Thread: NonRussian films (work in progress)

Dear All!
Lampada is here.
I want to try to split the huge movie topic in two. So, please, bear with me.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

Thanks, Shurick! I will add this title to my long list and see if I can find an English subtitled version.

http://subs.com.ru/page.php?id=4701 Subtitles for this movie

I've seen the original and I remember wondering at the end if that boy was actually a murderer or not, though as far as I understand it wasn't the point at all, it was all about how to deal with people, so I see how it could be relevant to management.

E-Learner...So, you saw the original 12 Angry Men... did you by any chance see the Russian remake that Lt. Columbo and Olya are speaking about?

If so, what did you think about it?

How did you think it compared to the original?

If not, would you be willing to watch it and then post a review???

Also, anyone one else who might have seen the American and Russian versions? I am interested in learning your thoughts on these two films as I don’t know how many films are out there that fit this category (American and Russian versions of same film).

Does anyone know of other films like this one???

Lt. Columbo, what about you… did you see the American version??? If not... go watch it (with your girlfriend of course)... and then post your thoughts... please

I know Lt. Columbo already had a thread about this film; however, most of it was in Russian and I simply could not understand it. Please accept my apologizes if you are repeating your comments in English now.

I have seen the American original version and for me it's better than Russian one. I can't write a review since I don't remember it well, I just remember it was more or less a good movie and it was MUCH better than Mikhalkov's "12".

Originally Posted by Оля

Soviet cinema was great, it was true ART, it was about people and for people. And the modern Russian cinema is nothing but poor attempts at Hollywood.

Мне и самому из современных русских фильмов нравятся только 2-3, но ставить весь современный русский кинематограф в один ряд с Голливудом я бы не стал. Бюджет их фильмов средней паршивости минимум пятьдесят миллионов, а русских - максимум в десять раз меньше.

Originally Posted by delog

но ставить весь современный русский кинематограф в один ряд с Голливудом я бы не стал.

Так и я вроде не ставила их в один ряд. Я написала, что современное российское кино - это жалкие потуги на Голливуд.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

So, you saw the original 12 Angry Men... did you by any chance see the Russian remake that Lt. Columbo and Olya are speaking about?

I intended to do that for quite a long time now but never braced myself for it because the last film by Mikhalkov that I've seen was to me a complete waste of time, I don't even remember it's name or what it was about except that it was "patriotic", or at least Russian media hailed it as such.
I was going to watch "12" as I had already seen "12 Angry Men" and was just curious. Maybe I will, after all.

If not, would you be willing to watch it and then post a review???

Not much hope for a review. I never wrote them and I'm not a great fan of cinema anyway. A couple of words, maybe.

Originally Posted by delog

Мне и самому из современных русских фильмов нравятся только 2-3, но ставить весь современный русский кинематограф в один ряд с Голливудом я бы не стал. Бюджет их фильмов средней паршивости минимум пятьдесят миллионов, а русских - максимум в десять раз меньше.

Не всё измеряется количеством денег. В Голливуде компании снимают кино на свои деньги и не бегают в министерство культуры за подачками, и провалы им не нужны, поэтому даже в самый паршивый сериал привлекаются талантливые актеры, а к сценариям требования ещё жестче. Отсюда и качество их фильмов и говничество наших, когда сценарии дают писать разным "гениальным" бредунам, близким к кормушке, вроде Михалкова, - верным вассалам идей дерьмократии. Для таких шпанец из Дома-2 уже Актёр с большой буквы.

Would one of the very talented people would understands BOTH Russian AND English please read the above posts for me and let me know if they are just chats or if they have wonderful fantastic information that I would just love to know but unfortunately will never because I am not educated in your wonderful Russian language?

I sincerely want everyone to feel comfortable posting on this thread, whether it be in Russian or English as I value all comments, big or small (even a one sentence review E-Learner!); however, I just need someone to please, please, please, help me out whenever you see a post in Russian, to please translate it for me.

Sorry rockzmom. In my own post I said that the best russian language film I've seen is The Return (Возвращения), which came out in 2003. It's my favourite for a few reasons: the acting is great, the scenery gorgeous, and it has a touching story.

I highly recommend it.

Originally Posted by Оля

Так и я вроде не ставила их в один ряд. Я написала, что современное российское кино - это жалкие потуги на Голливуд.

Да, именно это и называется "ставить в один ряд". Гораздо уместнее было бы сравнивать с какими-нибудь францускими студиями, например с Gaumont Pictures или Le Film d'Art.

Originally Posted by Cocos

Не всё измеряется количеством денег.

Верно, но всех людей в мире, способных сделать из ничего что-то, можно пересчитать по пальцам, остальные же могут только превращать деньги в исскуство и искусство в деньги (и то не все).

Originally Posted by rockzmom

they are just chats or if they have wonderful fantastic information

There are no useful (even more so fantastic) information, just a chat (except ski-ops's post, of course).

Originally Posted by ski-ops

Самый лучший фильм, который я видел на русском языке - "Возвращение", вышел в 2003-м году. Замечательные актеры, особенно [s:2w48onao]младший[/s:2w48onao] самый молодой актер, красивые [s:2w48onao]природы[/s:2w48onao] пейзажи (природа can't be in plural)_ /no comma/ и эмоциональный и тяжёлый сюжет.

Об этом_ будет (было бы) интересно услышать мнение Оли, которая, [s:2w48onao]казалась[/s:2w48onao] кажется, особенно [s:2w48onao]критический о современных русских фильмах[/s:2w48onao] критически относится к современным русским фильмам.

Кстати, я думаю, [s:2w48onao]можно ли сказать мне[/s:2w48onao] что могу сказать (здесь) о "Сталкере" - это один из моих любимых советских фильмов. Я прочитал, что туда добавили музыку недавно, [s:2w48onao]и музыка не была раньше, на первом версии[/s:2w48onao] а раньше ее не было, в первой версии - это правда?

About music in "Stalker" - I don't know.

As for "Возвращение" - it's not bad for me. But... I don't share common deligh about it. First of all, the film seemed... Italian or something to me. I mean, I did not recognize Russian environment in it. Say, a house. I never saw houses like that in Russia (of course, it doesn't mean there are not any at all, but it's just my impressions). I think all this looked rather like an Italian house and Italian family. Well, Italian or something. Somewhere in the south. While I was watching the movie, I was not able to understand where it happened - I mean not only a country, but a region or a city, too. I think those guys easily could turn out Europeans, not Russians - there would not be needed to change anything in the movie. So this part was abstract to me. So less the movie touched me.

ski-ops & delog!

Thanks for your lightening fast responses and no need to apologize!!!! I am the one here without the proper skill set.

Though, I have installed the Cyrillic alphabet onto my desktop from
http://www.languagehelpers.com/Russi...nAlphabet.html in hopes that within say, six or seven months, I might actually be able to learn them and pronounce the letters to a level that someone would understand me.

Originally Posted by ski-ops

..the best russian language film I've seen is The Return (Возвращения), which came out in 2003...I highly recommend it.

I will add "The Return" to my list and see if I can find a copy online with subtitles.

[quote:104o8mzj]Я написала, что современное российское кино - это жалкие потуги на Голливуд.

Да, именно это и называется "ставить в один ряд". [/quote:104o8mzj]
Простите, delog, но это НЕ называется "ставить в один ряд". Это называется сказать то, что я сказала. Потуги - они потуги и есть.

ski-ops...

How sad....I just read... "Actor Vladimir Garin, who played Andrei, drowned shortly after the end of shooting in a lake near the one where several of the picture's scenes were filmed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film)

There is an 8 minute clip online for anyone who wants to just watch a short bit of the film (no subtitles though)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf3TexZCFqo

Originally Posted by Оля

As for "Возвращение" - it's not bad for me (here it sounds better to say 'it's not bad in my opinion'). But... I don't share common delight in it. First of all, the film seemed... Italian or something to me. I mean, I did not recognize the Russian environment in it. Say, a house. I never saw houses like that in Russia (of course, it doesn't mean there are not any at all, but it's just my impression_). I think all this looked rather like an Italian house and Italian family. Well, Italian or something. Somewhere in the south. While I was watching the movie, I was not able to understand where it happened - I mean not only a country, but a region or a city either. I think those guys easily could turn out Europeans, not Russians - there would not be any need to change anything in the movie. So this part was abstract to me. So the movie touched me less.

Oh, that's odd. I read a little about the movie and it was definitely filmed in Russia, not far from St. Petersberg.

I wonder if any other russians noted anything similar when watching the movie. I would hate to think such an element could ruin what should be a character and relationship driven story.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

ski-ops...

How sad....I just read... "Actor Vladimir Garin, who played Andrei, drowned shortly after the end of shooting in a lake near the one where several of the picture's scenes were filmed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film)

Yeah, it adds another sad element to an already poignant film.

Originally Posted by rockzmom

(even a one sentence review E-Learner!)

Be it for better or worse, but it turned out to be rather more.

I’ve watched “12” yesterday. After that I re-watched “12 Angry Men” (1957), just couldn’t help myself .

My overall impression – I like “12 Angry Men” more.

What follows are my impressions, disconnected and inconsistent, of and from different aspects and scenes of “12”.

In my understanding of the word “remake” “12” isn’t a remake of “12 Angry Men”. Although many details of the original story are kept intact, the story as a whole is used just as a framework for depicting contemporary Russia. My impression is that they packed too much into this film and were unable to cope with it properly.

They did a good job in making the film to feel Russian. After one particular episode I found myself thinking: "It just couldn’t be like that in the original but it’s exactly how it must be!” And sure enough, re-watching “12 Angry Men”, I found that scene remarkably different.
It’s a scene where they vote for the very first time.
Americans:
The chairman invites to vote guilty. People raise their hands. People keep their hands raised so that the chairman could count them, which he does: “One, two, three, four, five, six, seven …. (a pause, one man didn’t raise his hand) eight, nine, ten, eleven.” The procedure is repeated for “not guilty”. One man. Somebody says: “Boy, oh boy. There’s always one.”
People are unpleasantly surprised. They are annoyed. Still, their attitude is of “Well, s**t happens, but nothing’s extraordinary there, we will cope with this, one way or the other.”
Russians:
Somebody asks for clarification whether the first vote is for guilty or not guilty and somebody else says: “Did you ever vote? Just raise your hand and all will be OK!” (It’s a joke, of course, but truthful and, in the circumstance, frightening joke.) The chairman invites to vote guilty. People raise their hands. Somebody, habitually, says “unanimous”. People immediately start leaving the table. The chairman insists that the procedure should be completed. People return (nobody has the slightest idea that somebody didn’t vote, nobody can even imagine that that could happen). Voting for not guilty. The chairman, habitually, begins to say “no….” and then notices a man with a raised hand, as he’s sitting not far away. It takes some time for the idea to sink in.
People are stunned.
Now, I don’t know whether the American procedure is depicted true to the American character, you tell me that, but I can tell you that that scene in “12” feels painfully truthful.

I think that story of “12 Angry Men” isn’t very believable on Russian material. Or maybe they didn’t know how to make it believable. Also, acting. It wasn’t very convincing. I don’t know who’s to blame for that - actors or scriptwriters. One scene was especially painful to watch. It’s the last speech of the man who was the last to surrender. It was clearly constructed so as to bring tears to viewers’ eyes. In my case it failed to do that utterly (the American one succeeded).

And the last thing. “12” is quite openly politically charged. I don’t like that sort of thing and I don’t want to talk about it.

Originally Posted by E-learner

Originally Posted by rockzmom

(even a one sentence review E-Learner!)

Be it for better or worse, but it turned out to be rather more.

Yes, you indeed do more! E-learner, you did a fanstastic job on your review !

I may have to rewatch 12 Angry Men myself after I watch 12.

Originally Posted by E-learner

Now, I don’t know whether the American procedure is depicted true to the American character, you tell me that, but I can tell you that that scene in “12” feels painfully truthful.

Both my husband and I have served on American Jury Trials. They were both one day simple trials. I asked him this question as well and both of us remember that we did paper ballots and it was after a brief discussion of the facts. It was not right away.

Now, in my trial, in the courtroom after the vertict was read, our jury was asked for a "poll." This can be done and it means that we were eached asked our verdict in the case
http://law.jrank.org/pages/9266/Polling-Jury.html.

Book Talk!!!

We haven’t talked about books too much and I want to for just a quick few minutes.

As I mentioned, I purchased the three books from the “Watch” series that are available here in the U.S. (the fourth one had a printing error and is scheduled to come out in March).

I started reading Night Watch the first chapter takes the reader to the Moscow Metro and listed several names of stops. I wondered if these were actual names of stops or made up ones so I went to the computer and pulled up a map of the Metro and sure enough, there on the Orange Line (or do you call it line 6?), were the stops from the book; Prospekt Mira, Rizhskaya, Alekseevskaya, and Exhibition (it takes so little to amuse me)!

Also during the first few pages, the main character, Anton, is listening to music. The lyrics from the song he is listening to are printed in the book and they are of course in English. I wondered what the corresponding song was in the original Russian version. I sent off a PM to the forum member who suggested the movie to see if they had a copy of the book since they had mentioned that they had read it. They did and scanned for me not only the pages that had the song, but the cover of their book as well (you forum people are so nice ).

It turns out that the same song was used for both books. A song by the group, “Blackmore's Night” called “Shadow Of The Moon” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArOS_WsT1tw

Now, what is even more interesting to me was that the lyrics in the Russian version, were also in English and when I saw the scanned page from the Russian book, I immediately noticed that the lyrics had several typographical errors.

The lyrics should read:

Feel no sorrow, feel no pain
Feel no hurt, there’s nothing gained…
Only love will then remain,
She would say.


Here is a scan of that page.


I also thought that the Russian cover was much better than the U.S. cover. With the U.S. cover, you have no clue as to what the book might be about. The Russian cover at least gives you a clue that the book has vampires. Now, of course, this could be good or bad, if you want the element of surprise… On the back of the U.S. book, the description does state… “Others. They walk among us, observing. Set in contemporary Moscow, where shape shifters, vampires, and street sorcerers linger in the shadows, Night Watch is the first book of the hyper-imaginative fantasy trilogy from bestselling Russian author Sergei Lukyanenko.” Now to be honest, based upon that and the boring cover, I probably would not have bought this book.

Here are copies of both covers.
RU Version


US Version