I wish I were Russian

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

lol at Jjolly... Let's see a white guy go up to any group of black people standing on the street and give thim this like to say "What's up my niggaz" ?

No matter how "afircan american" he feels inside... just watch how fast he dies.

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LOL :lol:
Well, maybe I exaggerated a little. Nevertheless I belive that if a man feel like as he were born with black skin, wouldn't be killed by black people if he just approached to them and said something non-offensive.
"What's up my niggaz" IS abusing if you don't know people you are addresiing independent of colour of their skin. Just imagine, someone is coming to you and says "What's up, dude?" I know lots of people in Russia who won't wait anything else and crush his face at once. So what's the difference? :)

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Originally Posted by waxwing

joysof and lindzi, i'm amazed you were so hard on JJ about 'nigga'. You must know, as I do, that the Russians condsider 'nigr' (sp?) a totally normal word, and by inference all of them assume that 'nigger' and its variants in English are the same.
Or is it different in Moscow and St Pete? Do people there understand the rudeness of this term in English? Hmm I doubt it.

Feel free to educate but don't get all hoity-toity about it.

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Initially, it wasn't implied there were some differences between people in Russia (since 1917) But as a matter of fact the national tenses here are strong like anywhere else. You may say word "negr" in two ways; one will describe nationality (negr for many Russians is kind of nationality like Georgian, Armenian, etc.), the second way implies abusing usage of this word.
For instance, I had a company a few years ago, we just hung around the clubs, picked up some girls and so on :)
One of us was a real black man. I always addressed him "Negr", I even didn't know his name :) I would tell him "Hey, what's up, nigger" and it was OK, because we were a company. But once I was a witness how an unknown man called him "Эй ты, негр!" (Hey you, negr!) with angry voice, and then our negr beat him as hard as he could.
So hence the difference.

Two last posts are mine. (In case someone is interested in some clarifications)

The words Негр and чувак are hardly synonims if u ask me.

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Originally Posted by Dogboy182

The words Негр and чувак are hardly synonims if u ask me.

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Yes, they have absolutely different meanings. Why?

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Yes, they have absolutely different meanings. Why?

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я не имел в виду... well, i didn't mean... OK посмотри

Если человек говорит "Hey nigger" это хуже совсем чем "hey dude".

(В америке) белый человек не может сказать "негр" своим черным друзьям.

Если чувак подошёл к незнакомцу и говорит "hey dude"... это ничего страшного. Человек просто будет думать что тот чувак такой странный.

А если он "негр" говорит, сразу он башку получит !

понял ?

Слушай, классно ты по-русски пишешь! :wink:

В России ты не можешь подойти к человеку и сказать "Hey nigger" или "Hey dude". И то, и другое будет рассматриваться как оскорбление со всеми вытекающими последствиями :)
В России белый человек не может сказать "Негр" только своим белым друзьям. Если бы мои друзья были неграми, я бы к ним так и обращался - "Хей, негры!" :) Или если бы я был негром, а они - нет, то, например: "Хей вы, беломордые!" :) Потому что есть разница между другом и незнакомым человеком. Друг должен уметь тебя прощать и относиться с пониманием к тому, что ты говоришь, иначе он не друг а х@й собачий :)
Так что если я сейчас подойду к афро-русскому :) и скажу ему "Приятель", "Негр", "Мужик" и т.д. я однозначно получу по мордам :)
Понятно объяснил?

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Originally Posted by jjolly

Initially, it wasn't implied there were some differences between people in Russia (since 1917) But as a matter of fact the national tenses here are strong like anywhere else. You may say word "negr" in two ways; one will describe nationality (negr for many Russians is kind of nationality like Georgian, Armenian, etc.), the second way implies abusing usage of this word.

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But I thought you tended to call Caucasians chyorni, and reserved negr for African types.
btw, is that thing in your avatar from that poster where the guy's saying 'no to vodka!' or whatever?

waxwing, you're confusing two words - негр and нигер. Негр isn't offensive at all (consider "sombrero negro" in Spanish) while нигер is extremely offensive. Now, of course the word нигер isn't your original Russian word, a highly racist Russian word would be чёрный / черномазый / черножопый. Негр isn't offensive at all. Just don't start about how close to nigger it sounds in English, etc. - I don't care, it's a different language. For crying out loud, all languages have words which sound offensive to speakers of other languages. Take Swedish, for instance. A perfectly innocent phrase "I work" sounds like мат in Russian. Do the Swedes realise that? I bet they couldn't care less. Likewise we don't care either. If we were to care we'd have to keep our gobs shut for fear of offending someone who speaks, say, Palanesian or, say, Lower-Franconian. And of course I could give you gazillions of similar examples with other languages too.

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Так что если я сейчас подойду к афро-русскому :) и скажу ему "Приятель", "Негр", "Мужик" и т.д. я однозначно получу по мордам :)

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Ничего подобного. Просто говорить негр глупо - ты же не скажешь "привет бурят" или "здравствуй еврей". А вот сказать, например, что "Иван негр" - в этом нет ничего унизительного, так как в русском языке это слово всего лишь определяет, какой он расы. А вот за "Иван чёрный" точно дадут по морде и правильно сделают, так как это слово обидное. С другой стороны слово "чернокожий" не обидное, но слишком официозное.

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(Hey you, negr!) with angry voice, and then our negr beat him as hard as he could.

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Of course he felt offended (because the man meant evil - "in an angry voice"), but it doesn't mean that the word негр is offensive in Russian at all. It was simply used in the wrong context. Would you say "эй ты белый" to someone? People have names. If you don't know a person's name you don't call him/her anything or you use terms like "mate" (depending on the social setting of course). Simple as that. But saying их было четверо, двое китайцев и два негра isn't offensive at all. It may have been the black person's poor knowledge of Russian that contributed to his flipping his lid. I'm sure you've all heard of the so-called "false friends" - words which sound the same but mean something quite different. Well, негр is apparently one such word - it's offensive in English but inoffesive in Russian.

BTW, how about russki? Next time you hear your English-speaking friend use this word about you when speaking English, don't compliment him for making progress in learning your language, instead smash the c..t's teeth in.

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Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Ничего подобного. Просто говорить негр глупо - ты же не скажешь "привет бурят" или "здравствуй еврей". А вот сказать, например, что "Иван негр" - в этом нет ничего унизительного, так как в русском языке это слово всего лишь определяет, какой он расы. А вот за "Иван чёрный" точно дадут по морде и правильно сделают, так как это слово обидное. С другой стороны слово "чернокожий" не обидное, но слишком официозное.

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Я спорить не буду, но у меня было два знакомых человека, не русских (Один - негр, другой с Кавказа). Дак вот если бы ты к ним подошёл и сказал что-нибудь недружелюбным тоном (Неважно "Негр" или "Чувак"), любой из них ударил бы тебя по лицу моментально. Среди русских таких тоже хватает.
"Иван чёрный" - это что? Может, мы просто в разных городах живём?

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Originally Posted by waxwing

But I thought you tended to call Caucasians chyorni, and reserved negr for African types.
btw, is that thing in your avatar from that poster where the guy's saying 'no to vodka!' or whatever?

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Yes, you are right. In most cases "chyornie" - Caucasians and "negri" - Africans, but "chyornie" is very often used to describe all people with swarthy skin.
Avatar - yes, it's from that picture. I like his face - it's a typical face of a citizen of the Soviet Union in 40-50th :)

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Originally Posted by VendingMachine

Well, негр is apparently one such word - it's offensive in English but inoffesive in Russian.

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Yes, it turns out to be so. But I still can't understand - if this word is so offensive, why do black people use it talking to each other?

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Originally Posted by VendingMachine

BTW, how about russki? Next time you hear your English-speaking friend use this word about you when speaking English, don't compliment him for making progress in learning your language, instead smash the c..t's teeth in.

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LOL :D it's a nice joke :)
As to me, I don't beat people for their words, it's cruel & pointless.

jjolly, your question shows that you understand well enough.
It is indeed difficult to explain, maybe some American here can. It seems to me that it's all connected with slavery.
In London, growing up, nigger was just considered a very offensive word. I never heard my black friends referring to each other like that, except maybe as a joke.

During slavery times, that is how the caucasian addressed the afro-american.

ex. "Hey N....r, come here," " You stupid N....r." Just to show that it wasn't used in a nice tense...

So nowadays, if caucasians use the term, talk about prejudice and racism will occur.

Although I don't have a clue why they tend to use it amongst themselves , but, it is just accepted as normal now...

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Originally Posted by jjolly

Я спорить не буду, но у меня было два знакомых человека, не русских (Один - негр, другой с Кавказа). Дак вот если бы ты к ним подошёл и сказал что-нибудь недружелюбным тоном (Неважно "Негр" или "Чувак"), любой из них ударил бы тебя по лицу моментально.

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Ты еще меня не видел, а уже говоришь по лицу ударил. Ха-ха, ню ню. Сперва дотянуться до лица-то ручёнками надо. Да если дотянулся бы, кулачёнки мог и ушебить. Почти 2 метра ростом, атлетического телосложения. Ни грамма жира, сплошная сталь мускулов не хочешь?

Мне наплевать, как в их языках звучит это слово - если я говорю по русски, то слово негр в моих устах не обидное, потому что в русском языке оно не бранное. Если я говорю на другом языке, я уважаю те нормы, которые приняты в том языке. Тот, кто учит другой язык должен и принимать слова этого языка в культурном поле этого, а не своего, языка. Да, я понимаю, что тут имеет место интерференция с родного языка, но чтож поделать. Я, кстати, знаю чернокожего из США, прекрасно владеющего русским, и он прекрасно знает разницу в смысловой нагрузке слова "негр" в русском. Я согласен, что тут легко может произойти недопонимание, ну дык млин, учите язык, как говориться. Да, это "ложный друг переводчика" и что с того? Такие проблемы существуют во всех языках.

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Originally Posted by jjolly

"Иван чёрный" - это что? Может, мы просто в разных городах живём?

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В Петербурге есть люди от смешанных браков, есть и чернокожие россияне. Я лично знаком с несколькими, среди них есть и чернокожие, в том числе и Иван.

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Originally Posted by waxwing

jjolly, your question shows that you understand well enough.
It is indeed difficult to explain, maybe some American here can. It seems to me that it's all connected with slavery.
In London, growing up, nigger was just considered a very offensive word. I never heard my black friends referring to each other like that, except maybe as a joke.

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waxwing, thank you for the explanation. I'm not going to use this word when I visit the US one day (so as not to be prematurely killed by black people :), and also for the reason I've always respected other people and their way of living)
I guess it may be used when (as I mentioned before) relatives or close friends are talking to each other. My friends sometimes tell me offensive words, but it doesn't mean they express their scorn & hatred towards me. Just kind of joke.