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Thread: Films & TV: Russian & Non - Q&As/Reviews/Links all in here!

  1. #81
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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Quote Originally Posted by ski-ops
    Самый лучший фильм, который я видел на русском языке - "Возвращение", вышел в 2003-м году. Замечательные актеры, особенно [s:2w48onao]младший[/s:2w48onao] самый молодой актер, красивые [s:2w48onao]природы[/s:2w48onao] пейзажи (природа can't be in plural)_ /no comma/ и эмоциональный и тяжёлый сюжет.

    Об этом_ будет (было бы) интересно услышать мнение Оли, которая, [s:2w48onao]казалась[/s:2w48onao] кажется, особенно [s:2w48onao]критический о современных русских фильмах[/s:2w48onao] критически относится к современным русским фильмам.

    Кстати, я думаю, [s:2w48onao]можно ли сказать мне[/s:2w48onao] что могу сказать (здесь) о "Сталкере" - это один из моих любимых советских фильмов. Я прочитал, что туда добавили музыку недавно, [s:2w48onao]и музыка не была раньше, на первом версии[/s:2w48onao] а раньше ее не было, в первой версии - это правда?
    About music in "Stalker" - I don't know.

    As for "Возвращение" - it's not bad for me. But... I don't share common deligh about it. First of all, the film seemed... Italian or something to me. I mean, I did not recognize Russian environment in it. Say, a house. I never saw houses like that in Russia (of course, it doesn't mean there are not any at all, but it's just my impressions). I think all this looked rather like an Italian house and Italian family. Well, Italian or something. Somewhere in the south. While I was watching the movie, I was not able to understand where it happened - I mean not only a country, but a region or a city, too. I think those guys easily could turn out Europeans, not Russians - there would not be needed to change anything in the movie. So this part was abstract to me. So less the movie touched me.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    ski-ops & delog!

    Thanks for your lightening fast responses and no need to apologize!!!! I am the one here without the proper skill set.

    Though, I have installed the Cyrillic alphabet onto my desktop from
    http://www.languagehelpers.com/Russi...nAlphabet.html in hopes that within say, six or seven months, I might actually be able to learn them and pronounce the letters to a level that someone would understand me.

    Quote Originally Posted by ski-ops
    ..the best russian language film I've seen is The Return (Возвращения), which came out in 2003...I highly recommend it.
    I will add "The Return" to my list and see if I can find a copy online with subtitles.
    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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    Click here for list of Russian films with English subtitles and links to watch them.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    [quote:104o8mzj]Я написала, что современное российское кино - это жалкие потуги на Голливуд.
    Да, именно это и называется "ставить в один ряд". [/quote:104o8mzj]
    Простите, delog, но это НЕ называется "ставить в один ряд". Это называется сказать то, что я сказала. Потуги - они потуги и есть.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    ski-ops...

    How sad....I just read... "Actor Vladimir Garin, who played Andrei, drowned shortly after the end of shooting in a lake near the one where several of the picture's scenes were filmed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film)

    There is an 8 minute clip online for anyone who wants to just watch a short bit of the film (no subtitles though)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf3TexZCFqo
    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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    Click here for list of Russian films with English subtitles and links to watch them.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    As for "Возвращение" - it's not bad for me (here it sounds better to say 'it's not bad in my opinion'). But... I don't share common delight in it. First of all, the film seemed... Italian or something to me. I mean, I did not recognize the Russian environment in it. Say, a house. I never saw houses like that in Russia (of course, it doesn't mean there are not any at all, but it's just my impression_). I think all this looked rather like an Italian house and Italian family. Well, Italian or something. Somewhere in the south. While I was watching the movie, I was not able to understand where it happened - I mean not only a country, but a region or a city either. I think those guys easily could turn out Europeans, not Russians - there would not be any need to change anything in the movie. So this part was abstract to me. So the movie touched me less.

    Oh, that's odd. I read a little about the movie and it was definitely filmed in Russia, not far from St. Petersberg.

    I wonder if any other russians noted anything similar when watching the movie. I would hate to think such an element could ruin what should be a character and relationship driven story.

    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    ski-ops...

    How sad....I just read... "Actor Vladimir Garin, who played Andrei, drowned shortly after the end of shooting in a lake near the one where several of the picture's scenes were filmed." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film)
    Yeah, it adds another sad element to an already poignant film.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Everyone!!!

    As we have some new people joining the thread (YEAH!!), I thought it might be useful for me to post my list of films that I have been keeping. This also might prove handy for anyone who visits this thread in the future and may want to watch any of these films.

    As you will see, I not only have the name of the film (English & Russian), but also a link (if I have one) to watch the film and the Wikipedia site about the film.

    If you notice any films missing from this list that we have already mentioned, please let me know and I will update. Then if this thread stays active, I will repost updates of this list every so often.

    Once again, I would like to thank EVERYONE for what started as me just wanting a good line or two for “Dmitri” and turning this into such a wonderful and entertaining experience. I cannot begin to expresses (there really aren't enough adjectives for me here) how much I have enjoyed watching the films so far and l can’t wait to see the rest on the list.

    Please feel free to suggest additional films, books or music of any genre!

    And of course... if you have any questions about American/English language films... ask away!!!

    Alphabetical order (English)*

    "12" (razgnevannyh muzhchin), 2007
    (This film is based off of an American play and the 1957 American film "12 Angry Men")
    http://www.mininova.org/tor/1964056%...0DVD%20quality
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_(film)

    “17 Moments of Spring”, (Семнадцать мгновений весны) , 1973
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aAFq_jz3Ao0
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sevente...ents_of_Spring

    "An Usual Wonder" aka "An Ordinary Miracle", (Обыкновенное чудо, Obyknovennoye chudo), 1978
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFkqkkGCmpg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Ordi...le_(1978_film)

    "Beware of the Car", (Береги́сь автомоби́ля) 1966
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wuXhtsEG-uQ
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beware_of_the_Car

    “Charodey" or "Sorcerers" or "Magicians”, (Чародеи), 1982
    http://torrents.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1288203
    (could not find English subtitles though...)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charodey

    "Day Watch", (Дневной дозор, Dnevnoi dozor), 2006
    (This film is the second of four, loosely based on the novels by Sergei Lukyanenko)
    http://movie25.com/day-watch_669.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Day_Watch

    “Formula of Love”, (Формула любви), 1984
    http://www.memocast.com/mediadetails.aspx?id=25932
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_of_Love_(film)

    “Gentlemen of Fortune”, (джентльмены удачи), 1972
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unCrwgV5kr8
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gentlemen_of_Fortune

    "Heart of a Dog", (Собачье сердце, Sobachye serdtse), 1988
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HvlcJv9vV7k
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heart_of_a_Dog

    "Irony of Fate", (Ирония судьбы, или С лёгким паром) 1975
    (This film is traditionally broadcast in Russia and some other former Soviet republics every New Year's Eve)
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4HA-OClMPA
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irony_of_Fate

    "Ivan Vasilievich Changes Occupation", (Иван Васильевич меняет профессию) 1973
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJSi0kgyX5k
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Va..._to_the_Future

    "Kidnapping, Caucasian Style" or "Prisoner of the Caucasus", or "Shurik's New Adventures", (Кавказская пленница, или Новые приключения Шурика, Kavkazskaya plennitsa, ili Novie priklucheniya Shurika), 1967
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f_GeTxEDsGg
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kidnapp...aucasian_Style

    "Kin-dza-dza!", (Кин-дза-дза!) 1986
    http://rapidlinks.ru/link/?lnk=13024
    And watch it with these subtitles http://www.divxsubtitles.net/page_su...n.php?ID=99972
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kin-dza-dza!

    "Night Watch", (Ночной дозор, Nochnoy dozor), 2004
    (This film is the first of four, loosely based on the novels by Sergei Lukyanenko)
    http://movie25.com/night-watch-nochnoi-dozor_907.html
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Night_Watch_(2004_film)

    “Office Romance", (Служебный роман) 1977
    http://www.memocast.com/mediadetails.aspx?id=186861
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Office_Romance_(film)

    "The Cuckoo", (Кукушка, Kukushka), 2002
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZenTDFIwMN8
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo_(film)

    "The Diamond Arm", (Бриллиантовая рука), 1968: (very bad Russian soundtrack)
    http://www.youtube.com/view_play_lis....%201294194DFD
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Diamond_Arm

    "The Hounds of the Baskervilles", (Приключения Шерлока Холмса и доктора Ватсона: Собака Баскервилей), 1981
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lB43qJRywvc
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Hou...es_(1981_film)

    “The Return”, (Возвращение)
    http://www.memocast.com/mediadetails.aspx?id=28600
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zf3Te...o%20subtitles)
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Return_(2003_film)

    “The Stroll”, (Прогулка Progulka), 2003
    (could not find yet online)
    http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0372478/

    "Volkodav (Wolfhound)", (Волкодав), 2006/2007
    torrent only
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkoda...nd_Clan_(film)

    "White Sun of the Desert" , (Beloe Solntse Pustyni/Белое солнце пустыни), 1969
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfXtD0_8Quc
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Sun_of_the_Desert

    *updated Jan 08, 2009
    New links for "Kin-dza-dza" (thanks, Olya)
    Link added for "Charodey", Russian only (thanks, Olya)
    Added "The Cuckoo"
    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
    Check out the MasterRussian Music Playlist
    Click here for list of Russian films with English subtitles and links to watch them.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    (even a one sentence review E-Learner!)
    Be it for better or worse, but it turned out to be rather more.

    I’ve watched “12” yesterday. After that I re-watched “12 Angry Men” (1957), just couldn’t help myself .

    My overall impression – I like “12 Angry Men” more.

    What follows are my impressions, disconnected and inconsistent, of and from different aspects and scenes of “12”.

    In my understanding of the word “remake” “12” isn’t a remake of “12 Angry Men”. Although many details of the original story are kept intact, the story as a whole is used just as a framework for depicting contemporary Russia. My impression is that they packed too much into this film and were unable to cope with it properly.

    They did a good job in making the film to feel Russian. After one particular episode I found myself thinking: "It just couldn’t be like that in the original but it’s exactly how it must be!” And sure enough, re-watching “12 Angry Men”, I found that scene remarkably different.
    It’s a scene where they vote for the very first time.
    Americans:
    The chairman invites to vote guilty. People raise their hands. People keep their hands raised so that the chairman could count them, which he does: “One, two, three, four, five, six, seven …. (a pause, one man didn’t raise his hand) eight, nine, ten, eleven.” The procedure is repeated for “not guilty”. One man. Somebody says: “Boy, oh boy. There’s always one.”
    People are unpleasantly surprised. They are annoyed. Still, their attitude is of “Well, s**t happens, but nothing’s extraordinary there, we will cope with this, one way or the other.”
    Russians:
    Somebody asks for clarification whether the first vote is for guilty or not guilty and somebody else says: “Did you ever vote? Just raise your hand and all will be OK!” (It’s a joke, of course, but truthful and, in the circumstance, frightening joke.) The chairman invites to vote guilty. People raise their hands. Somebody, habitually, says “unanimous”. People immediately start leaving the table. The chairman insists that the procedure should be completed. People return (nobody has the slightest idea that somebody didn’t vote, nobody can even imagine that that could happen). Voting for not guilty. The chairman, habitually, begins to say “no….” and then notices a man with a raised hand, as he’s sitting not far away. It takes some time for the idea to sink in.
    People are stunned.
    Now, I don’t know whether the American procedure is depicted true to the American character, you tell me that, but I can tell you that that scene in “12” feels painfully truthful.

    I think that story of “12 Angry Men” isn’t very believable on Russian material. Or maybe they didn’t know how to make it believable. Also, acting. It wasn’t very convincing. I don’t know who’s to blame for that - actors or scriptwriters. One scene was especially painful to watch. It’s the last speech of the man who was the last to surrender. It was clearly constructed so as to bring tears to viewers’ eyes. In my case it failed to do that utterly (the American one succeeded).

    And the last thing. “12” is quite openly politically charged. I don’t like that sort of thing and I don’t want to talk about it.

  8. #88
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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    "Kin-dza-dza!", (Кин-дза-дза!) 1986
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOTcQGqxALA
    That's a variant with the terrible, hideous, totally inaccurate translation. Never watch it if you want to watch this movie. Otherwise you'll see some other movie, not that which Danelia shot.

    Better download the movie here http://rapidlinks.ru/link/?lnk=13024
    And watch it with these subtitles http://www.divxsubtitles.net/page_subti ... p?ID=99972

    ---
    I also recommend "The Cuckoo":
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZenTDFIwMN8
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Cuckoo_(film)

    ---
    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    “Charodey" or "Sorcerers" or "Magicians”, (Чародеи), 1982
    (could not find yet online)
    http://torrents.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1288203
    (could not find English subtitles though...)
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

  9. #89
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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    I second "The Return"! Do you know that it's the only film which won two prises in Cannes at one go?
    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    --
    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    “Charodey" or "Sorcerers" or "Magicians”, (Чародеи), 1982
    (could not find yet online)
    http://torrents.ru/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1288203
    (could not find English subtitles though...)
    You can find them here: http://subtitry.ru/subs/ENG/
    (under "Magicians" title, two parts). A great collection of the subtitles, BTW.

    And I'd like to recommend a few more films. I don't have time for whys now, but I'll write later why I think they are worth watching, and add some links.

    1) Brother (Брат/Brat, 1997) - a cult movie in Russia (and do not mistake it with "Brother-2" which differs in atmosphere).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brother_(1997_film)
    2) Thief (Вор/Vor, 1997) - nominated for Oscar, another 13 wins & 9 nominations
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0124207/
    http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/1084815-thief/
    3) Burnt by the Sun (Утомленные солнцем/Utomlyonnye solntsem, 1994)
    http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0111579/

    Then don't forget Soviet "musicles", that were insanely popular (and some of them still are). Most of them were based on the novels and plays of the 16-18th сentury writers and depict adventures and romances in the age of chivalry.
    ** I'll add links later **
    3) D'Artanyan and Three Musketeers (Д'Артаньян и три мушкетера/D'Artanyan i tri mushketyora, 197
    4) The Dog in the Manger (Собака на сене/Sobaka na sene, 1977)
    5) Truffaldino from Bergamo (Труффальдино из Бергамо/Truffaldino iz Bergamo), 1972

    And probably some children films and cartoons (they are lovely, really ), but that's for another time. Your list is already long.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Then don't forget Soviet "musicles", that were insanely popular
    Speaking of these, it's impossible not to mention "Hello, I'm your aunt!". It was insanely popular. Kalyagin became a comic superstar overnight. It was an incredible performance. Just mentioning his name brought a smile on people's faces, and everybody knew why.

    Hello, I'm Your Aunt! (Здравствуйте, я ваша тётя!) 1975
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qUpG0pMr ... re=related
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hello,_I'm_Your_Aunt!

    And don't forget - it's in two parts!!


    Even nowadays, if a phrase "... from/in Brazil" comes up in conversation, sometimes people just can't restrain themselves and add "where there are a lot of wild monkeys".

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Quote Originally Posted by E-learner
    Quote Originally Posted by rockzmom
    (even a one sentence review E-Learner!)
    Be it for better or worse, but it turned out to be rather more.
    Yes, you indeed do more! E-learner, you did a fanstastic job on your review !

    I may have to rewatch 12 Angry Men myself after I watch 12.

    Quote Originally Posted by E-learner
    Now, I don’t know whether the American procedure is depicted true to the American character, you tell me that, but I can tell you that that scene in “12” feels painfully truthful.
    Both my husband and I have served on American Jury Trials. They were both one day simple trials. I asked him this question as well and both of us remember that we did paper ballots and it was after a brief discussion of the facts. It was not right away.

    Now, in my trial, in the courtroom after the vertict was read, our jury was asked for a "poll." This can be done and it means that we were eached asked our verdict in the case
    http://law.jrank.org/pages/9266/Polling-Jury.html.
    I only speak two languages, English and bad English.
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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Book Talk!!!

    We haven’t talked about books too much and I want to for just a quick few minutes.

    As I mentioned, I purchased the three books from the “Watch” series that are available here in the U.S. (the fourth one had a printing error and is scheduled to come out in March).

    I started reading Night Watch the first chapter takes the reader to the Moscow Metro and listed several names of stops. I wondered if these were actual names of stops or made up ones so I went to the computer and pulled up a map of the Metro and sure enough, there on the Orange Line (or do you call it line 6?), were the stops from the book; Prospekt Mira, Rizhskaya, Alekseevskaya, and Exhibition (it takes so little to amuse me)!

    Also during the first few pages, the main character, Anton, is listening to music. The lyrics from the song he is listening to are printed in the book and they are of course in English. I wondered what the corresponding song was in the original Russian version. I sent off a PM to the forum member who suggested the movie to see if they had a copy of the book since they had mentioned that they had read it. They did and scanned for me not only the pages that had the song, but the cover of their book as well (you forum people are so nice ).

    It turns out that the same song was used for both books. A song by the group, “Blackmore's Night” called “Shadow Of The Moon” http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ArOS_WsT1tw

    Now, what is even more interesting to me was that the lyrics in the Russian version, were also in English and when I saw the scanned page from the Russian book, I immediately noticed that the lyrics had several typographical errors.

    The lyrics should read:

    Feel no sorrow, feel no pain
    Feel no hurt, there’s nothing gained…
    Only love will then remain,
    She would say.


    Here is a scan of that page.


    I also thought that the Russian cover was much better than the U.S. cover. With the U.S. cover, you have no clue as to what the book might be about. The Russian cover at least gives you a clue that the book has vampires. Now, of course, this could be good or bad, if you want the element of surprise… On the back of the U.S. book, the description does state… “Others. They walk among us, observing. Set in contemporary Moscow, where shape shifters, vampires, and street sorcerers linger in the shadows, Night Watch is the first book of the hyper-imaginative fantasy trilogy from bestselling Russian author Sergei Lukyanenko.” Now to be honest, based upon that and the boring cover, I probably would not have bought this book.

    Here are copies of both covers.
    RU Version


    US Version
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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Quote Originally Posted by Оля
    Soviet cinema was great, it was true ART, it was about people and for people.


    Из более-менее современных фильмов мне запомнились "Звезда" (2002)

    [video:1pqceodb]http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=Rr538OuRruk[/video:1pqceodb]

    и "Свои" (2004)

    [video:1pqceodb]http://pl.youtube.com/watch?v=_fj-Fw8Z3tU[/video:1pqceodb]

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    смотрел вчера "возвращение" (здесь можно смотреть: http://intv.ru/view/?film_id=4238), но особое впечатление не произвело на меня. актеры убедительно играли и.т.д., но все же...
    Не откладывай на завтра того, с кем можешь переспать сегодня
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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Review

    "12" (razgnevannyh muzhchin), 2007
    (This film is based off of an American play and the 1957 American film "12 Angry Men")
    http://www.mininova.org/tor/1964056%...0DVD%20quality
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/12_(film)


    Hubby and I watched “12” and found it a rather interesting film. We both agreed very early on that if you took out all of the flashback scenes and changed the Chechen boy to an Hispanic boy (in our area Hispanic refers to anyone from Mexico or Central America) or an African American boy, this film easily could have been relocated here (Washington, D.C. area).

    As I am an outsider looking into your world, I have absolutely no idea if the prejudices portrayed in this are an accurate depiction or not. I can tell you it would be an accurate depiction where I live and it is a sad commentary that we as a society have not come very far since this play and movie were first made in the 1950s.

    I am not certain how many of you know of the Immigrant backlash that is going on in the Washington, DC area or not. I can go into on this detail if people want me to; but, suffice it to say for now, that on my street, I am known as “The American.” When we purchased our home in 1992, it was not that way.

    Personally, I think the film could have done without the war flashback scenes. To me, once again, an outsider, they were not necessary to tell the story and I feel they were purely done for political reasons. The story here is about the differences between people and the events of our lives that shape each of us as human beings. What we believe or don’t believe about ourselves and other. Whether they are a little or a lot and how much these differences influences our lives and what we think of both ourselves and others. I do not need to see images of war combined with the personal character stories to get this.

    With all that said, even IF this film is not an accurate portrayal of the situation in Russia, I do highly recommend this film. I believe that anytime we can see how others view people and it might help us to learn and understand, to get people to discuss the situation, even a little, then it is a good thing. Yes, as E-learner stated, the acting is a little over done in places and just try to ignore the war scenes!
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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    rockzmom,
    while you were watching the movie, didn't a question occurre to you: Why doesn't anyone discuss the testimony of the boy? Didn't that seem strange to you? Is it really possible that he didn't tell the court his own version of the events? Or maybe you think he doesn't speak Russian well enough? That would be very strange since he spent in Moscow about 10 years. Anyway, he should have said at least something. Okay, let's go further.

    The motive of the murder seems completely made up out of whole cloth. I can't imagine an officer, a military man who is so capricious and doesn't want to move to another apartment. There is no any tragedy in it. It's very common in Russia and in Moscow - the old houses are being demolished and people get new apartments (gratuitous, of course). I mean, I can imagine some old man or old woman who lived all their life in a house and doesn't want to change their lodgings - well, after all, they're old, they can be capricious, and they can have their reasons. But an officer... Who has completely another values... Who fought in the war... Who spent all his life in garrisons and presidios(?)... Who has a son to care about, after all.... It is VERY strange.
    And, about the motive. Those who built new houses and sell new apartments are rich enough to arrange the affairs without any murder. If the man didn't agree on the new apartment they offered him, they could offer him a better one, in another district, etc, etc.

    Further.
    The most important thing: I don't know how it is in the US, but in Russia, a wing of a house under construction CAN'T be planned on the place where another apartment building stands!!! That just CAN'T happen! Or rather, it can be planned, but the construction CAN'T be started while people live in that house, and until it is demolished. So it CAN'T be. In NO WAY.

    Further.
    Where on Earth did the character of Makovetsky get that stupid photo of the female neighbour where the killed's wife was cut off? Was he at the neighbour's place? Even if she had such photo - do you really think she would bring it to the court? Or that she would show it to anyone? To a juryman? What for?? All that looks very false.

    They say in the movie that the guy would be killed if he doesn't go to the prison. That's a total nonsense. There are no any reason for that. Can you tell me any?
    Then again, they say, "he has nowhere to go". Why on Earth?? Did he live with his foster father without any right? If he's not convicted, then he has all rights, and he can return to the father's apartment, the very same one. The house could NOT be demolished while someone is registered there.

    Another falsity. Do you really believe that a wife can throw a smoothing iron at her husband silently, without any word or scream just one second after he gave a slight clip on the back of the son's head?
    And does it look natural to an American viewer when jurymen are throwing knives at each other? Maybe it looks great and gives some drive to the scene, and makes the film more "action film", but it is falsehood. No one would do it in real life in a situation like that. Even a Caucasian.

    We both agreed very early on that if you took out all of the flashback scenes and changed the Chechen boy to an Hispanic boy (in our area Hispanic refers to anyone from Mexico or Central America) or an African American boy, this film easily could have been relocated here (Washington, D.C. area).
    That's the point where I agree with you. But do you find it good? You know, I'm asking myself, "Why a Russian director is making an American movie?.."
    The more abstract and "universal" are the environment and the characters, the less reliable, the less individual it is, the less it touches a viewer.

    And, by the way, I might be not in the know, I might know less than Mikhalkov, but I can't say that such xenophobia (with respect to other ethnic groups in Russia, and especially to the kids and young guys, and especially to those who live in Moscow for many years and actually are completely assimilated) is widespread among more or less educated people like those jurymen, among people of their age and their social standings. Really. It's not like the situation with your Hispanic guys. So the problem itself which is touched upon in the movie seems completely farfetched to me.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Оля, you too passioned on the literalism of movies and, also, to Russian films expect to be "Rusish". It's your choice, no one can argue with it, however, why on Earth you need to impose people to your point of view or it's just such thick hint? Don't you think, that every person has different taste and own vision of the situation? All these little detailes you so carefully pointed out cannot even be noticed for many people which miss them or just overlook. This one is not even a documentary to be so thoughtfully judged on such criterias.
    Moreover, make notice, that rockzmom said:
    even IF this film is not an accurate portrayal of the situation in Russia
    That exactly means that she doesn't care about all of these fuss realistic details. That's not a point to appreciate this movie for. So, if you are a "connoisseur of pure art" and it's so important for movies you like to be "exactly like in reality" or "everything has to have sense" just stay away of it and have nothing deal with it. Presence of Russian stereotypes also doesn't make movies better(no doubts, this is just my point) . I would rather prefer to watch Russian movies without any special identity but with a proper quality. In most films referring to Russian life looks silly and a better thing would be just avoid it without big necessity.
    So, a point from my side about this movie, if you are no so passionate on Russian reality(its providing at the film) and would be glad to watch "fine enough" remake of that original old movie, go forward. Actually, this is the same story with a new cover and coverage, even though some people can be disagreed with it.
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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Quote Originally Posted by Scrabus
    Оля, you are too passioned on the literalism of movies
    I am not, it's your wrong impression. But I do think movies like that should have to do with reality.

    and, also, to Russian films expect to be "Rusish".
    No. I just think that every national cinema always has its own "features". Say, Soviet cinema was exactly about life around, and about problems which excited people around. That's why it's so long-lived and popular. Every director should make films about things he knows thoroughly. That's why we see awful products when Americans try to make a film about Russians and Russian life. That's why Soviet/Russian directors never made movies about life, say, in Indonesia. And I hope they never will.
    That's what I mean when you notice me "expecting Russian films to be Russian".

    It's your choice, no one can argue with it, however, why on Earth you need to impose people to your point of view or it's just such thick hint?
    When and where did I impose people to my point of view? I'm just telling people my thoughts. If I sound too convincing to you, that's not my fault!

    Don't you think, that every person has different taste and own vision of the situation?
    Who told you that I don't?

    All these little detailes you so carefully pointed out cannot even be noticed for many people which miss them or just overlook.
    No one argues against that. But I am not "many people" and I say what I think.
    I can tell you a big secret: if cinema was ten times worse than it is, "many people" would watch it and like it anyway.
    If there was not Жванецкий, "many people" would like Петросян, anyway.

    Moreover, make notice, that rockzmom said: [quote:26uxhaph]even IF this film is not an accurate portrayal of the situation in Russia
    That exactly means that she doesn't care about all of these fuss realistic details.[/quote:26uxhaph]
    I think she can say herself if she wonders about my opinion and if it's interesting to her, okay?

    So, if you are a "connoisseur of pure art" and it's so important for movies you like to be "exactly like in reality" or "everything have to have sense" just stay away of it and have nothing deal with it.
    Scrabus, don't you think you are simply rude here?

    Not to mention your nice invitation to stay away, I could say that I never said that movies have to be "exactly like in reality" and especially that "everything has to have sense".

    Presence of Russian stereotypes also doesn't make movies better(no doubts, this is just my point) .
    I never wrote anything about stereotypes. I don't think stereotypes is a good thing.
    In Russian, all nationalities and their corresponding languages start with a lower-case letter.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    As far as I know Russian jury trials don't require a unanimous verdict, just a simple majority, so the whole premise was slightly nonsensical from the outset once the setting was transported to Russia, but I enjoyed it all the same. The performances made up for the shortcomings.

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    Re: Favorite movie/book phrases or quotes??

    Olya,

    While I pondered how to repond to your posts, I realized that you actually made an excellent supportive argument for my original post and proved my reasons why people should see this film.

    Before I get into the main text here, I did want to answer one quick question that you have asked about the film:

    Where on [s:27whvxag]E[/s:27whvxag]earth did the character of Makovetsky get that stupid photo of the female neighbour where the [s:27whvxag]killed's[/s:27whvxag] murdered husband's wife was cut [s:27whvxag]off[/s:27whvxag] out?
    At the beginning of the film, as the jurors are getting ready to leave the courtroom and go to the school, the neighbor asks the bailiff if she can have her photos back that she gave to the judge and he tells her no. So the neighbor herself gave them over as evidence.

    Now, onto my response…

    Most of the items in the film that could be considered “flaws” by some, for me just weren’t germane enough points in the story to matter. It is just like the flashback scenes, to me, they were not relevant, they could have been 100% accurate or not, it did not matter to what I considered the main point of the movie.

    Each person brings with them their own unique experiences and viewpoints into a situation, into this Forum and Thread. For you, it appears that the movie was not realistic, because you have not experienced or witnessed firsthand a number of things that happened in the film or simply could not believe them to be true and this took away from your film experience. You could not suspend belief and this is a major thing that needs to happen for a person to “enjoy” a film. While I on the other hand, eitehr didn't care or could believe them to true and even if I had a little difficulty with them, I decided that possibly, just possibly they could be true.

    Let me try to illustrate by using just one comment you made in your post (I could cite examples for each one) :

    Another falsity. Do you really believe that a wife can throw a [s:27whvxag]smoothing[/s:27whvxag] smoldering iron at her husband silently, without any word or scream just one second after he gave a slight clip on the back of the son's head?
    Apparently, you have been very fortunate in your life and have never experienced or known anyone who has experienced Domestic Abuse. I on the other hand, have witnessed firsthand a wife throwing one of those old heavy telephones at her husband’s head without any warning. Literality ripping it out of the wall as she did it, only because she was angry with him. And just as in the movies, it happened so quickly, I was unable to utter any sound and therefore unable to warn the man that he was about to be struck upside the head and to duck.

    So, for me Olya, this is not a “falsity.” This is not some made up fictional story line that could never happen and this is part of what I bring to the table versus what you or someone else would bring to the table. It is how we are different and how our backgrounds and views of the world would lead us to maybe find someone innocent versus guilty. To have compassion in a particular circumstance or not. It proves the entire point of the film.

    We all have emotional, psychological and prejudicial baggage that we carry around with us. It clouds our judgment, for better or worse. This film helps explore those differences whether they be Russian, Chechenian, Jewish, American, doctor, undertaker, circus performer, scientist or something in between IF we open up our minds to the possibility that they exist.
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