Thread: Controversial Problems in Russian and Some Other Societies

This is an off topic from Edward Snowden and his stay in Russia
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This is the most intelligent thread I've read about Snowden.
Snowden is free to leave the Transit Area now and enter Russia.
Сноуден получил справку ФМС о разрешении пребывания в
Snowden received a certificate of FMS to be accepted in Russia - source - the Russian newspaper

My opinions: Snowden is very dedicated to politics and that's cool. PRISM did violate the 4th amendment of our Constitution. But it's a useful program.
Since we have the technology to spy on everybody then that's what is happening. And if somebody stopped it, then it could still happen again. So there is really no way to stop it.
Snowden should be very happy that Russia accepted him. It does not help Russia for him to be there but Russia is strong and they are willing to let him stay.
Btw, President Putin is not weak. He is a great man and it's President Obama who looks weak.

About other issues I read in this thread:
America is called the strongest and richest nation on Earth. Does that make it the best? A person can stay home all day and play video games, watch movies, swim, eat, study, and play tennis. But do we need that much?
The "best" nation on Earth is the one they are happy living in and that's not always the one they were born in. So I wonder if Snowden was really happy living in America. There are lots of reasons not to be.
I live in a safe place but I've read about all the crime, race riots, flash mobs, and other things in the news. I've even been to some of the cities and the people there are scary!
When I see some of the worse pictures of Russia, they still look better than the worse pictures of America. Maybe Snowden saw the same pictures.
America is not the best country and Americans are not the best people.
Well, no country is perfect and every country has problems so the only thing that really matters is if somebody is happy living there. And I think Snowden wants a perfection that doesn't exist.
But Russia is an awesome country and I hope he will be happy there. I know I would!

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

But Russia is an awesome country and I hope he will be happy there. I know I would!

Unless you happen to be gay, of course. Russia is not a good place right now to be gay.

And will not.

Originally Posted by Deborski

Unless you happen to be gay, of course. Russia is not a good place right now to be gay.

Yeah, I kinda noticed that, lol. That's cool! They can leave all those people in the USA. I really don't understand why they want to be gay anyway.
Grandad said that America was a Christian country but now it's not. They let people do almost anything here. Even gay parades. We never go to those or even watch them.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Yeah, I kinda noticed that, lol. That's cool! They can leave all those people in the USA. I really don't understand why they want to be gay anyway.
Grandad said that America was a Christian country but now it's not. They let people do almost anything here. Even gay parades. We never go to those or even watch them.

I have many close friends who are gay and lesbian. Not only do I go to the parades, I proudly support my friends and I am happy to have the freedom to do so. The US never WAS a "Christian" nation although right-wing religio-fascists are doing their utmost to turn it into a religious totalitarian state. You have the right to be Christian here, but you do NOT have the right to force ME to adhere to your beliefs.

People don't "WANT" to be gay. Who would willingly choose to be attacked and hated their whole life? They are born gay. It's in their DNA. I expect that you and others will disagree, but I've heard your arguments before, so don't bother because I will only block and ignore you. You will certainly gain lots of support for your beliefs in Russia, I am sorry to say. But you will also discover, perhaps someday, that beating the hell out of people just because they are different than you is WRONG. Right now, it's just gay people who are persecuted. Later on, perhaps others can be added to that list. Hitler also started out that way.

If you support actions like this...

36 Photos From Russia That Everyone Needs To See

...then I am very sorry for you, but I am a lot MORE sorry for the young people who are being beaten and killed by ignorant, homophobic haters like you.

I agree with Putin about Snowden. That does not mean I am in lockstep with everything else he does. Not by a LONG SHOT.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Yeah, I kinda noticed that, lol. That's cool! They can leave all those people in the USA. I really don't understand why they want to be gay anyway.
Grandad said that America was a Christian country but now it's not. They let people do almost anything here. Even gay parades. We never go to those or even watch them.

There is no doubt in my mind that America has changed drastically over the past few decades. But there are still places that Huck Finn would feel right at home. Just don't tell anyone, or they'll ruin it.

Gay parades in my opinion are public actions of minorities that supposed to support "rights" of that minority group. These parades have huge impact on social life of all social groups
I dare say that the same level of impact would be delivered by let's say neo-nazi parades (usually to show importance of one particular race)
Although some social groups tolerate gay parades and and some social groups tolerate nazi parades, the majority wins practically all the time.
We can debate on and on but reality check shows that majority of social groups in Russia do not tolerate gay parades, as well, as nazi parades.
Social groups in the US I would say split in half between gay supporters and gay haters (there is nothing black and white here, of course) that makes gay parades in the US very possible, but at the same time nazi parades is a taboo (however this doesn't make white racism and black racism less real)

You can always find people who would say: "what happened in Russia on gay parade is a bad thing" and people who would say: "what happened in Russia on gay parade is a good thing"
But you shouldn't say: "what happened in Russia on gay parade is a bad thing because it doesn't happen in the US", you would be just one step closer to saying something like "There is only one true God - Allah and people who don't believe in this should not live on Earth"
There are many things that are different in different countries and that's life. You can try to change it but be ready to face consequences.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Originally Posted by UhOhXplode

Yeah, I kinda noticed that, lol. That's cool! They can leave all those people in the USA. I really don't understand why they want to be gay anyway.
Grandad said that America was a Christian country but now it's not. They let people do almost anything here. Even gay parades. We never go to those or even watch them.

Totally agree. Russia's got the right end of the stick. People's sexuality should be a private matter, not something to display in parades, in particularly for gay people, since it's offensive to many.

It's one thing to persecute people for their sexuality (wrong), but quite another to allow a minority to ram their peculiar and potentially offensive sexuality down the throat of people who find it offensive, as happens with gay pride parades. I'm against pornography as well, for that matter. Sexuality should be private.

Originally Posted by Deborski

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

Does it mean that the very same thing happens with gay parades right now?
Like: "I'm not a gay - I don't care about the parades"?

Originally Posted by Doomer

Does it mean that the very same thing happens with gay parades right now?
Like: "I'm not a gay - I don't care about the parades"?

It's one thing to "not care" about the parades, it's another thing to encourage violence against people because they are gay (or black, or Jewish, or Russian, etc, etc etc) I am referring to this: 36 Photos From Russia That Everyone Needs To See

Also, this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jzcgy5NkeaE
Note that the dudes carrying the whips and attacking, beating, hitting gay protesters are wearing t-shirts which say "by the word of GOD."

Seems very Nazi to me. Just saying. I do not expect anyone on this site to agree with me. But then, I don't care. I am used to having an unpopular opinion. On the other hand, I'm a loyal friend - unlike many in the world today. I would fight to the death to protect my friends, whether they are gay, or Russian, or whatever.

Originally Posted by Deborski

It's one thing to "not care" about the parades, it's another thing to encourage violence against people because they are gay (or black, or Jewish, or Russian, etc, etc etc) I am referring to this: 36 Photos From Russia That Everyone Needs To See

Yes, but you just showed what happened to people who "not care" about nazis, shouldn't people "start to care" as an opposite option?

Originally Posted by Deborski

Note that the dudes carrying the whips and attacking, beating, hitting gay protesters are wearing t-shirts which say "by the word of GOD."

Seems very Nazi to me. Just saying.

Very high chance that they are
One minority fights another minority

I remember a movie, where Bruce Willis stays on the street in the middle of "black neighborhood" wearing a sign that says - "I hate niggers". If I remember correctly he almost got killed, for wearing the sign(sounds awfully familiar when we talk about parades of any kind), so "if you happen to be a white guy - don't go the US", right, Deb?

Originally Posted by Doomer

Yes, but you just showed what happened to people who "not care" about nazis, shouldn't people "start to care" as an opposite option?

If you're afraid that gays will become Nazis... I'm afraid all I can do is laugh!

Originally Posted by Doomer

Very high chance that they are
One minority fights another minority

I remember a movie, where Bruce Willis stays on the street in the middle of "black neighborhood" wearing a sign that says - "I hate niggers". If I remember correctly he almost got killed, for wearing the sign(sounds awfully familiar when we talk about parades of any kind), so "if you happen to be a white guy - don't go the US", right, Deb?

I'm not saying that it is WISE to hold a gay parade in the middle of a city where the majority of people despise gay people and think they should be executed.
But that doesn't excuse the actions of those who attacked and beat them, does it, Doomer?

By the way, I found this study fascinating and revealing (even though it confirmed something I've known for a long time):

Homophobic Men Most Aroused by Gay Male Porn | Psychology Today

Anyway, I have no wish to further derail the Snowden thread into a debate about gay rights. As far as Russia goes, gays have no rights. But it saddens me that people are so easily distracted from the REAL ISSUES, by silly things like trying to control what others can or can't do in bed.

Originally Posted by Hanna

Totally agree. Russia's got the right end of the stick. People's sexuality should be a private matter, not something to display in parades, in particularly for gay people, since it's offensive to many.
It's one thing to persecute people for their sexuality (wrong), but quite another to allow a minority to ram their peculiar and potentially offensive sexuality down the throat of people who find it offensive, as happens with gay pride parades. I'm against pornography as well, for that matter. Sexuality should be private.

Yeah, I don't like seeing people getting hurt but sex is a private thing and there's no reason to have it in a parade.

Originally Posted by Deborski

I have many close friends who are gay and lesbian. Not only do I go to the parades, I proudly support my friends and I am happy to have the freedom to do so. The US never WAS a "Christian" nation although right-wing religio-fascists are doing their utmost to turn it into a religious totalitarian state. You have the right to be Christian here, but you do NOT have the right to force ME to adhere to your beliefs.

People don't "WANT" to be gay. Who would willingly choose to be attacked and hated their whole life? They are born gay. It's in their DNA. I expect that you and others will disagree, but I've heard your arguments before, so don't bother because I will only block and ignore you. You will certainly gain lots of support for your beliefs in Russia, I am sorry to say. But you will also discover, perhaps someday, that beating the hell out of people just because they are different than you is WRONG. Right now, it's just gay people who are persecuted. Later on, perhaps others can be added to that list. Hitler also started out that way.

If you support actions like this...

36 Photos From Russia That Everyone Needs To See

...then I am very sorry for you, but I am a lot MORE sorry for the young people who are being beaten and killed by ignorant, homophobic haters like you.

I agree with Putin about Snowden. That does not mean I am in lockstep with everything else he does. Not by a LONG SHOT.

Okay, I didn't write that very well.
"Grandad said that America was a Christian country but now it's not. They let people do almost anything here. Even gay parades." -- That's what grandad said. I was just repeating it.
"We never go to those or even watch them." -- My parents never take me to gay parades. That's not a topic they even want to discuss. But I'm not gay so that's cool.

Gay bashing is just wrong in so many ways! I've heard that happens in public schools too but I've never seen it because I'm in home-school and it never happens here.
And no, I don't have the right to tell anyone what to believe. Religion is personal. People have to decide what they believe about life.
Me? I'm a Christian and I believe the Earth is 4.5 billion years old and that there were dinosaurs and there could be people living on exoplanets in space somewhere. Grandad is a Christian too but he has a different way of believing.

About President Putin. I already said in my first post that no country is perfect. So he's not perfect but I think he's doing a good job... better than President Obama. My little brother could do a better job than Obama.

Originally Posted by Deborski

If you're afraid that gays will become Nazis... I'm afraid all I can do is laugh!

When people cannot find valid arguments to support their believes they start picking on opponents, for example laughing at them
Just saying

Originally Posted by Deborski

But that doesn't excuse the actions of those who attacked and beat them, does it, Doomer?

I don't think it excuses them, no
But I don't think we should blame one side and not to blame the other, as you were trying at the beginning.

Originally Posted by Doomer

When people cannot find valid arguments to support their believes they start picking on opponents, for example laughing at them
Just saying

Doomer, it isn't that I can't find a valid argument, it's that I think your supposition is just laughable. Please don't take it personally. I'm not laughing at you, just at the idea that you think gays are like Nazis! I am picturing Nazis in rainbow SS uniforms now and laughing my butt off! But not laughing at you.

gay_nazis.jpg

Originally Posted by Doomer

I don't think it excuses them, no
But I don't think we should blame one side and not to blame the other, as you were trying at the beginning.

Doomer, we are never going to agree on this subject, and that is fine with me. But you live in the US now, not Russia, so surely you have had to do some thinking about this subject.