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Thread: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

  1. #1
    Hanna
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    The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    This is a thread about the Police!
    What do you think about them now versus in the past (regardless of where you live..)

    I think most people agree that violent criminals, thieves and certain other people need to be controlled by the police. But so often, the police overstep the mark!

    Here in England I have no real negative experience of the police and I must say that they are surprisingly nice when you have to deal with them. Sometimes I find it annoying that they are standing around in the Metro for a silly job like catching people who don't pay... But they are forced to be civil to everyone and they are generally not very intimidating. A lot of the policemen are actually women. They don't actually wear weapons! I suspect they are a bit racist and that they discriminate against people at the bottom of society. But that does not affect me and I have never actually seen it happen.

    I don't know anything about the police in the US other than from TV... If you live there, what's your view and/or experience?

    I have heard and read MANY stories now about police in Russia; that the police is out of control: taking bribes, stopping innocent people/drivers to demand fines and beating up people they take dislike to. I don't know if it is true or not - a lot of the info about Russia on the web is quite exaggerated.

    What's your view on the above -- true / false, right or wrong? Are you scared of trouble with the police? Have you had any trouble?

    What about Ukraine and any other ex-USSR countries?

    But in Sweden recently the police is getting increasingly unpleasant.. The police tend to be VERY large guys (>2m and bodybuilders..), dressed in uniforms that look like they are from a scary sci-fi thriller. Instead of talking to people in a NORMAL tone of voice like the English police, they speak with a harsh accusatory tone of voice. When people speak back to them, they get accused of being drunk or under the influence of drugs which means they can be taken to the police station for a test. Frankly, they are intimidating and people do not really dare to challenge them since they hav the law on their side. However they are not corrupt and there are no SERIOUS miscarriages of justice along the lines of what seems (?) to be happening in Russia.


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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    they are standing around in the Metro for a silly job like catching people who don't pay...
    Does that happen in England, too???


    Seriously, although I haven't dealt with our police personally, I believe that the info you found on the Internet is true, and I also believe that in the Russian police there is a total chaos as everywhere in Russia.

    P.S. The photo is great.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  3. #3
    Hanna
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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Yeah, they do. And the irritating thing about this is

    1) Public transport in London is EXTREMELY expensive and
    2) It is also not very good...

    So you think: "This bloody train is 30 minutes late, but all they care about is making sure I pay my $4 for travelling two stations... "

    Something interesting is happening in Sweden on this front. People born in the 1970s and 1980s still remember the times when it was almost free to travel on public transport, and the transport was quite good. The quality is the same, but it costs about 4-5 times more to travel. A lot of people want the old system back, whereby the public transport is financed by taxes and the price is symbolic.

    In order to support this, there is a new online movement which supports it politically and informs people how to travel for free, what to do if they are approached by a guard etc. They also have an "insurance policy" which people pay a small fee to. Then if they get caught, they send the fine to the organisation and it gets paid....

    Their site is very funny; this is one of their information videos for getting into the Metro in Stockholm (getting out is not a problem, the door just opens for everyone). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVfkrpjhhmE However, the guy who is jumping over the gate must be very tall. I am tall too (1.7 but I would never try to jump over these gates. He must be at least 1.9m.

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    About 90% of things I read about Russia in the Western media are insanely exaggerated or outright idiotic. Take them with a grain of salt.
    -- Да? Коту Ваське, бл##?
    -- Нет, Я кот Васька :-/

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    The police tend to be VERY large guys (>2m and bodybuilders..),
    in the past in the US the police had a reputation for liking donuts, now they're all built like linebackers (picture: big and muscular.) There is no culture of corruption, I would never dream of offering a cop a bribe. As far as attitude there is a lot of variance, from complete arrogant asshole to decent. Always remember, a cop is the most powerful person you will meet on the street, so act accordingly.
    Кому - нары, кому - Канары.

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    In the USA over 30 years ago the motto for many police departments was "Serve and Protect". Now it seems it should be "Hide and Collect". I live in the suburbs and the police here instead of cleaning up the bad side of town will be hiding behind bushes in their car in order to write speeding tickets. Why? I travel on the Garden State Parkway to go to work and there are days I will see about 10 police cars that have pulled cars over. Yet there are very bad parts of towns in New Jersey:

    Camden
    Newark
    Jersey City
    Atlantic City
    Paterson
    Asbury Park

    Why not use the ticket writers to help the folks out in these cities?


    Scott

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    SAn
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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    My friends who were captured by the police told shocking stories to me. Policemen:
    • Plunt drugs on innocent people;[/*:m:g1q970th]
    • Charge people with unsolved crime (to enchance crime solving rate);[/*:m:g1q970th]
    • Violently beat people in a way to not leave marks on the body (and they will not allow relatives to visit victim untill he stops peeing with blood);[/*:m:g1q970th]
    • Take away personal belongings.[/*:m:g1q970th]

    And the very distressing part is that the law is always at their side. It is nearly impossible to establish policeman's guilt. Listed cases usually end with bribe given to police in order to release victim, and months of fruitless attempts of the family to «right a wrong».

    Interesting fact is that Moscow policemen are angels compared, for example, with Taganrog policemen. So, do not listen to Moscow citizens—they do not have the full picture of what is going on in Russia. The muscovites can not imagine that one of the profitable job in a town can be steel melting 10 hours a day for 15000 rubles salary ($500/month, such workers usually die when they are under 60). One typical advertisement I have seen in Taganrog: «The cleaner is needed to kindergarten. The salary is 2000 rubles per month». So, policemen have the same low salary as others, and they doing their best to earn additional means.

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    But they are forced to be civil to everyone and they are generally not very intimidating. A lot of the policemen are actually women. They don't actually wear weapons!
    I wonder what use these chick coppers without guns can be! I'm sure they just get in the way when there is real trouble.

    Recently in Sydney Australia two of these "chick coppers" (who actually do carry guns) were beat up by one man. He was just about to take the club off one of the women and finish her off when some of the regular Australian men who were walking by grabbed him and saved the two women from an even worse fate. To illustrate how most of these females are unqualified to be a police officer I can relate a story of one women, who recently graduating from the "academy" which is nothing more than a glorified university campus in Golburn NSW, asked her superior if she "could leave the bullets out of her gun until she needed it" because she felt safer with it unloaded. Another police woman left her male partner alone in time of trouble and went and sat in the squad car and cried. Another chick copper was shot at point-blank range inside a police station. Her assailant jumped over the counter, grabbed her gun, shot her and then ran away.

    Or how about this one, a S. Australian woman cop was interviewing a witness who got angry at her and broke her neck (hauled her over the back of the couch they were sitting on).
    She didn't die but soon after returning to work, she cautioned a cyclist for not wearing a helmet and he put her in a headlock and broke her neck a second time. A male police officer had to be called to tear the cyclist off her.

    Or this: Two female police officers tred to apprehend two females who may have been heroin addicts. They could not subdue the two. Luckily there were some taxi drivers nearby who put them down on the ground in a matter of seconds.

    The chief of police in the state of NSW (another chick copper) has declared that it is her intention to make the NSW Police 50% female! This means that female police will be working together without the assistance of a male policeman. Most of the male cops that I have talked to think that this is a very bad idea. Most police departments in the USA do not put two women together!
    Let me be a free man, free to travel, free to stop, free to work, free to trade where I choose, free to choose my own teachers, free to follow the religion of my fathers, free to talk, think and act for myself. - Chief Joseph, Nez Perce

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Johanna,

    The police here in the US are very reasonable. As we don't have a metro or public transportation system in my city, they usually are in patrol cars or in the (very short) summer they sometimes will ride motorcycles or bikes. As long as you aren't doing anything exaggerated they generally don't care... i.e. if you are going 8 mph over the speed limit they rarely will pull you over. However, if your car is full of people who resemble gangsters and you are driving somewhat erratically at late hours, then you might worry. But they never really use excessive force and like sperk (i think) said previously, I would never even fathom trying to bribe a cop. They get paid reasonably well here, starting at 50,000 dollars [37,000 euros roughly] per year. I think this is reasonable considering the danger our cops face on a day to day basis because of the fact that most people have guns (both law abiding citizens and criminals), although cops are rarely killed.

    Regarding police in Russia - I don't know, although I myself am studying in St. Petersburg next year, and many Russian expats here whom I've talked to all warn me to avoid cops and to not draw attention to myself.

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    I don't know about the US, but in my city the police are so bad. It's not that they are corrupt or intimidating, but THEY DON'T DO THEIR JOB! Crime has gotten so bad in my city, and I don't even live in a very large city. We don't have enough police officers, and we do not have enough prisons. The police are sitting at the stations or in their cars playing on the computer instead of cruising around the streets looking for crime. The problem is that people just join the police force because of all of the benefits. They are able to retire at 50 with a huge amounts of money from working over time. So they don't really care about their job. The city does seem to try and take a little action. They hired a helicopter to fly over the city, but that isn't doing anything besides sucking up money.

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Quote Originally Posted by whipback
    I don't know about the US, but in my city the police are so bad.
    And where would that be?
    There’s a little word Location under your avatar. Wouldn’t it be easier for all of us to know whom we are talking to if you placed your country’s name there?

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    I live in Omaha, NE. I guess I never found the need to add my location. Why would someone need to know where I live in order to know if they are talking to me or not?

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    For one thing to avoid confusion.
    When you said you didn’t know about US it meant you came from elsewhere. Now it turns out you are from US. Do you think it did you a great harm to disclose such a secret?))

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Saying I don't know about the US doesn't mean I don't live in the US(????). I'm just saying that different parts of the country work differently so I can only speak for my city. If I would have said all the police in the US don't do their jobs I would have gotten a million people telling me I am wrong.

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Quote Originally Posted by whipback
    ...
    Since the thread is about the police in different places of the world, your answer without any info where you live naturally makes people wonder what place you mean. That's not about getting personal data.
    Please correct my English

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Quote Originally Posted by Ленивец
    Quote Originally Posted by whipback
    ...
    Since the thread is about the police in different places of the world, your answer without any info where you live naturally makes people wonder what place you mean. That's not about getting personal data.
    not to mention the fact that you said you don't know about the US (implying some secret, mystery location)...then later reveal that you live there???!!!
    Кому - нары, кому - Канары.

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    I think that the horror of Russian/post-Soviet police is slightly eggagerated. Granted I am a girl, and thus I have a very minor chance to be assaulted by the police, but still...

    In my life I had only three direct encounters with police, and only one of them was negative.
    Twice I was interviewed as a potential witness (about a rape and a murder victim). Both times I didn't know anything and was absolutely useless (the kind of annoying witness who says: "Wait! I think I remembered something.. Ah, no. I got it wrong). Nevetheless the police officers were very polite and patient.

    The third time I was assaulted by some man who flashed his ID at me and accused me of drug trafficking (I was near a rail station and had a carton box with me). Then he dragged me (literally) to the nearby deserted alley, where it was so dark that I could hardly see his face. Considering that he looked like a crazed maniak, practically foaming at the mouth, I was beginning to wonder if I should cry for help, before he tried to kill me or something.
    To make the long story short, he threatened a lot (and got indignant when I said that I didn't know what the abbreviation in his ID means ), I tried to reason with him in that calm manner you reserve for dangerous loonies, then he thrashed my box (from pure spite, I think), and we parted our ways. I was unharmed, if a little shaken, I did not give him any money, and the only things that I lost were three smashed pears (there were fruits in the box).

    So.. it was not so bad, really.

    Ok, it's only a single instance, but I wanted to contribute. )))

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    Quote Originally Posted by sperk
    Quote Originally Posted by Ленивец
    Quote Originally Posted by whipback
    ...
    Since the thread is about the police in different places of the world, your answer without any info where you live naturally makes people wonder what place you mean. That's not about getting personal data.
    not to mention the fact that you said you don't know about the US (implying some secret, mystery location)...then later reveal that you live there???!!!
    I don't know if you didn't read my last post or what, but because I said I didn't know about US doesn't imply anything about me living somewhere else(I meant that I didn't know about the rest of the US). It would make sense if I had said something like "I don't know about the US, but in my country" but it doesn't make sense to randomly say you don't know about a country and then start talking about your city. It really isn't as big of a deal as you guys are making it. You know where I live now so there is no point in arguing about it.

  19. #19
    Hanna
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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    No worries Whiplack, you clearly meant to say "I don't know about the REST of the US" but you accidentally missed the little word "rest". I thought you were Canadian or Australian. But no harm done and it's interesting to "meet" someone who comes from the real heart of the USA. Omaha is just such a funky name for a city. I don't care one bit for Hollywood, Disneyland or the statue of Liberty, but I'd quite like to see the "real" USA, cities such as yours or Rockzmoms. My location also looks "mysterious" at the moment. I put EU but I am Swedish temporarily living in London (UK).


    @Gromozeka, what a crazy experience!!! What was the ID that the man showed? How bizarre!

    I'm lucky that nothing really bad ever happened to me. Just the usual things that happen to most women at some point in life: Some man behaving strangely, exposing himelf (happened to me in the metro in Stockholm), someone "shadowed" me once when I was walking home, late at night. Really spooke because the streets were empty. But nothing happened, I just ran in through the front door and slammed it and made sure it was locked. It was a block of flats. Another time a gang of girls tried to rob me of my wallet, here in England. But I could tell they were not fit, so I just ran away from them! I am tall and run fast for a woman. (Just one more reason why it's insane to walk around in high heels - you can't protect yourself or run away from dangerous situations in heels!)

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    Re: The Police in Russia, USA, Europe..

    My friends who were captured by the police told shocking stories to me. Policemen:

    * Plunt drugs on innocent people;
    * Charge people with unsolved crime (to enchance crime solving rate);
    * Violently beat people in a way to not leave marks on the body (and they will not allow relatives to visit victim untill he stops peeing with blood);
    * Take away personal belongings.

    And the very distressing part is that the law is always at their side. It is nearly impossible to establish policeman's guilt. Listed cases usually end with bribe given to police in order to release victim, and months of fruitless attempts of the family to «right a wrong».

    Interesting fact is that Moscow policemen are angels compared, for example, with Taganrog policemen. So, do not listen to Moscow citizens—they do not have the full picture of what is going on in Russia. The muscovites can not imagine that one of the profitable job in a town can be steel melting 10 hours a day for 15000 rubles salary ($500/month, such workers usually die when they are under 60). One typical advertisement I have seen in Taganrog: «The cleaner is needed to kindergarten. The salary is 2000 rubles per month». So, policemen have the same low salary as others, and they doing their best to earn additional means.
    +1

    I can't talk for the rest of Russia, but here in province things are bad.

    People here in province can be divided on 3 categories:
    1. Top (politicans, well known rich business-men, top managers/directors of various communal service departments (including police), etc.)
    2. Middle (educated well enough, such as enterpreneurs with a tiny business, managers of various departments/trade enterprises, jurists etc.)
    3. Bottom. (People who just live their lives. Usual people, who earn $1500-7000 PER YEAR! and they're not able to "fight for themselves")

    I'm not sure about "fight for themselves" (постоять за себя), I mean it not in physical but relative to the topic (if a policeman tries to do something wrong to such person). They have no powerful support as friends/relatieves from 1-2 categories and they are defenceless for both police and criminals.

    Next:
    There are various types of police (милиция btw) here in Russia.
    1. Criminal police
    2. Road police
    Criminal police has many departments like economy crimes, patrolling, inquest, investigation, struggle against organized crime, etc.

    Okay, next: Street police officers perfectly differ people belonging to above categories and behave themselves accordingly.

    Situation: a man from cat.1 fights an old women from cat.3.
    Result: If she's not in a hospital, she is in a police department like "she started beating him up". He is free anyway. If she's in a hospital, then "the criminal wasn't found".

    You can meet only 2 of them on Russian streets: (ППС и ДПС) - patrols and road police. (If you won't catch the "luck" to be in a plane with terrorists . Then you will meet "spetsnaz" )

    Road police: They're good enough. Although they take bribes sometimes, it's not bad, because what would you prefer - to pay $40 or to let your driver license to be taken off for a 1-1.5 years. If you don't break rules, they can stop you, check documents, explore your car, and let you go if everything's okay.

    Patrol one: Same situation, but it's better to not attract their attention with huge bags, loud speaking, suspicious behaviour etc. Otherwise you're at risk to spend the night in a police department.

    Well, that's probably all, and of course, "I don't like very much to stay uncorrected".
    Another month ends. All targets met. All systems working. All customers satisfied. All staff eagerly enthusiastic. All pigs fed and ready to fly.

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