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Thread: If only learning a language was this easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  1. #1
    Завсегдатай rockzmom's Avatar
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    If only learning a language was this easy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    I would know soooooooooooooooooo many languages with all the road trips I've taken in my life!

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    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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  2. #2
    Hanna
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    Haha, that was a funny commercial.
    Anyone who needs courses like that should head over to Uz-Translations : Main page where they can be downloaded.
    Is it really called "el caro" or is that some kind of slang or americanized Spanish?

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    Завсегдатай chaika's Avatar
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    Isn't that the standard world-level word for that item?!! In Chicago Polish you will hear
    Parkowałem karą na konierze. I parked the car on the corner.
    =:^)

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    Завсегдатай rockzmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Is it really called "el caro" or is that some kind of slang or americanized Spanish?
    It is correct, he just isn't rrrrrrrrrrrrolling his rrrrrrrrr enough.
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    R in caro shouldn't be rolled because it is a flap.

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    Завсегдатай rockzmom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    R in caro shouldn't be rolled because it is a flap.
    Well... I've got 4 native Spanish speakers in my house (two born in US and two born in Central America) and they all roll the "r" when they say "caro." Don't know what to tell you.
    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chaika View Post
    Isn't that the standard world-level word for that item?!! In Chicago Polish you will hear
    Parkowałem karą na konierze. I parked the car on the corner.
    =:^)
    Yeah, and in NY Russian in Brighton beach they ask in a food store: "Вам писиком, или послайсать?" ("Do you want it in one piece or sliced?")

    Actually I remember a funny "translation" from late Soviet times where "припарковать кар" was interpreted as "выйти из трамвая". So this word was supposed to be known by at least some part of the population. But it is not widely used in any kind of slang even now in native Russian territiories.
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Well... I've got 4 native Spanish speakers in my house (two born in US and two born in Central America) and they all roll the "r" when they say "caro." Don't know what to tell you.
    I mean that there is only one touch of the palatum.

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    The guy is not saying caro - he is saying carro, and he is clearly rolling the r. caro means expensive in both Spain and Latin America, while carro means car in Latin America and cart in Spain (the common word for car in Spain being coche). Both sounds, r and rr, have the same place of articulation, that is the alveolar ridge - thus they are both alveolar consonants. The difference is the manner of articulation, where r is a tap (or synonymously, flap) and rr is a trill. So, when pronouncing the alveolar tap, the tongue is only briefly in contact with the alveolar ridge, while it is vibrating against it when pronouncing the alveolar trill.

    I thought I would transcribe the dialogue, as the translation given in the video isn't quite literal.

    "Trece horas en el carro sin parar ... y no traes música."
    Thirteen hours in the car without stopping (lit. to stop) ... and you don't bring music.

    "Mira, entre y compra unas papitas."
    Look, enter and buy some chips.


    EDIT: Somehow I ended up in this thread and didn't notice the date. Sorry for bumping it.

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    Is Russian r a flap or a trill?

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    I'm not a native speaker of Russian myself, so I looked it up in Ladefoged & Maddieson (1996): "The Sounds of the World's Languages," where it says that the Russian r is an alveolar trill. However, it is a bit different from the Spanish one. According the analysis of Russian by Ladefoged & Maddieson, the Russian alveolar trill is apical, which means it is pronounced with the tip of the tongue, and it only consists of two flaps - and sometimes only one, in which case it would be considered an alveolar flap. The Spanish alveolar trill on the other hand is laminal, which means it is pronounced with the tongue blade, and it normally consists of two or three flaps, and never one (to distinguish it from the Spanish alveolar flap, and create minimal pairs such as pero vs. perro and caro vs. carro).
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    I'm not a native speaker of Russian myself, so I looked it up in Ladefoged & Maddieson (1996): "The Sounds of the World's Languages," where it says that the Russian r is an alveolar trill. However, it is a bit different from the Spanish one. According the analysis of Russian by Ladefoged & Maddieson, the Russian alveolar trill is apical, which means it is pronounced with the tip of the tongue, and it only consists of two flaps - and sometimes only one, in which case it would be considered an alveolar flap. The Spanish alveolar trill on the other hand is laminal, which means it is pronounced with the tongue blade, and it normally consists of two or three flaps, and never one (to distinguish it from the Spanish alveolar flap, and create minimal pairs such as pero vs. perro and caro vs. carro).
    Thank you. I can't imagine a laminal trill. Have you ever heard Russian? What was your impression about this issue?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    Thank you. I can't imagine a laminal trill. Have you ever heard Russian? What was your impression about this issue?
    As I pointed out before, I'm not a native speaker of Russian and therefore I chose to look it up, as I don't have any authority to comment on such issue without consulting any academic research. But yes, I have heard Russian before, plenty of times. Personally, I think the alveolar trill in Russian is quite distinct, although it is easier for me recognize a Spanish alveolar trill, but that's because I speak Spanish at a near-fluent level, while my experience and exposure to Russian is minimal, to say the least. I'm able to pronounce both the lamino-alveolar trill and the apico-alveolar trill - and I can say that the difference is subtle. A Russian learning Spanish would be able to use the Russian alveolar trill and easily be understood - but of course, throwing in an extra flap (remember Spanish had approximately 2-3 flaps, while Russian had 1-2 flaps) would probably help getting rid of an accent.

    You say it's hard for you to imagine a laminal trill. You could listen to the video in the top of this thread where the Spanish lamino-alveolar trill is pronounced. Or you could also try to listen to this song (and the lyrics you find here) by the artist Salvatore Adamo, in which he is very articulate so that it is very easy to both hear the flaps and the trills. Notice for instance the trill at 00:46. The song is quite nice itself too, so enjoy.

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