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Thread: Learn Ukrainian here! Вивчайте українську мову

  1. #1
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    Learn Ukrainian here! Вивчайте українську мову

    I am not a Ukrainian, nor do I know much about the language, but hopefully others will contribute. But I can start off with the Ukrainian alphabet. I'll just give the Russian equivalents:

    If no Russian equivalent is given in brackets, then the letter is the same as in Russian


    А а
    Б б
    В в
    Г г (voiced Russian x)
    Ґ ґ (Russian г)
    Д д
    Е е (Russian Э)
    Є є (Russian E)
    Ж ж
    З з
    I i (Russian И)
    Ї ї (Russian йи - English yee, as in yield)
    И и (Russian Ы)
    Й й
    К к
    Л л
    М м
    Н н
    О о
    П п
    Р р
    С с
    Т т
    У у
    Ф ф
    Х х
    Ц ц
    Ч ч
    Ш ш
    Щ щ
    ь
    Ю ю
    Я я
    ’ (Russian hard sign ъ)


    Note 1: - Г, Ґ and Х
    In Russian there are voiced and voicless pairs of consonants:
    ф в
    п б
    з с
    for example. But in Ukrainian there is another pair: г and х. Ukrainian x is the same as Russian x. Ukrainian г is the same sound as x but with vibrations of the vocal cords. It sort of sounds like a English h.

    The letter Ґ represents the Russian Г, or the english G. This sound is very rare in Ukrainian, and even when this sound is present in a word, the Ukrainian still use the symbol Г to represent it.


    Note 2: - Е, Є and Э
    In Ukrainian, Hard E is E, and Soft E is Є.
    Thus:
    Ukr = Rus.
    E = Э (get)
    Є = E (yes)


    Note 3: - И, I, Ї, Ы and Й
    Another thing that can get Russian speakers confused is that Ukrainian И is Russian Ы.
    Ukrainian I is Russian И.
    Й has the same sound in both languages.
    Ї does not exist in russian. It is basically the Russian И sound but with an initial Й sound. In English it would be written as yi or yee, as in the word yield.

    Ukr. = Rus.
    И = Ы (that funny sound)
    I = И (feet, beat)
    Ї = (йи) (yield)
    Й = Й (boy, York)


    Note 4: - ’ and Ъ
    Ukrainian uses an apostrophe ’ for the hard sign (Where Russian uses the letter Ъ). This aposrophe isn't considered to be a letter of the alphabet. ь is the same in both languages.


    And finally, there is no soft O (Ё) in Ukrainian.
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    ukrainian.newmail.ru

  3. #3
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    Here is a link to a site with Ukrainian language lessons.

    http://www.ukma.kiev.ua/pub/courses/UFL/

    The site contains 11 lessons, a glossary full of vacabulary, study tips, grammar help and downloadable crillic fonts.

    I have already printed out all the lessons. Since I have nothing to do this weekend, until my Pimsleur course arrives in the mail, I can study those lessons a bit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pathfinder
    Here is a link to a site with Ukrainian language lessons.

    http://www.ukma.kiev.ua/pub/courses/UFL/

    The site contains 11 lessons, a glossary full of vacabulary, study tips, grammar help and downloadable crillic fonts.

    I have already printed out all the lessons. Since I have nothing to do this weekend, until my Pimsleur course arrives in the mail, I can study those lessons a bit.
    Я це люблю - Ba ra ba ba ba
    Ingenting kan stoppa mig
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    Here is another good site. If you know very little Ukrainian, or none at all, this site could teach you essential vocabulary. Kids games give you visual and audio presentation of your new vocabulary. Don't be thrown off by the muppets, look beyond them.

    http://www.ukrainianpower.com/games.html

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    speciba!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bandera
    speciba!
    or, in Ukrainian:

    дякую тобі/вам or
    спасибі
    Ingenting kan stoppa mig
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    so ukrainian HAS a г sound? Why don't they ever use it.
    I mean, when they speak russian they don't pronounce И as Ы so why can't they say г for g, and not h?

    Of course, dont ever ask a ukrianian this, or they will go insane, but still. Something to ponder.
    Вот это да, я так люблю себя. И сегодня я люблю себя, ещё больше чем вчера, а завтра я буду любить себя to ещё больше чем сегодня. Тем что происходит,я вполне доволен!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy182
    so ukrainian HAS a г sound? Why don't they ever use it.
    I mean, when they speak russian they don't pronounce И as Ы so why can't they say г for g, and not h?

    Of course, dont ever ask a ukrianian this, or they will go insane, but still. Something to ponder.
    Yeh, I said to my Russian teacher (who is from Ukraine), how I would write my name in ukrainian, if I'd write Ґрeґ, and she was like. "What's that letter?" So I don't think Ukrainians actually use Ґ. She said just use Г, but they'll say "Hreh". Saying that, I'm sure in a song I heard "грає" with a hard G, so they do have the sound.
    Maybe it's because in Ukrainian, the Russian И sound is very common, just written as another letter (I), whereas the Russian G sound is extremely uncommon in Ukrainian. I'll ask my teacher, she's not a proper Ukrainian, she was just born there.

    The Russians aren't much better though. They have the letter X but they insist on using Г for english H. X is much closer sounding.
    Ingenting kan stoppa mig
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy182
    so ukrainian HAS a г sound? Why don't they ever use it.
    I mean, when they speak russian they don't pronounce И as Ы so why can't they say г for g, and not h?

    Of course, dont ever ask a ukrianian this, or they will go insane, but still. Something to ponder.
    Southen Russians also pronounce the "г" as more of an "h" sound.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy182
    so ukrainian HAS a г sound? Why don't they ever use it.
    I mean, when they speak russian they don't pronounce И as Ы so why can't they say г for g, and not h?

    Of course, dont ever ask a ukrianian this, or they will go insane, but still. Something to ponder.
    Southen Russians also pronounce the "г" as more of an "h" sound.
    Yes. The G gets softer the further south you go. I was talking to a girl at university who is learning Ukrainian, and she kept arguing with me that its an H, and I was like, it is actually a G, just a soft and one produced further down the throat. If you listen very carefully you can hear it.

    Also, am I right in saying it IS the voiced conterpart of Russian and Ukrainian X???
    Ingenting kan stoppa mig
    In Post-Soviet Russia internet porn downloads YOU!

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    Maybe. However, in most languages I'm familiar with, the voiced counterpart of Х is usually a "gh" sound(Arabic "gh", Modern Greek gamma).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    Southen Russians also pronounce the "г" as more of an "h" sound.
    I know a guy from Rostov who can/ does say 'G'. You can't really get much more south than that, unless you're comming from the lovely vacation spot of grozny.
    Вот это да, я так люблю себя. И сегодня я люблю себя, ещё больше чем вчера, а завтра я буду любить себя to ещё больше чем сегодня. Тем что происходит,я вполне доволен!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy182
    Quote Originally Posted by Pravit
    Southen Russians also pronounce the "г" as more of an "h" sound.
    I know a guy from Rostov who can/ does say 'G'. You can't really get much more south than that, unless you're comming from the lovely vacation spot of grozny.
    I like how on Master Russian if anybody ever makes a general statement people always try to disprove it with an individual case.
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    I like how you're wrong 98% of the time but you still open your mouth 100% of the time.

    Besides, it's true. Александр Яковлев From Ростов на дону.

    I've known him for about 3 years (i saw him yesterday). His accent was pretty "ok!" to me (and his Г's were all there too).
    Вот это да, я так люблю себя. И сегодня я люблю себя, ещё больше чем вчера, а завтра я буду любить себя to ещё больше чем сегодня. Тем что происходит,я вполне доволен!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy182
    I like how you're wrong 98% of the time but you still open your mouth 100% of the time.

    Besides, it's true. Александр Яковлев From Ростов на дону.

    I've known him for about 3 years (i saw him yesterday). His accent was pretty "ok!" to me (and his Г's were all there too).
    Yes but that doesn't disprove what Pravit said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    ...
    The Russians aren't much better though. They have the letter X but they insist on using Г for english H. X is much closer sounding.
    Some foreign names were historically written with Г, where Х would be much closer. Germans are upset about their name Hans transliterated in Russian as Ганс (Gans), which means "goose" and "silly girl" in German. The reason being that Germanic H sounds like Ukrainian or dialectal Г to Russians and Ukrainian names were always spelled with Г. Also, there was probably an attempt to teach, which word was supposed to be pronounced as hard G and which with hard H. You should note that Russian Х is not like English H but like Scottish CH in Loch, or German "Bach". Ukrainian Г is voiced, not like English light H and in the end of the word may sound like Russian X.

    It is correct to pronounce God (бог) as [бох].

    Spelling these names with X is a mistake and in proper Russian they should be pronounsed as hard G.

    Гейне, Гамбург, гамбургер, гигиена, гиена, Генрих, Генри, Голландия, гипноз, но

    Some new borrowings. There is a trend to spell names and borrowed words with X
    хокей, хот-дог, хостинг. Хелен Хант.

    As for Southern Russia - generally people pronounce Ukrainian Г in the South but not all people. A lot of educated people try to sound educated and are careful with their speech. I, for one was born in Ukraine, lived in south Russia and spent many years in Ukraine again. I use hard G when I speak Russian, same with my family. Same applies to Russians in Ukraine, you can't say everybody in the South, Ukraine, Belarus use "Ukrainian" Г.
    Anatoli - Анатолий - أناتولي - 阿纳托利 - アナトーリー - 아나톨리

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pathfinder
    Here is a link to a site with Ukrainian language lessons.

    http://www.ukma.kiev.ua/pub/courses/UFL/

    The site contains 11 lessons, a glossary full of vacabulary, study tips, grammar help and downloadable crillic fonts.

    I have already printed out all the lessons. Since I have nothing to do this weekend, until my Pimsleur course arrives in the mail, I can study those lessons a bit.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy182
    so ukrainian HAS a г sound?
    I don't think it does really. I think the letter for the occlusive г was simply introduced by purists (or whatever they are called) to try to make people pronounce more "correctly" words from other languages where the occlusive г/g is used (especially names). The people, especially common people in the country, don't have a natural occlusive г, so they use the fricative г anyway. They are simply used to that and can't easily learn to pronounce the occlusive г. Southern Russians also naturally use the fricative г (in the countryside practically everybody). I can tell you many of them don't even realize the difference between one г and the other. To them it's the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy182
    so why can't they say г for g, and not h?
    They are simply unable to. It comes to them gradually after they have lived in an environment there the occlusive г is used, for years.
    За ночь под свинцовым градом,
    За то, что меня нет рядом,
    Ты прости, сестра моя, Югославия...
    (Лена Катина, будущая "татушка", 1999 г.)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ljosha
    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy182
    so ukrainian HAS a г sound?
    I don't think it does really. I think the letter for the occlusive г was simply introduced by purists (or whatever they are called) to try to make people pronounce more "correctly" words from other languages where the occlusive г/g is used (especially names). The people, especially common people in the country, don't have a natural occlusive г, so they use the fricative г anyway. They are simply used to that and can't easily learn to pronounce the occlusive г. Southern Russians also naturally use the fricative г (in the countryside practically everybody). I can tell you many of them don't even realize the difference between one г and the other. To them it's the same.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dogboy182
    so why can't they say г for g, and not h?
    They are simply unable to. It comes to them gradually after they have lived in an environment there the occlusive г is used, for years.
    Yes, Ukriainian has a letter for the English/Russian g sound, but the sound itself appears in almost no native Ukrainian words.
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