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Hmm... It's a bit strange to hear. :) This novell is written in quite a dry, non-artistic language. Of course, the translation must have been done in a better English. :) I read it long ago, and all I remember now is the terribly dry, formal style of the book. As far as I know, the author himself didn't consider his novell a work of art. He was not a writer, he was a публицист (Lingvo gives "writer of political essays" for this word).Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldeyez
I bought this book today at a shop in London:
http://www.learnrussianlanguagenow.c...0486262448.jpg
http://img214.imageshack.us/img214/9854/fgfghfghfgh.jpg
I immediately liked Pushkin (whom I have not read before) after reading a few pages on tube (metro) home.
Maybe Mayakovsky is just hard to translate well...?Quote:
Originally Posted by translationsnmru
Perhaps it sounds best in Russian. (Something is "lost in translation")
I read something by him in school and didn't like it at all...
The teacher loved Maykovsky and raved about his greatness and unique style. None of the students could understand why she liked it. But she happened to know Russian so maybe she had read it in Russian originally.
I have super-simple and unsophisticated taste in poetry. :oops: Something about nature, love, loneliness or patriotism that rhymes! :good:
Then you definetely should read Pushkin's poetry in Russian. :) You can start from his fairytales:Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsMUP9h17uI
The only thing I read from this is "Спать хочется" by Chekhov and it's not my favourite from his short stories. :?Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
"Станционный смотритель" I probably read but I don't remember what it was about at all. Pushkin's novels are quite good in general and very readable. Pushkin is, as the saying goes, "наше всё". :-)
I liked it to when I read it at school. I know it's criticised a lot and not considered great literature but I enjoyed its plot nonetheless.Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
I'm now making my way through "The Dead Souls"/"Мёртвые души" by Gogol. Haven't managed it at school.
Me and poetry don't go well together either. The only things I ever enjoyed were Pushkin's verses/fairy-tales but I think I'm starting to learn to appreciate it a bit more. I was really impressed by one poem/verse when I was a teen -- Rudyard Kipling's "If." It was my favourite for years. :roll:Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
If
If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you;
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too;
If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
Or, being lied about, don't deal in lies,
Or, being hated, don't give way to hating,
And yet don't look too good, nor talk too wise;
If you can dream - and not make dreams your master;
If you can think - and not make thoughts your aim;
If you can meet with triumph and disaster
And treat those two imposters just the same;
If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,
Or watch the things you gave your life to broken,
And stoop and build 'em up with wornout tools;
If you can make one heap of all your winnings
And risk it on one turn of pitch-and-toss,
And lose, and start again at your beginnings
And never breath a word about your loss;
If you can force your heart and nerve and sinew
To serve your turn long after they are gone,
And so hold on when there is nothing in you
Except the Will which says to them: "Hold on";
If you can talk with crowds and keep your virtue,
Or walk with kings - nor lose the common touch;
If neither foes nor loving friends can hurt you;
If all men count with you, but none too much;
If you can fill the unforgiving minute
With sixty seconds' worth of distance run -
Yours is the Earth and everything that's in it,
And - which is more - you'll be a Man my son!
I personally love some of Mayakovsky's poems. He was a hooligan, an experimentalist. He was untamed and passionate about what he was doing, and you literally can see his time in his poetry. Even his ridiculous poem about Soviet passport, that caused a lot of salty jokes, is.. kinda cool. "I pull out of my wide trousers a duplicate of a priceless cargo... " :lol:
But one of my favourite Russian poets is Gumilev. His poems are pure magic: love and death, bright colours and moonlit lights, exotic countries and shamans, beautiful women and conquistadors.. I recommend him to anyone, who's a romantic (I'm not, but even I was enchanted). :thumbs: He also had an interesting, but tragic life.
Here are a few of his poems in English (not his best, though):
http://www.poetryloverspage.com/yevgeny/gumilev/
And a huge collection of his poems in Russian. Try them on random, maybe you'll like something:
http://gumilev.ru/verses/line/all/
I think his poems are rather easy to understand for a Russian learner. Just an example:
Сон. Утренняя болтовня
Вы сегодня так красивы,
Что вы видели во сне?
— Берег, ивы при луне..
А еще? К ночному склону
Не приходят, не любя.
— Дездемону и себя..
Вы глядите так несмело:
Кто там был за купой ив?
— Был Отелло, он красив..
Был ли он вас двух достоин?
Был ли он как лунный свет?
— Да, он воин и поэт.
О какой же пел он ныне
Неоткрытой красоте?
— О пустыне и мечте.
И вы слушали влюбленно,
Нежной грусти не тая?
— Дездемона, но не я. —
These ones are nice and easy too:
Принцесса
Отравленный
Tell me what you think of him, if you decide to try it, Johanna. ;)
Я достаю из широких штанинQuote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Нечто похожее на дуло танка
Смотрите, завидуйте - я гражданин,
А не какая-то там гражданка!
:lol:
Классика жанра. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
А мы еще такие стишки Маяковского в школе проходили (это оригинал :D):
Лошадь сказала, взглянув на верблюда:
"Какая гигантская лошадь-ублюдок".
Верблюд же вскричал: "Да лошадь разве ты?!
Ты просто-напросто - верблюд недоразвитый".
И знал лишь бог седобородый,
что это - животные разной породы.
В общем, человек развлекался, как мог.. ))
That is LOVELY. Thank you so much for posting it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
I saw so many great Russian cartoons in my childhood but it's hard to remember which was which and what they were called. I don't think I have seen that one before - what a loss, it's beautiful!
I am beginning to really like Pushkin. I had thought he was "too sophisticated/advanced" for my simple taste in literature and poetry. Maybe I just hadn't "given him a chance..."
Speaking about kids stuff from Russia... Peter and the Wolf! Was this famous in other countries too? If anyone from the US, Germany etc reads this, can you remember a play / story by this name? It was a sort of "interactive musical" for children - classical music + fairytale.
EDIT: British Peter and the Wolf: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_QKPk...eature=related
Starrysky: Yes -- Kipling is one of the few poets I appreciate in English. I am willing to admit that Shakespeare is not among them but I probably would be kicked out of the country if an English person heard me say that... The language is too inaccessible. I think his PLOTS are good though, I just can't stand reading it, or listening to that type of old fashioned stiff English.
Gromozeka: No Gromilev does not appeal to me in English and I can't read Russian well enough yet.. But like I said, poetry is largely lost on me unless it's 100% straight forward..
:unknown: I would like to be a person who can really enjoy poetry... But sadly I am not.
But because you recommend him, I will add this to my "Russian poets" list to read in Russian in the future - along with Anna Akhmatova.
I also believe that most people are only truly able to appreciate poetry in their own native language as we have discussed here previously.
He was her husband, by the way. :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
I love Gumilev, too.
Salinger died :(
Yes... Well, at least he lived to be 92.
It's strange but somehow "The Catcher in The Rye" never fails to lift my mood. Strange, because Holden seems to be depressed and whining through the whole book but somehow there is humour in it...
But actually "The Catcher in the Rye" is a bit demoralising for those that read it (teenagers). It confirms their feelings that the world and a lot of people in it are "phony", "fake" and "cheesy".
I remember being incredibly disillusioned with everything while reading this book. I *really* identified with Holden because my situation at the time had a lot in common with his life. I started feeling like an outsider, similar to Holden. Not sure this was such a great outcome.
The man who shot John Lennon somehow linked the shooting to the book (not quite sure how). But when he was caught he kept talking about this book. Not a good sign!
It's also unclear if the book has a happy ending. Holden is sent to some kind of clinic for children with emotional issues (not clarified in details). He mentions that he'll be attending another boarding school (despite the fact that he had been expelled from a number of schools previously.) It's not hard to imagine that he'll just be heading for another failure unless he is able to change his attitude.
I agree that it is a genius book. But is it a good book to read?
Yes, it's all true. There was a guy at my uni who liked this book very much and clearly identified with Holden -- he was really whacky. Like, once we had to hand in our end of term paper (an analysis of a literary text). He didn't do it and offered to read something he has written instead. It's possible that he's an unacknowledged genius but that kind of attitude is just not one that's gonna help in life... At least, hating everyone because they're phony is not an outlook I really share. I can definitely relate to it in part -- that's why I liked the book -- but not to the extent he went.
I read "The Catcher" when I was about 17, in English. First of all, I enjoyed the language a lot. :) I thought something along the lines: "That guy's really strange." I didn't identify with him but I felt a lot of sympathy for him nonetheless. He reminded me of my elder brother a bit. This book wasn't in any way harmful for me, because I was quite mature when reading it. I'd read "Quiet Flows the Don" just before it and after reading about so much suffering and struggling, it seemed that Holden was kinda making mountains out of molehills, or something.
At any rate, I'm glad that book exists.
Lolita...anyone read this. I'm abandoning it after 50 pages. His writing style is very annoying and unusual, long sentences, page long paragraphs but with very little content, just a lot of words. Half the time I have no idea what he's talking about plus he goes into long digressions that add nothing to the flow of the story.
Lolita by Vladimir Nabokov. Yes, I read it when I was a about 15 or so.. I read it purely because I found out that it was explicitly banned from my schools' library.
Parts of it were ok, but obviously I had no understanding or sympathy for the male perspective in the book at all, and was much more interested in Lolita's perspective. But really, the book is about the male view, so it was probably lost on me...
Frankly Lolita was incredibly annoying and not very well portrayed. The mother was annoying too. It was hard to understand what all the fuss was about, I found the plot boring and the language irritating (I read the Swedish translation). I made it to the end but I have forgotten it...
Judging by todays' standards when peadophiles are the new witches... (burn 'em!) the book is terribly politically incorrect. Nabokov had moved to the US when he wrote the book, if I remember correctly, and the book was originally written in English, not in Russian.
I'm surprised to hear that because Nabokov is famous with his brilliant language in his prose (I don't like his poetry though). Probably he was great in prose only when he wrote in Russian. However, I read 'Lolita' (in Russian, of course), and I found the language really brilliant. Actually, it's the main virtue of the novel. I don't mean I didn't find the plot interesting; but the language is what is the best about the novel. I can say the same about his other things, by the way.Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
That's really funny, because I read it when I was about 15 too, BUT because it was in our school reading list. :lol:Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
I even had to retell in front of the class the story of Humbert and Lolita's first sexual intercourse (you know, to prove that I read the book). Tell me now, that Soviet schools were boring! :ROFL:
But I totally agree with Olya - Nabokov's "Lolita" (in Russian) is absolutely brilliant! He's creative with words, but he manages to avoid turning his narrative into something pretentious or unnatural. When he needs an epithet he never uses the first (or even second or third) word that comes to mind (no clichés). He choses something absolutely unexpected and seemingly unsuitable, but it works wonderfully. You literally can see a picture in your mind, it's so descriptive and emotional. His novels must have been very hard to translate.. I wonder if they are any good in English (he wrote both English and Russian version)?
Interesting that you are sepaking about Nabokov and Lolita... I came across this site while helping my daughter with her paper about Sikorsky..
http://englishrussia.com/?p=3141
6 Russian People Who Changed the USA
Quote:
Vladimir Nabokov (22 April, 1899 – 2 July, 1977) was the great Russian novelist. He emigrated from Russia to England (1919), then to Germany (1922), and then to the USA (1940), where he settled down in Manhattan. He never wrote in Russian after he came to the USA, though translated his works in English into Russian.
Nabokov’s Lolita (1955) is considered to be one of the most prominent novels in literature. How much influence this word caused on the human minds we all can only guess now. He also was interested in entomology and chess problems.
Haha, my school probably banned the book in the 1960s or so, and simply forgot to "un-ban" it later. There were lots of other books available with explicit scenes, perhaps that one was just the first to break a taboo. Nabokov was not covered at all in Litterature in school.Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
And yeah, it's becoming clear to me that things were not as laced up in the USSR as the rest of us thought! Hilarious that you actually made a presentation about that scene! Did you wear that old-fashioned style of school uniform that with an apron, that looks like it is from ca 1890, lol..? Funny contrast with the steamy scene from "Lolita" :D
I am embarrassed to admit that unlike both of you (Olya and Gromozeka) I completely missed the greatness of the book. Perhaps I was truly too young, or the wrong gender to really "get" it. But the language made no particular impression, the pace was slow and the plot didn't interest me..
There's nothing wrong with not liking a book, even a classic one. Especially when the subject is rather controversal. :roll: I believe the language could not make an impression, because the words you read were not Nabokov's words, it was a translator's attempt to find a substitute. The more refined the prose, the harder it's to translate. It takes away all the magic. Also it depends on whether you can relate to the main characters (I could relate to Humbert, despite his.. er... shortcomings).Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
Oh, I don't want to mislead you. It WAS absolutely impossible to imagin this book in an "oldschool" Soviet school (say, in the 60s). But in late 80's-early 90's things became very lax, and we studied a lot of books which were banned or not approved at some point of history (Bulgakov, Orwell, Solzenitsin, Nabokov, etc.)Quote:
Haha, my school probably banned the book in the 1960s or so, and simply forgot to "un-ban" it later. There were lots of other books available with explicit scenes, perhaps that one was just the first to break a taboo. Nabokov was not covered at all in Litterature in school.
And yeah, it's becoming clear to me that things were not as laced up in the USSR as the rest of us thought!
It'a pity, but no. :) As far as I remember we did not wear school uniforms in high school.Quote:
Hilarious that you actually made a presentation about that scene! Did you wear that old-fashioned style of school uniform that with an apron, that looks like it is from ca 1890, lol..?
I saw this book (fiction) in the bookstore today and it caught my attention... Olya... one of the main characters is Olga and she is a person who masters multiple foreign languages!
There are also an interesting couple of lines in it that I want to know if anyone has read/heard before:
"Colour is life. It's how we bend light into laughs. And also shades of weeping."
The Russian Dreambook of Color and Flight
http://lh5.ggpht.com/_euX8iPKWqeM/S5...jpg?imgmax=800
Quote:
Originally Posted by About the book
Babi Yar by Anatoli Kuznetsov. Бабий Яр. Анатолий Кузнецов. Updated version.
This book tells the experiences of an eleven or twelve year old boy in Kiev starting in September 1941. Kuznetsov reports the conditions of life in Kiev, and in his home through the end of occupation, with the return of Soviet forces. The author talks about his family, consisting of mother, father, maternal grandparents, and his cat Titus. Family history is included about the lives of parents and grandparents, some details going back to Tsarist times. The author gives childhood and family experiences during the famine and purge times in the 1930s. And so we learn that the father was a Russian from Харьков, a real Bolshevik, in Frunzes forces, in Крым. His mother was a school teacher from Київ.
The book is more well known for reporting eye witness accounts of survivors from Babi Yar. But for me, the personal stories of Anatoli and his family are equally important and very interesting. Kuznetsov’s style is sparing, and clear. The story is more important than literary niceties.
Kuznetsov also describes several points about conditions in Soviet times. For example ‘socialist realism’. A writer must tell what should have been, or what was desired, not what really is, or really happened. This kind of fantasy reality is actually familiar here in the west also, but there is no grand name for it, except perhaps ‘editorial control’. Stories are continually being ‘sanitized’. Kuznetsov says that his updated version is what he really intends to say.
Many parts of this book would be suitable for young adults and teenagers. Some parts should not be given to some one with heart trouble to read.
This book reminds me of so many stories that an old gentleman from Port Arthur Canada used to tell me. He was almost same age as Kuznetsov. Stories from the Depression in Canada, stories about his relatives from WW1 and before. Stories about his ancestors from England, his grandmother. Her brothers had been in a war in 1850s … Crimea.
I've just read the short story "Explorers we" by Philip K. Dick. The story is only about a half dozen pages and tells us about the return of spacemen from a space trip. Finding themselves back on the Earth they met quite a strange acceptance. At the end of the story we see that these spacemen are a sort of clones of the real ones mysteriously made up by the something extraterrestrial. The idea of extraterrestrial clones looks like that in "Solaris" by Stanislaw Lem which was discussed in the big film's thread. The difference is that in the Philip Dick's story we see the world from the clones' point of view. It is funny that both "Explores we" and "Solaris" were written by different authors at the same time.
I am reading the "Mars" trilogy, by Kim Stanley Robinson.
Actually I am not reading it really, I've got all three books, unabridged on my iPod.
It describes the founding of a first colony on Mars, and subsequent event, in a way that is apparently pretty scientifically correct (the author did TONS of research to support the book with proper science).
So it is a mix of science / fiction... politics and philosophy.
The mission consists of a group of Americans and Russians (largely) plus a few Europeans and a Japanese. The personalities of the main characters make the story more interesting.
I definitely recommend this series.
http://bluesuncorp.co.uk/files/artic...s/red-mars.jpg
This poem comes from another thread and was suggested by studyr for my book:
The Bronze Horseman: A Petersburg Tale (Медный всадник: Петербургская повесть) by: Aleksandr Pushkin
The Bronze Horseman (poem) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopediaQuote:
Widely considered to be Pushkin's most successful narrative poem
You can listen to the poem in Russian at: Bronze Horseman
You can read the poem in Russian here: http://www.rvb.ru/pushkin/01text/02poems/01poems/0795.htm?
start=0&length=all
You can read the poem in English here: The Bronze Horseman
Медный всадник!
What a marvelous combination of epic and comedy! It was my first experience of reading Pushkin's verse in Russian. Gave me some good laughs and an everlasting passion for Russian poetry. A guy told me once that there is not a single Russian who doesn't know at least a few lines of that poem by heart.
But still, I think Peter the Great was a bit too easily offended. "Ужо тебе" isn't really such a great insult for which to petrify a poor young man. I wonder what grievous curses a contemporary Evgeny would yell at the statue...
Yeah I have heard about this book and I'd like to read it too. You make it sound very interesting/Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpicker
Keep meaning to start proplerly using my super fancy e-reader but I never get around to it... maybe I'll find that online and load it onto the ereader.
You can also listen to the poem here: RussianDVD.com - Audio Stream - Читает Дмитрий Николаевич ЖуравлёвQuote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
The 2010 Nobel Prize in Literature goes to...Mario Vargas Llosa!:yahoo:
Whoda thunk it?!
I had enjoyed his "The Feast of the Goat" and especially "Conversation in the Cathedral", and I've been reading "Death in the Andes" lately, and now he's (finally) received his well-deserved prize.
The best part of it is that the Academy has at last come to give the Prize to someone I know! [Or perhaps I should've twisted that around?]
Wow! He's a great writer. For once they gave this prise to someone who deserved it. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by Misha Tal
I read a few books by him a long time ago, and I remember that I was very impressed by "The Green House".
yeah, Nobels are a joke; I can't believe anyone takes them seriously.Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Just found about an on-line service which can help to select what to read next "What Should I Read Next? Book recommendations from readers like you". If you enter the book title which you like it gives you back the suggestions for further reading.
What an interesting concept! It works off of people signing up and creating lists of books that they have read and like. So, you enter in a book you've read and it matches to the people who have that book on their lists and then returns the other book titles on their list.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeCup
BTW, my daughters got their required summer reading books. Older one has to read The Picture of Dorian Gray and the younger one has to read Peach Blossom Sping
I am planning to read "Flowers for Algernon" by Daniel Keyes though it would be a hard journey for a non-native since a great part of the story is written with mistakes as a little boy would write it. There are two versions: a short story (Hugo Award for Best Short Story) and a novel (Nebula Award for Best Novel). Anybody have an idea which one is better to start with the short story or the novel?
The complete short story is available online, and here are the first two paragraphs to give you an idea of the language:Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeCup
progris riport 1-martch 5, 1965
Dr. Strauss says I shud rite down what I think and evrey thing that happins to me from now on, I dont know why but he says its importint so they will see if they will use me. I hope they use me.
Miss Kinnian says maybe they can make me smart. I want to be smart. My name is Charlie Gordon. I am 37 years old. I have nuthing more to rite now so I will close for today.
progris riport 2-martch 6
I had a test today. I think I faled it. And I think maybe now they wont use me. What happind is a nice young man was in the room and he had some white cards and ink spillled all over them. He sed Charlie what do vo see on this card. I was very skared even tho I had my rabits foot in my pockit because when I was a kid I always faled tests in school and I spillled ink to.
I told him I saw a inkblot. He said yes and it made me feel good.
I thot that was all but when I got up to go he said Charlie we are not thrn yet.
As you can see, the mistakes are mostly phonetic (e.g., "shud rite" instead of "should write"), but occasionally Charlie makes mistakes based on the shapes of letters (writing vo instead of "yo" for "you", and thrn instead of "thru" for "through").
I don't know. I have only read the short story. And I don't know exactly why I couldn't bring myself to read the novel. It could be a fear of being disappointed, or in other words disbelief in that this story could be just as powerful in form of a novel. The short story is so intense... Another reason could be that I may not want to relive through this once more.Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeCup
It will not for you. I'm sure.Quote:
though it would be a hard journey for a non-native
Nabokov's own description of Lolita was "My Valentine's card to the English language" -- and like a number of his other novels, it was written first in English and then personally translated by Nabokov himself into Russian.Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
CoffeeCup,Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffeeCup
I agree with E-Learner that you should be able to handle this book. Your English is VERY good! And if you run into troubles... I have an idea. If you recall, Olya had a thread dedicated to a movie she was watching where she posted question just about that movie. ... you could always start a thread just about this book and post questions and we can help you out.
I have never read this book or the short story. I do recall hearing about the musical as it won awards and was popular when I was in school. I'm certain I can get a copy of the full version either online or at our library if you plan on reading the full version (Throbert has already found the short version online for us) and would be willing to try and help you out with any questions.
So... let's get this summer reading underway.. between Dorian Grey and Flowers... we have a nice book selection this summer!