Thread: If I was to take a trip to Russia

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

There are other meanings for these words, but most are based on context and... very importantly, location.

So.
"These is a west gates of port cities Bal Harbor, new citi wolls would highest and mere stout. A busy main street run from here to the distant square" you must not call "bad English"? If you do, I'll point to your own opinion about "meanings and other stuff can vary from Los Angeles to Brisbane"?

You also are missing two main forms of any language... Formal (usually written, more technical)... and Colloquial (usually spoken, more common... more 'everyday' language)

On a more direct point... I've heard countless debates, sometimes over several bottles... as to who speaks "true Russian"... Muscovites, Petersburg, Tomsk, Odessa, Kiev, those living along the Road of Bones, Kamchatka, Vladivostok...

Again... language will vary with dialects, context, vocabulary, location... and time. Consider Greek... and the now dead language of Latin.

I can't believe I'm giving such a fundamental linguistics lesson. Time for a beer and a siesta.

Originally Posted by Dobry

(I can't believe I'm giving an English lesson on 'fluffy' and 'fuzzy')
.................................................. ........................................
My opinion after teaching many Spaniards and Russians.

Nice lecture, Dobry!
But I've heard people using "fluffy" meaning "(overly)-romantic". Something like "розовые сопли" in Russian. Can I use it that way?

Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

Originally Posted by Dobry

(I can't believe I'm giving an English lesson on 'fluffy' and 'fuzzy')
.................................................. ........................................
My opinion after teaching many Spaniards and Russians.

Nice lecture, Dobry!
But I've heard people using "fluffy" meaning "(overly)-romantic". Something like "розовые сопли" in Russian. Can I use it that way?

Yes

I want to say “last word”, like Peter Blood, before would been hanged by the mad crowd of the fie-lol-оgists.

I had free time to think in the biztrip and some a time to write this text. And still I can’t get, how you all could read Joyce and couldn’t understand me with “fuzzy”?
Joyce all-time using fuzzy meanings to describe such thing like «поток сознания»(cognitive sequences) of his heroes. Just read and see how Stephen thoughts, he never using words in it’s common meanings, he trying get colour, taste, sound, smell from words and using then achieved.
I’m have understanding why our (Russian) children reads Shakespeare, but Joyce is forbidden for them. His books needs the uncommon vocabulary in the head. Too many fuzzy words for child, so many that even would destroy native linguistic links in young brain. But Shakespeare written clear 2B|!2B=? it’s for ordinaries who comes to see his plays to the theater. In that times theater was not for elite as now it is, but for ppl from lower classes with limited vocabulary. My English vocabulary is limited too, as peasant had, but I’m using words in other manner – playing with words like a child, biting and tasting it. Because, haven’t feeling of their logical structure.
Which taste have white? Sweet like а sugar!
Which weight have golden? Heavy as а sin!
White equals sweet. Golden equals heavy. Looks fuzzy?
Who speaks fuzzy(says fuzzy words)? Children(baby-talks), nice smart animals using proto-words(whales, dolphins, ravens, dogs etc), humans, when they speaks in foreign language or have been very deep in context on something, autistic ppl, and more and more and more….
All words have valuable probable meanings, because of empiric learning nature. (как сказал )
Ok, you saying that native speakers can’t understand me, and I’m often was wrong in context meanings.
PE take farmer in Ohayo, professor in Oxford, and Irish poet, all is native English speaking persons, and ask them “Say to us, what means for you “The red roses grow.”?
Farmer says, It’s means Roses, ones getting bigger.
Professor says – the Power of Lancaster’s party getting bigger.
Poet says – the Love getting bigger.
If someone ask me – the Kylie’s nice song.
May you, now find “a rose” in the English\Russian dictionary and get this meanings?
Who says “mew”? I.е. “табурет”. Try to find in Google Russian word meaning “оттабуретить?”, «а табурет?», is answer to menace «отканделябрить?», «а канделябр?». Such fuzzy word meaning is bear and die till one preference game and may never be written, until I doing it in this forum. There are millions cases when “common” words can be used fuzzy when two ppl are deep in context, they even haven’t understanding that speaks fuzzy – they just exchanging thoughts, using temporal sequence of keywords that lead them to the ideas in the brain each other.

We had different experience when learning and using words, but all seems to be right
That’s means, if even natives living inside a one block meets and try to speak first-time to each other, they will speak “fuzzy English” because they are deep in context of their lifestyles. So, any two unfamiliar men always have to check their vocabularies, Dobry says right things. You just can’t force me or all ppl think, say, write “correct” English\Russian just publishing books with rules and study rules in schools. It’s impossible, mother-nature loves empiric learning and don’t let you do it. Somewhere I’ll drop and bump, that’s will teach me. Impossible to freeze the language when it’s lives. It’s such nature law as gravity. Any systems and linguistic ones trying to reach minimal energy status and stay in that stable form until new external force(factor) don’t hits.
Мaybe I’ll can say “probabable” or “вирогадно”(укр.) and get something from that, kinda sarcastic. It’s not wrong, like «fie-lol-ogists» thinks - it’s fuzzy! I do not like udaff.com “padonaks” or kind of modernism in the “prived-medved” pictures. There are just kids, kids always trying to be “different” and using all possible means, often synthetic ones, to do it. Hippies, uppies, panks, mitkis had their stable subculture and slang that makes them closed group in society. This kind of ppl thoughts that their nude @ss will make hedgehog feel fear. Difference between fuzzy words and slang is great, all words may be “fuzzy” for very short-periods, till bullet fly, but subculture slang words is, and stay, very stable in their meaning, i.e. forming new proto-languages, when this ppl getting older, they just adding the slang to the mother-language. But fuzzy words makes nothing new, they just mirror of complex cognitive sequences in our brain, temporal projection of our internal information circuits to the puzzle of the live language structure.

Dobry, I just hope that you know what I mean with my words, and that you do not have feeling of aggression or puffiness in the my dumb but frank speaking manner. Remember, I’m often using “you” as “abstract opposite side” in speech, not your personality, which I’m not familiar but have and show great consideration. If unfamiliar Russians would be more “sweet” to you than I’m, don’t buy it or ask a price.

Sorry, Dobry, I’m and millions other ppl do not “leaning languages” English or Russian ever since leaving school, I trying to say it from my first posts, we are just reads books. English, Russian, technical, fiction, poetic books it doesn't matter. After work we(ordinary ppl) watching (cable, satellite) TV with English channels and who would thought about, we understanding all that says CNN, BBC, Discovery. So I don’t have my English “prepod” now and don’t want her back. It was many years ago in the institute, she was so rude, even for Russian “prepod”, her English was so bad that she said me once that no such word as “kneels” when we learns bodyparts, and I’m was depressed. But I still remember hers beloved refrain “do-did-done-go-going-gone.”
So now I have some kind a coordinate type of bilinguism I my head, and don’t want to be split a parts and to be compound bilingual. Just don’t need it, I’m Russian, and do not want to be a more holy then Papa in Rome, i.e. speaks English like Joyce writes. But most of ppl on this site want to be compound speakers, on my thoughts, you misplacing “fluent” as “identical to native” speaking. It’s seems funny trying to form their new English\Russian personality that will speaks with natives. It’s weird. Most funny thing to see when Russian trying pretends to be English natives and vise versa. We have other lingvoblocks in the brains, and can’t change it after child ages, but we can form new ones, i.e. to build a new “English personality” of us, isn’t it hear like a psycho illness? Don’t try to be Russian, feel free to read all writers that you want, watch movies and other stuff, but stay yourself! It’s is too old to go by the path that follows “adopted” in other country and to change childish(not formed yet) personality. Feel free to speak like Englishman\American on Russian language. That’s I trying to say. Be proud to be American not by citizenship but by the soul too. It’s Russian way to do things. Our patriotism is kinda wild Slavs barbarian, when Romans comes and want to civilize us - we wash their faces. Only our bloody rulers like Vladimir, Peter and other forcing us, with rivers of blood, when pagans was christened, or Peter’s the Great headcuttings, and tones of bones of slaves under SPB makes us to be like you - “Europeans” and be more controlled. We are lazy and don’t want yours’ sophisticated civilization, we have ours’ one, and love and hate it. “А она нам нравится, хоть и не красавица”(с) DDT. So, be proud to stay yourself, and Russians will appreciate such behaves. But all honest ways are heavy to go, who knows how you can read Russian or other literatures and stay pure American, I don’t know the answer….no one knows.
So, if some of your behaviors will be not appreciated by Russians - c'est la vie. And maybe this is the core things that makes nationality or personality, why you or I’m must lose for someone unfamiliar my behavior and be “sweet”? Only silly person wants to be “warm-and-fuzzy” for all ppl, when you should be good to the familiars, and show respect to the other. We can’t control other ppl, but can control our minds and set it to the “good and bad” ones as we wish. That’s all I had to say. See in the deep. Bye, Dobry.

Most fuzziest word is “God”, no one knows it’s real meaning.

PS to “someone” who says that “technical intelligentsia” is oxymoron, I will answer – I’m glad that not a part of such sh!t as any intelligentsia is, but belong to technical intelligence by the army reserve list.

We builds the rockets, it’s flies into Space,
But we are just another with fuzzy face.
We using English rude and fuzzy,
Say thanks a lot to BВC and Muzzy.

<my bottle is already empty>
…hic…
Farewell.

OMG, svar45, were you late for your train?!
But there is absolutely no way I'd be able to read so much of your stuff.
It would severely damage my brain, and I've kinda grown attached to it.

lexxx maybe you such kind of person that cant follow clocks and calendar? almost third day passed, and I was travel to the neighbor city and back.

eh! you gad and kaifalom you broked my so coldhearted farewell…
But now, no words from me, total ignorance.

Originally Posted by svar45

total ignorance.

There you go.
I do follow.
Our own language is fun, isn't it?

Originally Posted by svar45

lexxx maybe you such kind of person that cant follow clocks and calendar? almost third day passed, and I was travel to the neighbor city and back.

lexxx's not the only one!
I feel like my brain is leaking through my ears while trying to read your HUGE previous post. Well, I failed and feel small and unintelligent... but, OMG, has anybody read ALL of it ?

(svar45, наши высушенные компьютером мозги не в состоянии обрабатывать за раз такие массивы информации. Хотя там наверняка было много интересного... )[/b]

Originally Posted by svar45

I want to say “last word”, like Peter Blood, before would been hanged by the mad crowd of the fie-lol-оgists.

I had free time to think in the biztrip and some a time to write this text. And still I can’t get, how you all could read Joyce and couldn’t understand me with “fuzzy”?
Joyce all-time using fuzzy meanings to describe such thing like «поток сознания»(cognitive sequences) of his heroes. Just read and see how Stephen thoughts, he never using words in it’s common meanings, he trying get colour, taste, sound, smell from words and using then achieved.
I’m have understanding why our (Russian) children reads Shakespeare, but Joyce is forbidden for them. His books needs the uncommon vocabulary in the head. Too many fuzzy words for child, so many that even would destroy native linguistic links in young brain...
Farewell.

Svar,
I understand very well your meanings. And how you use "fuzzy" to describe your thoughts.

Several people have made the point, and I will add to it...

For example, James Joyce... we English-readers would not say his writing is "fuzzy"... I would say that his writings are sometimes "difficult to understand." Do you see? Easy, simple words... if you wrote "difficult to understand"... or "not clear", then this is will be understandable to all English-speakers. Using "fuzzy" is not clear English because of several different meanings.

So, also, it is the same with Shakespeare... but Shakespeare is a much older "style" of English, and NO English-speakers use this style (except for theater). Most English-speakers cannot understand Shakespeare, without specific and serious study and education. Americans are traditionally taught some of Shakespeare, (Hamlet, Macbeth, the Sonnets, Henry the 5th)... but sadly most Americans do not read or study Shakespeare after they finish school requirements. So... Svar... I understand very much what you wrote of studying Tolstoy and Dostoevsky in school.

For me... I continue to read, but I am many years out of school. But I like to read, and it pleases me, and I continue to learn. Tak.

Also... James Joyce was a highly-educated linguist, an expert in the history of languages, and he often would use other dialects, old Celtic dialects that most English-speakers cannot understand... "Finnegan's Wake" is a very good example.

But, you need to know this about Joyce... he developed a style of English-writing that we call "stream of consciousness". This is NOT normal, everyday English. No English-speaker speaks in this style. It is a style that represents the constant "river of thoughts" that flow in your mind. It is not spoken English. And yes, of course, it is very "fuzzy"

The best American author in our history, in my opinion, is probably William Faulkner. He also wrote in "stream of consciousness"... the "river of your thoughts". His books are very difficult to read, but his books are very beautiful literature, but often dark. I think, with time, he will be considered America's version of Dostoevsky.

Thomas Pynchon is another American author that I very much recommend. He has his own "style"... very brilliant writer, but also "fuzzy", and his writings can be difficult to understand. I think his "style" is similar to Pelevin... very important for "seeing into" the American soul and culture.

And I must mention Kurt Vonnegut... he is our modern "Mark Twain." Vonnegut's books are easy to read, but he is very satirical, and some of his words and images will only make sense to Americans and our lives, our experiences in America. Similar to compare to what Laxxy wrote to me about some Russian authors, and for an American trying to understand Russian satire, jokes and images.

Our posts, I think, are good, and I've learned much from Svar, Laxxy, BabaYaga, and others. I have more understanding now.

Большое спасибо

using foreign words for how they sound or for what one *thinks* they mean is rather dangerous. Sometimes it simply results in fuzzy people and cuty bears (tm). Sometimes it results in this:
[total ignorance?]

Originally Posted by laxxy

using foreign words for how they sound or for what one *thinks* they mean is rather dangerous. Sometimes it simply results in fuzzy people and cuty bears (tm). Sometimes it results in this:
[total ignorance?]

Again, very wise words, laxxy.

As a language teacher I see these mistakes often... I have often made them myself, when I am studying another language... in English teaching we call many of these "false friends" (words that you 'think' mean one thing (they appear similar) but mean something different in the other language, and can create bad misunderstandings... and I've been in a few "serious" discussions over these mistakes.

I ve noticed going from formal "vi" to the unformal "ti" and I get confused with the pronouns because pimslur doesn't make them sound very clear.

correct my if Im wrong but I noticed that I replace certian pronouns like so.

Vas-tebya (u vas) to (u tebya)
Vam-tebe
they re others i just cant think its like 3:00am

and what "your" as in your friend
I know davoy znakomoy/znakomah/drug/ pa druga I think can be used for women.

any can anyone clarify these please. It would help a ton with speaking wioth friends.
Spaciba, Krist

Excuse, I badly know English therefore it was difficult to understand your question for me, but I shall answer as have understood it.

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

Vas-tebya (u vas) to (u tebya)
Vam-tebe

Ok

and what "your" as in your friend
I know davoy znakomoy/znakomah/drug/ pa druga I think can be used for women.

Vash drug/Tvoy drug (Ваш друг/твой друг)
Vashemu drugu/Tvoemu drugu (Вашему другу/Твоему другу)
She - znakomay (знакомая: Она моя знакомая)
He - znakomyj (знакомый: Он мой знакомый)
She/He - drug (друг: Она/Он мой друг)

plural

Vashi druz'ya/Tvoi druz'ya (Ваши друзья/Твои друзья)
Vashi znakomye/Tvoi znakomye (Ваши знакомые/Твои знакомые)
Vashim druz'yam/ Tvoim druz'yam (Вашим друзьям/ Твоим друзьям)
Vashim znakomym/Tvoim znakomym (Вашим знакомым/Твоим знакомым)

Originally Posted by Dobry

As a language teacher I see these mistakes often... I have often made them myself, when I am studying another language... in English teaching we call many of these "false friends" (words that you 'think' mean one thing (they appear similar) but mean something different in the other language, and can create bad misunderstandings... and I've been in a few "serious" discussions over these mistakes.

I think I perhaps hid the link too well
http://www.engrish.com/detail.php?image ... 2006-08-11

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

I ve noticed going from formal "vi" to the unformal "ti" and I get confused with the pronouns because pimslur doesn't make them sound very clear.

correct my if Im wrong but I noticed that I replace certian pronouns like so.

Vas-tebya (u vas) to (u tebya)
Vam-tebe
they re others i just cant think its like 3:00am

and what "your" as in your friend
I know davoy znakomoy/znakomah/drug/ pa druga I think can be used for women.

any can anyone clarify these please. It would help a ton with speaking wioth friends.
Spaciba, Krist

Yes,

Тебя [tebya] and тебе [tebe] are forms of Ты [ty]
Вас [vas] and вам [vam] are forms of Вы [vy]

See this is why Pimsleur is absolute trash. Don't use it, switch to something else now.

I think this davoy word is actually Твой which you would have known if Pimsleur actually had text like any language course should.

Твой - your, used for masucline things.
Твоя [tva-ya] - your, used for feminine things.

e.g. Твой друг [tvoy drug] - Your (male) friend
Твоя подруга [tva-ya pa-dru-ga] - Your (female) friend

The word depends on the gender of the thing possessed (in this case the gender of the friend), and not the gender of the possesser.

Твой and Твоя are used when talking to someone you'd call Ты (Ty).
For someone you'd call Вы [vy] or if you are talking to more than one person you use Ваш [vash] and Ваша [vasha].

If you were talking to your friend (who you'd address using Ty) you'd ыфн:

Eto tvoya ruchka? - Is this your pen?
Это твоя ручка?

If you were talking to your teacher (who you'd address using Vy) you'd say:
Eto vasha ruchka? - Is this your pen?
Это ваша ручка?

Im back again!!!
I went back a few and reviewed the pimsluer russian II I am on Russian dics 3 part 6--my question is am I even close to a year yet?? I know some things that arent mentioned in the cds yet, and I've come to be able to sell at my job well, using it

my friend that I write to help with my skills in Russian and I help her with English keeps saying this in almost all of her emails..."write and do not overlook." and I am very glad that you to me Пишишь(what does this word mean "Pishish'" I keepting that it means "write" kinda like pis'at)

one thing thats bugging me is after "he/she" you dont use "his/her" you use "ones" place like he wants to live at ones place/ oh hotchet zhit u sebe domoy, I think this is correct or am I thinking k sebe domoy

any help at all is highly appreciated
spasibo vsegda!

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

my friend that I write to help with my skills in Russian and I help her with English keeps saying this in almost all of her emails..."write and do not overlook." and I am very glad that you to me Пишишь(what does this word mean "Pishish'" I keepting that it means "write" kinda like pis'at)

First of all it's "пишешь". And you're right, it's verb "to write" (present tense in second person -- I'm not sure of the right grammar terms here).

one thing thats bugging me is after "he/she" you dont use "his/her" you use "ones" place like he wants to live at ones place/ oh hotchet zhit u sebe domoy, I think this is correct or am I thinking k sebe domoy

oh hotchet zhit u sebya doma

any help at all is highly appreciated
spasibo vsegda!

Всегда пожалуйста!

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

"write and do not overlook."

Maybe she is saying "don't FORGET to write". You need a better online translator.

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

one thing thats bugging me is after "he/she" you dont use "his/her" you use "ones" place like he wants to live at ones place/ oh hotchet zhit u sebe domoy, I think this is correct or am I thinking k sebe domoy

Often times an impersonal pronoun (свой/себя/сам) is used instead of его or её. It is difficult to explain but I hope these examples help.
and I hope they are correct too
Он потерал свой бумажник - he lost his own wallet
Он потерал его бумажник - he (John) lost his (Bob's) wallet

[quote=shadow1]

Originally Posted by Sir Krist

"write and do not overlook."

Maybe she is saying "don't FORGET to write". You need a better online translator.

Originally Posted by "Sir Krist":3tgpr0ik

one thing thats bugging me is after "he/she" you dont use "his/her" you use "ones" place like he wants to live at ones place/ oh hotchet zhit u sebe domoy, I think this is correct or am I thinking k sebe domoy

Often times an impersonal pronoun (свой/себя/сам) is used instead of его or её. It is difficult to explain but I hope these examples help.
and I hope they are correct too
Он потерал свой бумажник - he lost his own wallet
Он потерал его бумажник - he (John) lost his (Bob's) wallet[/quote:3tgpr0ik]
If I were to be you, I would have written "потерял"

Originally Posted by Chuvak

If I were to be you, I would have written "потерял"

And I would have written simply: "If I were you, blah blah blah." "To be" is really redundant, since you've already said "were" which is a form of "to be" to begin with. So you're saying если я бы был будет... or something similiarly bizarre.