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Thread: Права Человека в России

  1. #21
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    Re: Права Человека в России

    Quote Originally Posted by Johanna
    I guess there are three options:

    1) What he is saying is more or less the truth
    2) He genuinely THINKS that it is true, but it isn't..
    3) He's lying on purpose for some reason.

    I think it's very hard to say which option it is...
    I was too lazy to reply right away, and now I won't reply much either.

    I just can't imagine how this delirium fancies could be "more or less the truth". And what does "more or less" mean?
    Perhaps for a Brit or an American, or an aborigine from Indonesian islands the idea of Putin conveying menaces to someone through Irina Hakamada sounds verisimilar; if so, they don't have any idea about Russia, FSB, Putin, and so on. Maybe Putin doesn't have enough special agents for this job? Is he stupid, or completely insane? People who swallow what Litvinenko says don't even know who is Hakamada, most likely.
    Also, if what he is saying is more or less the truth, can someone tell me any convincing reason why he doesn't name Listyev's murderers (not even in this interview, but in any other either)? As for me, personally, I wonder who it was. I think we all do. So why?
    Also, how can an adult, a former FSB agent seriously say rubbish like "someone told someone, the second someone told me, so I can be a witness"? Doesn't he really understand how naive and stupid it sounds? If he were to be a librarian or postman, probably he wouldn't. But here, excuse me, it's another situation.
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  2. #22
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    Re: Права Человека в России

    Firstly I apologize for commenting on this thread so late in the game. I know some folks in some forums are irked by that and I don't mean to be annoying. Delete me or skip me if you don't want to read me, I don't mean to be a pest.

    @ Оля: You have a very good point about the "someone told me/ someone told someone ... " etc. That video is basically as reliable, referring to concreteness of fact, as something out of the Conspiracy Theory set - David Icke, etc. (NB: I'm only referring to both groups being people that stand in front of an audience, saying "This is true, and I have evidence," but never *giving* that evidence - beyond that I'm drawing no comparison.) So as much as I have been prepared by the various medias (in the States, at this late stage, there are like three or four visible families of media (grouped by difference of opinion) that have reported to us something about the Litvinenko case (and each insinuating the guilt-finger at a different source) ), still I myself feel I *can't* trust what is merely somebody's word on the subject.. Even someone as well-informed as a Litvinenko would be.. without any evidence.. In my country I, dare I say we, learned in 2001 that when there is no concrete evidence, anyone can say anything about what happened, and the only argument will be a thin, easily muted voice of protest which, in the case of New York, was lost in the dust of Building 7 and the convoluted poison-pill Mike Moore docs.. And then when that voice is DOUBTED (Bush/Moore poison-pill) or SILENCED (Litvinenko & Politkovskaya, etc.), there's nothing to stop the Powers from writing the history books as they see fit.

    But this doesn't only refer to Presidents and governments. In a dust-cloud of confusion and with doubt having been cast on the characters involved, it's plausible that ANY organization involved in the matter could bamboozle the others, just by announcing their version with confidence.. So who's lying? Is Litvinenko lying here, as was said, to align himself toward his new employers? Or is the government motivated to lie in this situation?

    I am too confused to utter a good opinion, but there are some tiny little bits of fact that stayed with me, and it's the closest thing to an answer I've got. Tell me if perhaps it is naive of me.

    First, the odd, radioactive poisoning method. I don't have as much information on this as I'd like, but it is my understanding from a PBS documentary on the topic that I'd seen, that access to this particular chemical was more likely to be had by Chechnyans than by Russians proper. Don't know how true this is since it was info taken from the media. But it has the ring of truth - I'd only heard about this sort of chemical poisoning twice before, once being the whole Dioxin thing which is pretty recent; the other being a VERY hard to believe story, about the death of Bob Marley, who had cancer of the toe that metastasized throughout his body and killed him - the story went that before a concert, he put his foot into a boot that had been in an outfit rack briefly remanded by CIA operatives, who put a tack with a carcinogenic material into the boot; and logic arranges the rest of the story - - The problem I, everyone I shared that with in fact, had with that story was that the larger government-backed organizations, CIA, FBI, KGB, FSB, etc - that these groups would have 1) Less sloppy ways to get the job done, and 2) Less RISKY ways, with less of a reticent trail to be swept up afterward, and less of a total footprint if all should go awry and the tale should be kept by dead men at the end of the day.

    However, something that America has been guilty of in the past, is the poison-pill technique, which to but it bluntly is to let your brother take the fall - arrange your evidence so that it looks more likely to be the guy standing next to you, than to be you. (Ex: "Moon landing faked? Maybe. But moon landing faked even while the US movie theatres are full up with movies that are ABOUT the moon landing being faked?? No way, our government's too smart for that - if there's a movie making fun of it, it never really happened!" (aka Throw a frog in boiling water and he'll jump out; but put him in cold water and cook him slow, and he'll boil to death.) ) From an observor's eye, one COULD make the leap of judgment, that using Polonium is very, very un-Kremlin-like, and in that wise might be the perfect way to get the job done, and leave only false trails behind.

    I do know this much, and if anything I said here is worth reading, it's probably only this: As a Westerner, I can say that I never, for one second, believed ANY side of this argument - not Litv., not PBS, not the UK stations, not the US stations, not even the RUS stations. Americans are pretty well used to being lied to now. And I for one hardly believe anything media says anymore.

    Оля, on the other hand, is pretty convincing. =)
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