through this once more.

though it would be a hard journey for a non-native

It will not for you. I'm sure.

Originally Posted by CoffeeCup

I am planning to read "Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes though it would be a hard journey for a non-native since a great part of the story is written with mistakes as a little boy would write it. There are two versions: a short story (Hugo Award for Best Short Story) and a novel (Nebula Award for Best Novel). Anybody have an idea which one is better to start with the short story or the novel?

CoffeeCup,
I agree with E-Learner that you should be able to handle this book. Your English is VERY good! And if you run into troubles... I have an idea. If you recall, Olya had a thread dedicated to a movie she was watching where she posted question just about that movie. ... you could always start a thread just about this book and post questions and we can help you out.

I have never read this book or the short story. I do recall hearing about the musical as it won awards and was popular when I was in school. I'm certain I can get a copy of the full version either online or at our library if you plan on reading the full version (Throbert has already found the short version online for us) and would be willing to try and help you out with any questions.

So... let's get this summer reading underway.. between Dorian Grey and Flowers... we have a nice book selection this summer!

Thanks all for encouraging me.

Actually I already get both short and full versions on my e-reader and this is why I am swaying in my choice. If had only one version I would have no choice and no doubts .

Wow! I read the short story a long, long time ago when I was at school, but I never knew there was a novel-length version of it.

I've only read the short story.

But according to wikipedia, one big difference in the novel is the addition of a subplot about a second woman that Charlie becomes romantically/sexually involved with. (As his intelligence increases, his libido "awakens," and he starts to fall in love with his attractive young teacher, Alice Kinnian. His new sexual feelings for Miss Kinnian are referred to in the short story, but in the novel, he later meets a second woman -- she's a fun-loving "шлюха" who is quite unlike the academically-minded Miss Kinnian.)

Ultimately, both women have great difficulty dealing with the rapid changes in Charlie's personality and intelligence, though their reactions are different, just as their personalities are different.

Я, как и многие другие в России, читал детскую и юношескую (приключенческую) английскую литературу и могу сказать, что она и в переводе не перестаёт быть интересной.

Older daughter has to read The Odyssey for English class. I never had to read this in school and I don't look forward to reading this with her. I downloaded a full-cast audio version of the book and a free digital version of it to read.

Has anyone read this (or listened to it) and if so, what are your thoughts)

The Odyssey of Homer

Author:	Yuri Rasovsky; Edward Asner; Irene Worth; Homer.
Publisher:	[Ashland] : Blackstone Audiobooks, [2004]
Edition/Format:	eAudiobook : MP3 : Document : EnglishView all editions and formats
Summary:	It seems quite natural, given the original intent of The Odyssey as a story to be listened to and savored, to present this epic to the modern audience in a medium that most adheres to its aural-oral nature and the immediacy of its telling. Divided into eight one-hour segments of dramatization, each segment is followed by commentary on a particular aspect of the segment by a noted expert.
Rating:	(not yet rated) 0 with reviews - Be the first.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Older daughter has to read The Odyssey for English class. I never had to read this in school and I don't look forward to reading this with her. I downloaded a full-cast audio version of the book and a free digital version of it to read.

Has anyone read this (or listened to it) and if so, what are your thoughts)

The Odyssey of Homer

Author:	Yuri Rasovsky; Edward Asner; Irene Worth; Homer.
Publisher:	[Ashland] : Blackstone Audiobooks, [2004]
Edition/Format:	eAudiobook : MP3 : Document : EnglishView all editions and formats
Summary:	It seems quite natural, given the original intent of The Odyssey as a story to be listened to and savored, to present this epic to the modern audience in a medium that most adheres to its aural-oral nature and the immediacy of its telling. Divided into eight one-hour segments of dramatization, each segment is followed by commentary on a particular aspect of the segment by a noted expert.
Rating:	(not yet rated) 0 with reviews - Be the first.

I've never heard this voicing of the story - but I love the Odyssey, all of Homer's works.. Some would argue, but, of all the Greek writings/stories/myths/sagas/what-have-you, I think this one is by far the coolest.

You probably already know this, but the movie O Brother Where Art Thou? was (albeit loosely) based on the Iliad/Odyssey story.. For those who don't feel like digging through the old dusty version that might be something to look at.. though scholastically it won't hold water =)

The story at its heart is really simple.. This guy has to go off and do his manly/heroic duty, so he leaves his amazingly beautiful wife, sure he's only going to be gone a short time.. But the Goddess of the Sea holds him back from going home, through various crazy adventures, for - I think it's 10 years? It could be more than that, I might not be remembering right - and even when he does get back he's got to deal with other men after his woman, and a son that grew up while he was away.. In the right setting, this could totally be an American big budget movie..

There's also magic, sirens, a cyclops, some cannibals, a little war, and at least one shipwreck, so it's got something for everybody. =)

I probably didn't answer your question very well if you're looking for something specific, but I want to help if I can, anything specific I can answer for you?

EDIT: Homer loved to mess with names. Homer isn't even his real name - supposedly, he was a Babylonian by the name of Tigranes, but when the Greeks took him prisoner, he took the name "Homer" - literally homeros, or "hostage." Odysseus’ name means “trouble” in Greek, referring to both the giving and receiving of trouble—often the case in his wanderings. An example is the boar hunt in which Odysseus is injured by the boar and responds by killing it. Odysseus' heroic trait is his mētis, or "cunning intelligence": he is often described as the "Peer of Zeus in Counsel." This intelligence is most often manifested by his use of disguise and deceptive speech. His disguises take forms both physical (altering appearance) and verbal, such as telling the Cyclops Polyphemus that his name is Ουτις, "Noman", then escaping after blinding Polyphemus. When asked by other Cyclopes why he is screaming, Polyphemus replies that "No man" is hurting him, so the others assume that, "If alone as you are [Polyphemus] none uses violence on you, why, there is no avoiding the sickness sent by great Zeus; so you had better pray to your father, the lord Poseidon".The most evident flaw that Odysseus sports is that of his arrogance and his pride, or hubris. As he sails away from the island of the Cyclopes, he shouts his name and boasts that no one can defeat the "Great Odysseus". The Cyclops then throws the top half of a mountain at him and prays to his father, Poseidon, saying that Odysseus has blinded him. This enrages Poseidon, causing the god to thwart Odysseus' homecoming for a very long time.

EDIT EDIT: I'm an idiot, didn't realize this post had been answered very thoroughly.. please ignore my post if you like or if it's repetitive..

Originally Posted by kidkboom

EDIT EDIT: I'm an idiot, didn't realize this post had been answered very thoroughly.. please ignore my post if you like or if it's repetitive..

Kidkboom... I feel like the idiot as I don't see where someone else answered this...

As for what you wrote... THANK YOU.. you made the book seem VERY interesting and made me actually want to read it I'm printing out what you wrote and giving it to my daughter. If she has questions, I'll post them in a new thread so that if anyone else wants to join in we have it there.

BTW... younger daughter just finish reading Of Mice and Men (older daughter had to read it last year). This time I did read it and I'm glad I did as the the week after she finished reading it Saturday Night Live did a skit and had a reference in the skit from the book that I would never had understood if I hadn't read it. Otherwise, I felt there was absolutely no use to reading the book... sorry to anyone who liked it.

I can only find the video on Hulu and I know a number of you can't watch that, so here is the transcript of the part I'm talking about

Transcript

RICK PERRY (BILL HADER): I'm not gonna be president, am I?

MITT ROMNEY (JASON SUDEIKIS): No. No, you're not.

PERRY: Can I be your vice president?

ROMNEY: Sure, sure, sure. (Shakes his head and mouths 'no' behind Perry)

PERRY: Where are we goin' after this, Mitt?

ROMNEY: We're going to go to a nice field, where you never have to say another word. There's going to be a cow and a chicken.

PERRY: I like that. Are there rabbits?

ROMNEY: Yeah, yeah rabbits everywhere.

PERRY: Tell me about the rabbits, Mitt.

ROMNEY: You can tend the rabbits.

At this point, Romney pulls out a handgun, to shoot Perry.