Quote Originally Posted by TATY
There are Arabs who live in Israel proper (i.e. not in the West Bank or Gaza), by the way.
Close to 20% of the Israeli population are Arabs and seem to be reasonably well integrated into Israeli society, particularly in Haifa. (In fact several of those killed by Hezbollah rockets have actually been Arabs). They have full citizenship and have political representatives in the Israeli parliament. But the situation for those Arabs who live outside Israel proper is very different. They are not Israeli citizens and do not have any political voice inside Israel itself despite being controlled by that state. Israel did not want to make them citizens because it would greatly diminish the Jewish majority and over time could even have resulted in an Arab majority within Israel.

Quote Originally Posted by TATY
Some hippy girl at university who is a member of the "Friends of Palestine Society" assured me that ALL Arabs in Israel lived in the West Bank or Gaza and under no circumstances were permitted to enter the main part of Israel. That's funny, because as well as the many thousands of Arabs living in Israel proper, I read an article on the BBC news site which had a Palestinian man saying Israeli road blocks were making it take him hours and hours to get to Tel-Aviv where he often did business. I.e., people are allowed to travel from the Palestinian territories out into Israel. Also, how does she think these suicide bombers manage to target places like Tel-Aviv?
The "hippy girl" is obviously misinformed and should really get her facts straight before assuring anyone of anything.

Quote Originally Posted by TATY
Of course there are strict regulations governing where Arabs can live and such and also governing the movements of residents from the Palestinian territories into Israel.

And I hear and read lots of talk about the Arabs living in Gaza and West Bank being those who were kicked off their land by the Jews when Israel was formed. Yes probably most of them are. But there was also a large influx of Arabs from neighboring countries under the British mandate. The modern term Palestinian does not refer to a specific ethnicity. It is just an Arab who lives in Palestine. So, an Egyptian family who moved to Palestine in say 1940, and then after the formation of Israel moved into the Gaza strip, would be called Palestinian, and there descendants would be too.

But also, I am quite uncomfortable with certain people's blatant Islamophobia. I must say I sort of agree with the points raised, but it isn't done in the most sensitive way. If you are born into a religion it is very difficult to see any fault in it. I believe all religion is a load of cr@p, but I wouldn't go up to a Christian and shout "JESUS WAS JUST A CARPENTER WHO TALKED TO MUCH AND WASN'T EVEN THE SON OF GOD AND YOU DON'T HAVE YOUR OWN MIND AND DO WHATEVER SOME INACCURATE ANCIENT BOOK TELLS YOU".
Yeah, you don't choose the religion you're born into and even if you disagree with a religion, there's no need to be so deeply offensive. If someone attacks your beliefs in such an outrageously offensive manner as has been displayed in this thread, you're more likely to believe it more rather than change your mind. This type of thing only polarizes opinion further and creates bad feeling.

Quote Originally Posted by TATY
ALSO!

I saw an interesting piece on the BBC news yesterday (the BBC was criticised a couple of years ago, by the way, for being too pro-Israel),
I must say, I never thought of the BBC as being pro-Israel.

Quote Originally Posted by TATY
about how it is not the Jewish lobby in America that drives the country's support for Israel, it is in fact crazy evangelical Christians who believe in something called "End time theology". Basically in the Bible it says for Jesus to return to Earth the Jews must be gathered in Israel, and also that when he returns he will judge the gentiles (non-Jews) treatment of the Jews. Thus, these evangelical Christians (who there are a lot of, and in very high places) are very pro-Israel. Couple with that they are likely to be very pro-American and therefore hate Muslims because of 9/11.
Yes, this is what I was referring to in my previous post. This theology is known as Dispensationalism and is very popular among Evangelical Christians. The idea is that Christ will come again and the Jews will accept him and convert to Christianity at that time. The 1967 war had a huge impact on the popularity of these ideas. The fact that Israel could prevail over so many Arab armies and achieve such a crushing victory was considered to be the result of God's intervention and proof that the Dispensationalist interpretation of the Bible was true and a clear sign that Christ would come again. In fact some Evangelicals fully expected it to happen in 1967. Since that time the Evangelicals have strongly supported Israel and have been deeply hostile to the Palestinian cause. I even remember reading somewhere that some Evangelical groups make collections to fund and support Israeli settlements in the West Bank. In earlier years though, Evangelicals had been some of the strongest anti-Semitic voices in the US. How times change!