Thread: RT coverage on gay rights in Russia

Originally Posted by Deborski

and disagree with the anti-gay laws at the same time.

You say about "anti-gay" laws so much, but you even don't provide the point why you think it's "anti". Have you read it? Do you know what it is really?
And, of course, I don't understand why we should bother about idiots who think they may be arrested in Russia just because they are gay. There are thousands gays in Russia. Can you call me at least one person who was arrested because he is gay?

Originally Posted by Paul G.

You say about "anti-gay" laws so much, but you don't provide the point why you think it's "anti". Have you read it? Do you know what it is really?
And, of course, I don't understand why we should bother about idiots who think they may be arrested in Russia just because they are gay. There are thousands gays in Russia. Can you call me at least one person who was arrested because he was gay?

That is exactly what I tried to ask already...

Originally Posted by Боб Уайтман

That is exactly what I tried to ask already...

Good! Then Paul can answer your "questions" satisfactorily and I assure you, his answers will please you much more than mine would.

Bob, what you call a "constructive discussion" - looks to me more like a "step by step" dismantling of everything I stated, ie, a debate where you pick apart every sentence, every word, every syllable and I am supposed to eagerly do the same in return. But I don't want to. I don't want to debate it. I do not care what you believe. If you don't understand my logic, then no amount of explaining is going to get through to you and frankly I do not have the energy to explain it further.

Paul, I reiterate, not gonna engage you in debate on this topic. Especially considering your starting platform where you assume so many bad negative things about me as a person, as regards my level of knowledge, etc. I see no point in trading insults.

There is nothing insulting in my questions. I just want to know you are informed properly or maybe we are talking about concocted bullshit. According to your 'answers' I make up a conclusion that you are simply an uninformed coward.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

There is nothing insulting in my questions. I just want to know you are informed properly or maybe we are talking about concocted bullshit. According to your 'answers' I make up a conclusion that you are simply an uninformed coward.

Nope, Paul. Nothing insulting about THAT, at all.

And no, you are not going to get an answer from me. Спокойной ночи, Паша!

Originally Posted by Paul G.

...According to your 'answers' I make up a conclusion that you are simply an uninformed coward.

According to some of your posts and language it's obvious that you are a longtime hardcore bully.

And this is precisely why I don't see any point in answering Paul's or Bob's questions, although Bob was a tad more polite than Paul.

I've discussed this and other subjects enough times to have developed an almost sixth sense when it comes to knowing how a particular discussion will unfold. When there are thinly veiled insults, or not-so-thinly veiled insults, in a person's comments to begin with, it seems logical to deduce that any further discussion will degrade to less subtle insults, and then open insults, flaming and general douchebaggery.

And that, ladies and gentlemen, is simply not my cup of tea.

I most definitely do have strong opinions on this subject, as well as sound logic for having reached the conclusions I have. I was raised in a very strict fundamental religious sect where homosexuality was considered a sin along with just about everything else. Eating bacon, wearing cosmetics, swearing, working on the Sabbath Day, and dating outside of my church were also considered "sins." We even avoided certain kinds of crackers and marshmallows because they contained LARD! Oh the humanity!

It has taken me many, many years of hard introspection and deep meditation to work through the layers upon layers of lies I was raised with, and I credit my dear friends in the former Soviet Union (one of whom is gay) for having helped to set me on that path of self-exploration, the path of truth.

There is no way I can sum up in a short argument, among people who are less than likely to respect or understand my journey, things which it took me years to understand. You will simply come to it on your own, or not come to it. I have absolutely no interest in changing anyone else's opinion, and I have even less interest in allowing anyone to bully or intimidate me.

What a big text about nothing! Do you want to start another book with concocted facts in it? So, you admitted that you know nothing about the topic. Congratulations.

Well. I wanted to be constructive. And I wanted to clarify open questions without insulting anyone. So I suggested the form of specific questions and answers (my post RT coverage on gay rights in Russia). I clearly formulated the questions, some of them are very simple, just "yes-no" questions. None of my questions contained any personal accusation.

Some people may not like my analogies I provided to make my point clearer. I explicitely apologized for some crudity they contain. Although they did not contain any personal insult directed to any specific participant. I just HAD to provide them to show the whole topic is as obscene as my examples are.

However, some persons accused me in being "pejorative", in "attacking" them, instead of clarifying their position in a constructive manner. That's all what I got in exchange. It is like "everything you do is BAD just because it is BAD, no logic accepted".

What should I do now? I have to sum up the idea I tried to convey. And leave the discussion forever.

Summary:
1. There is no law which prosecutes gays for being a gay. It does not exist.
2. There is a law which prevents minors from being inveigled into any non-traditional sexual behavior. So, the law prohibits promotion of the non-traditional relationships to minors. That's how it is written there. It does not explicitly specify gays, lesbians and other sorts of that behavior.
3. There is absolutely no reason for any gay guest of the Olympics to be arrested or punished, if they are not involved into the activity of Item 2. Please read item 2 carefully prior to judging.
4. If there are many people in the U.S. who are seriously concerned by the possibility that some athletes, journalists etc. can be punished at the Olympics, it only means one thing: the U.S. mass media are deliberately lying to them. So, they do not explain what this law is about. Instead of telling the truth, they feed up the hysteria by calling it "anti-gay law".
5. In addition to what is stated above, there is no reasonable way how we can even know about someone's orientation. No one is going to ask anyone "Are you a gay?" That is not even supposed to happen. It is a private thing, and the majority of people here do respect private life, they are not interested in intervening it.
It is the U.S. where a public discussion of someone's pregnancy (as I heard of it) can be a norm. But here even pregnancy is not an appropriate thing to be discussed publically, not to mention someone's orientation.

No issue exists.

That's all I wanted to say. I have nothing to add more. And I am quitting this discussion now. Who wants to accept the logic, they will. Otherwise it is absolutely useless to keep arguing. No more posts will be made here ever.

But my question is, after the gays are "dealt with" who will be next? Jews? Atheists?

I bet on atheists, but being atheist I'd say, it is not the end of the world. Just sad. No one persecutes nobody (until that nobody want to take a bit money or influence)

Originally Posted by Paul G.

What a big text about nothing! Do you want to start another book with concocted facts in it? So, you admitted that you know nothing about the topic. Congratulations.

Again, I reiterate, what point is there in me talking about anything with any of you? Paul's last comment sums up the kind of hostility I am facing here. He attacks me, insults me, claims my story is "made up." Feel free to read my story if you want to know more about me. It's posted in the blog section. It isn't "made up" - why would I go to the trouble of writing 40 chapters of "made up" stuff? But if people are already hostile and attacking me, then of course it follows suit that they are going to disparage anything and everything I say, attack my character and my person, and then call me the "liar." None of this surprises me in the least. It's just all the more reason that I have no desire whatsoever to share my opinions with you.

I get that all of you posting here hate gay people. But why focus that hostility on me? Why bully and push and press me when I have stated multiple times now, that I have no wish to discuss it with you? I am not interested in trading insults with people who hate gays, and hate me simply because I support gay rights.

I am bowing out of this thread. And I have no doubt that Paul and others will make a few nasty, snarky comments about me after I go. Have at it, if that makes you feel better about yourselves. But in reality, it says more about you than it says about me.

Now, be sure to like each others' comments, pat each other on the back, and feel like you are such great guys because you put me "in my place." Just as effectively as the pigeon in the example above.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Again, I reiterate, what point is there in me talking about anything with any of you? Paul's last comment sums up the kind of hostility I am facing here. He attacks me, insults me, claims my story is "made up." Feel free to read my story if you want to know more about me. It's posted in the blog section. It isn't "made up" - why would I go to the trouble of writing 40 chapters of "made up" stuff? But if people are already hostile and attacking me, then of course it follows suit that they are going to disparage anything and everything I say, attack my character and my person, and then call me the "liar." None of this surprises me in the least. It's just all the more reason that I have no desire whatsoever to share my opinions with you.

I get that all of you posting here hate gay people. But why focus that hostility on me? Why bully and push and press me when I have stated multiple times now, that I have no wish to discuss it with you? I am not interested in trading insults with people who hate gays, and hate me simply because I support gay rights.

I am bowing out of this thread. And I have no doubt that Paul and others will make a few nasty, snarky comments about me after I go. Have at it, if that makes you feel better about yourselves. But in reality, it says more about you than it says about me.

Now, be sure to like each others' comments, pat each other on the back, and feel like you are such great guys because you put me "in my place." Just as effectively as the pigeon in the example above.

Закроем эту грустную тему на время. Деббочка, спасибо тебе за твою доброту и нескончаемое терпение.