Thread: grammar tutor for beginner

Marge: I could give piano lessons
Lisa: But you don't know how to play the piano
Marge: I just have to stay one lesson ahead of the kid

For all of you people just itching to judge me jump on the bandwagon and condemn me just because of 3 or 4 mistakes and say I can't tutor WHEN YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW ME (wtf is that about? wth kind of sense is that?) AND, comparing me to the Simpsons tv show!
Don't EVER say that again. I'm just as good as any of you when it comes to helping first year Russian students with grammar. Like I thought. Cocky, arrogant superiority complexes.
If I had known about this I'd have never came here to this site in the first place. All I wanted was to practice my own Russian, and get people to correct my mistakes (with constructive criticism), learn new vocab and grammar, help people who are new to Russian with grammar to get them started, and perhaps make a new internet friend in the process (which I have, in fact two Russians emailed me wanting to become internet friends and practice their English). I didn't agree to nor expected to be harrassed when I offered my services. I do it all the time. No one, I mean no one, has treated me the way you did. I don't believe this. What kind of people are on this site anyway?! Oh my God.

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

For all of you people just itching to judge me jump on the bandwagon and condemn me just because of 3 or 4 mistakes and say I can't tutor WHEN YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW ME (wtf is that about? wth kind of sense is that?) AND, comparing me to the Simpsons tv show!
Don't EVER say that again. I'm just as good as any of you when it comes to helping first year Russian students with grammar. Like I thought. Cocky, arrogant superiority complexes.
If I had known about this I'd have never came here to this site in the first place. All I wanted was to practice my own Russian, and get people to correct my mistakes (with constructive criticism), learn new vocab and grammar, help people who are new to Russian with grammar to get them started, and perhaps make a new internet friend in the process (which I have, in fact two Russians emailed me wanting to become internet friends and practice their English). I didn't agree to nor expected to be harrassed when I offered my services. I do it all the time. No one, I mean no one, has treated me the way you did. I don't believe this. What kind of people are on this site anyway?! Oh my God.

Whooooo, chill. Neither I nor Mike was talking about you specifically, nor was I ripping on your language skills. Since the issue of tutoring was being discussed, I expressed my opinion (as an educator, by the way - I'm a middle school teacher) that one cannot properly teach a subject unless one has mastered it. What's the problem here?

Incidentally, throwing a fit whenever someone points out your mistakes is not the way to raise your own ability level. Take the help, ignore the barbs, and act like a reasonable adult.

I'm just as good as any of you when it comes to helping first year Russian students with grammar.

No, you're not, based on what you've said and how you've acted in this thread. In many universities, first year students do progress into fairly extensive work with the cases and with irregular verbs. We certainly did so at mine. Explanations such as this:

You used the instrumental case here because these aren't proper nouns (with capital letters). Like when you say "he was Vladimir" you wouldn't use the instrumental case. I mean you can, but it not really used. You use the instrumental case to say something like "he was a wonderful scuba diver" but scuba diver is not a proper noun. So it goes like you wrote. водолазом.

and this:

In addition, you brought up the fact that I wasn't sure at first how to say спасибо за помочь. That is completely irrelevant! First of all, who'd teach смочь, мочь, or помочь to first year Russian students? It is simply too advanced. At my university that is simply not done. It wasn't introduced until second year Russian at my university. Give me a break!

simply aren't going to cut it. Saying that you're as skilled as say, Friendy, at helping first-years is simply ridiculous.

Back on the original topic: BJ Hendy, I'd like to suggest Schaum's Outline of Russian Grammar. It's not the world's best book at actual instruction, due to its rather low interest level and lack of situational application, but it's an excellent and concise reference for when, where, and how you use the cases and verb forms. I use it quite a lot to check my work, and it's the only reference I've seen that explained verbs of motion in a way that wasn't befuddling. If you combine the book with actual human interaction, it should be of great value to you.

Link: http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/de ... R&st=books

Whooooo, chill. Neither I nor Mike was talking about you specifically, nor was I ripping on your language skills. Since the issue of tutoring was being discussed, I expressed my opinion (as an educator, by the way - I'm a middle school teacher) that one cannot properly teach a subject unless one has mastered it. What's the problem here?

SY: I know that. My mother's going to be a teacher and that's what I keep telling here- that you cannot teach someone something until you know it fairly well yourself. But with Russian I teach that which I have mastered myself. I do not attempt to teach something that I still have trouble with or that which I have forgotten how to do. I know you cannot or should not mislead people. I am very careful. It is important to me that I do not mislead somebody.

Incidentally, throwing a fit whenever someone points out your mistakes is not the way to raise your own ability level. Take the help, ignore the barbs, and act like a reasonable adult.

SY: It seems to me that I act like more of an adult than some of the others here. When I attempted to say"thanks for the help" in Russian and screwed it up, someone corrected me. My response? "Oh, ok....thanks" and corrected myself. I wasn't the one who called someone names and made personal attacks. Unlike some people ("Pravit you're a jack@ss") and some other comments which I would never make. I did not say "Dogboy you're a whatever". It's true that I asked him if he had some kind of a superiority complex, but that isn't the same as saying "you're a....." and saying some kind of a harsh name. I don't believe in that and it is wrong. I was simply getting angry because I made a few little mistakes and people jumped to conclusions without me really even showing what I could do because I just haven't been here very long. THAT's what I didn't like. I can take criticism better than most people. I like people correcting my mistakes. That's what will help me to learn more.

Quote:
I'm just as good as any of you when it comes to helping first year Russian students with grammar.


No, you're not, based on what you've said and how you've acted in this thread. In many universities, first year students do progress into fairly extensive work with the cases and with irregular verbs. We certainly did so at mine. Explanations such as this:

SY: They do at mine too, but hth can you really teach the irregular stuff if you've got some students having trouble with the regular stuff?

"based on what you've said and how you've acted in this thread"

SY: And you really haven't got much of anything at all to base that opinion of yours on, let me remind you.

Quote:
You used the instrumental case here because these aren't proper nouns (with capital letters). Like when you say "he was Vladimir" you wouldn't use the instrumental case. I mean you can, but it not really used. You use the instrumental case to say something like "he was a wonderful scuba diver" but scuba diver is not a proper noun. So it goes like you wrote. водолазом.

SY: What's wrong with that? It's not a complete detailed explanation of all the times you need the instrumental case, but what I said here is right.


and this:

Quote:
In addition, you brought up the fact that I wasn't sure at first how to say спасибо за помочь. That is completely irrelevant! First of all, who'd teach смочь, мочь, or помочь to first year Russian students? It is simply too advanced. At my university that is simply not done. It wasn't introduced until second year Russian at my university. Give me a break!


SY: Well it wasn't. Like I said, I wouldn't introduce " смочь, мочь, or помочь" to first years if they haven't mastered "to know" and "to talk" well not only those verbs but those kinds of endings you can put on the verbs. I would teach "to be" though (because that is completely regular conjugation in past and future).


simply aren't going to cut it. Saying that you're as skilled as say, Friendy, at helping first-years is simply ridiculous.

SY: Friendy is a native Russian speaker. I wasn't talking about native Russian speakers. I didn't mean him/her. I know that saying that I am as good as Friendy would be ridiculous. Of course I'm not as good as a native Russian speaker. But, I don't think you have to be as good as a native Russian speaker to tutor first years. My Russian professor has his doctorate in Russian and he still makes mistakes in Russian grammar and everyone does. I don't see why I am getting all of this grief because I make mistakes, as if you don't make mistakes at all. If I found a mistake someone made here on this website I wouldn't throw a fit and say "Oh no! You can't teach!" Even if they offered themselves as a tutor I wouldn't say that, simply because I am aware that mistakes are part of life and everyone does it. It doesn't mean you are not qualified as I said. _________________

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

For all of you people just itching to judge me jump on the bandwagon and condemn me just because of 3 or 4 mistakes and say I can't tutor WHEN YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW ME (wtf is that about? wth kind of sense is that?) AND, comparing me to the Simpsons tv show!
Don't EVER say that again. I'm just as good as any of you when it comes to helping first year Russian students with grammar. Like I thought. Cocky, arrogant superiority complexes.

I was responding to Lindzi's message. I didn't even read your post, Captain Insane-o. Jesus Christ, you need to calm down.

Originally Posted by Friendy

Originally Posted by JJ

Friendy, I've read this thread again and it looks like we can make conversation in russian without any verbs in the present and the future tenses.
-Как дела?
-Нормально.
-Ты сейчас куда?
-Сначала на работу, потом к друзьям.
-Может вечером по пиву?
-Сегодня - нет.
-А завтра как?
-Я завтра в Москву.
-Поездом?
-Нет, самолётом. Назад через неделю....
...and the like.

True. It would be interesting to make a longer (and complete) story in that manner.

Originally Posted by alexei

LOL
Friendy, you're so smart, it seems you have answers for any questions, I even forgive you for wrong "right" pronunciation of "спросоня"

Thank you.

<offtopic>
Not sure if there is any longer story w/o verbs in russian like this one but there are a few meaningful stories with all words starting with the same letter, e.g. :

Пётр Петрович Петухов, поручик пятьдесят пятого Подольского Пехотного полка получил по почте письмо, полное приятных пожеланий. «Приезжайте», писала прелестная Полина Павловна Перепелкина. «Поговорим, помечтаем, потанцуем, погуляем. Приезжайте Пётр Петрович поскорей». Петухову приглашение понравилось. Поезд прибыл после полудня. Принял Петра Петровича почтеннейший папаша Полины Павловны, Павел Пантелеймонович. «Пожалуйста, Пётр Петрович, присаживайтесь поудобнее», проговорил папаша. Подошёл плешивенький племянник, поздоровался: « Порфирий Платонович Поликарпов». «Просим, просим».

Появилась прелестная Полина. Полные плечи покрывал прозрачный персидский платок. Поговорили, пошутили, пригласила пообедать. Подали пельмени, плов, пикули, печёнку, паштет, пирожки, пирожное, пол-литра померанцевой. Плотно пообедали. Пётр Петрович почувствовал приятное пресыщение. После приёма пищи, после плотного перекуса, Полина Павловна пригласила Петра Петровича прогуляться по парку. Перед парком простирался полноводный пруд. Прокатились под парусами; после плаванья по пруду, пошли погулять по парку.

«Присядем», предложила Полина Павловна. Присели. Полина Павловна придвинулась поближе. Посидели, помолчали, прозвучал первый поцелуй...

«Поженим, поженим!» прошептал плешивый племянник. « Право, поженим», пробасил подошедший папаша. Пётр Петрович побледнел, пошатнулся, потом побежал прочь. Побежав, подумал: « Полина Павловна — прекрасная партия». Перед Петром Петровичем промелькнула перспектива получить прекрасное поместье. Поспешил послать предложение. Предложение Полина Павловна приняла. Поженились. Приятели приходили поздравлять, приносили подарки. Передавая пакеты, приговаривали: « Прелестная пара».

( from here )
</offtopic>

Светлана Ежова

Can I ask you a favor? Could you learn how to use QUOTE button(tag)? It's sort of hard to read your posts.

and say I can't tutor WHEN YOU DON"T EVEN KNOW ME

Most the people here don't know each over, we just see what the other people write and how they behave. If you think people treat you the way you think unworthy, you should think of the reason and the reason in most cases isn't in other people.

I don't know, Alexei. I never mean to anybody. I mean I don't come onto a message board and start being mean. I always use proper "netiquette" and be respectful of others. I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm being flamed....
In that case then I did do something wrong and bad. I was an idiot and paid attention to it. But I was never flamed before. I have been using the net for years and never was flamed once. I am an unlikely target for a flamer because I'm not the kind of person anyone would want to start a flame war with anyway. Ask anyone if I was mean on this board. They would have to say no. If I was like that I'd be banned.

Svetlana. How can you say "Don't judge me, you don't even know me".


I don't even have to know you. I wasn't judging your personality, or work ethic, or fashion sense. I was judging your russian. I've seen enough to know i wouldn't send my 5 yr old off to one of your russian classes.

2nd. I don't remember what i was going to say, but if i was a teacher, 1st year would cover...


All verb conjugations
Verb aspects
Cases.

Seriosuly, i've been in highschool german long enough to know that skipping around gets people no where.

If you just people how to conjugate знать type verbs ( memories) and then teach them prepositional case, then teach them imperfective, then teach them 2nd declionstions, then teach them perfective...


Ahhh. People just get lost.

wtf is so hard about мочь ? Maybe i wouldn't teach a word like Стричь to first year students... But what, the чь ending is so scary ? So you expect 1st year students to go a whole year without being able to say "i can, can not"

Just suck it up and learn what you have to learn.

And no, Linsday would not make a mistake as basic as "за поможите меня" Nor would anyone who has studied for FIVE years.

I dont think any russian who has studied english for five years would say
"Today I am the sad. I had a bad help from the girlfriend mine. She say im not so romance as she likes"

Basic basic basic mistakes.

ITS NOT A HUMOR !

I don't even have to know you. I wasn't judging your personality, or work ethic, or fashion sense. I was judging your russian. I've seen enough to know i wouldn't send my 5 yr old off to one of your russian classes.

SY: No you haven't. I did not really write much in Russian at all to be honest with you people. Look at my posts. I haven't really shown what I know.

I've told you also why my Russian has gotten a bit rusty after studying for five years-I am finished my major and am doing things that have nothing to do with Russian language now, I am very busy. I just don't have the time anymore like I used to. I am trying to revive it all and get it back this semester. But I have studied it flor five years. It's your choice to believe me or not. I'm just telling it like it is. Also, my spelling. Sometimes I spell words wrong and put wrong cases in. That don't mean I don't know grammar. My hands slip on computer keys because I have fine motor and gross motor problems. I was also born with an underdeveloped cerebellum. This still affects my ability to type. I suspect you say some of my Russian spelling and grammar errors and concluded that I didn't know it when actually I do, it's just that my fingers slip on the keyboard alot when I am typing.

You would cover all verb conjugations and whatnot. well that's up to you what you would do if you taught Russian. I don't know about you, but I never learned all of them in my first year. (for example I never learned the conjugation for "yest" to eat- in the first year. And in my university they never taught people how to tell time in Russian until third year. I learned it in third year but that is one of the things I have forgotten how to do now) Maybe your university and professor was different? Tell me, when you did Russian what did you learn in the first year dogboy? The second? Third? Fourth?

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

I don't know, Alexei. I never mean to anybody. I mean I don't come onto a message board and start being mean. I always use proper "netiquette" and be respectful of others. I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm being flamed....
In that case then I did do something wrong and bad. I was an idiot and paid attention to it. But I was never flamed before. I have been using the net for years and never was flamed once. I am an unlikely target for a flamer because I'm not the kind of person anyone would want to start a flame war with anyway. Ask anyone if I was mean on this board. They would have to say no. If I was like that I'd be banned.

Going berzerk when people suggest that you may not be qualified to teach grammar because you make frequent grammar mistakes is not, in fact, proper netiquette. It's not proper anything. Unless you're British, in which case you could say that it's proper overreacting.

(Did I use the British slang correctly? )

ETA: OMFG, PLEASE learn to use the quote function.

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

my Russian has gotten a bit rusty after studying for five years-I am finished my major and am doing things that have nothing to do with Russian language now, I am very busy. I just don't have the time anymore like I used to. I am trying to revive it all and get it back this semester.

DUDE. I'm not saying that you suck. But if this is the case, you SHOULD NOT BE TUTORING. If your skills are rusty and you're in the process of trying to revive them, how do you expect to explain things to a n00b?

You would cover all verb conjugations and whatnot. well that's up to you what you would do if you taught Russian. I don't know about you, but I never learned all of them in my first year. (for example I never learned the conjugation for "yest" to eat- in the first year. And in my university they never taught people how to tell time in Russian until third year. I learned it in third year but that is one of the things I have forgotten how to do now) Maybe your university and professor was different? Tell me, when you did Russian what did you learn in the first year dogboy? The second? Third? Fourth?

Dog taught himself. He's teh_russkie_hotness. And I don't know where you went to school, but frankly: that's FUBAR. It's no wonder you're "rusty." What the heck did you DO for the first several years? By the end of my first year, I'd learned all the basic conjugation patterns, most of the common irregular verbs, and the basic rules of all of the cases.

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

1st year would cover...
All verb conjugations
Verb aspects
Cases.

All cases is too hard for most students.

Originally Posted by BlackMage

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

1st year would cover...
All verb conjugations
Verb aspects
Cases.

All cases is too hard for most students.

Most idiot students. It's an ENTIRE SCHOOLYEAR. You could do, like, one case a month and cover them all with time to spare.

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

That don't mean I don't know grammar

Hehe. Sorry

Anyways.

1) I'm still in highschool, so i have never even met a real life professor.
2) Thus, since i have never taken any russian classes, i tought myself.
3) I think i just reached my 2 year mark like, today, or soon.(Dogboy regsitered 2002 november) so, this is my second year learning.

In two years. The only major aspect of grammar i have not learnt is participles. And, it's not that i have no clue about them, i just havn't mastered them. But i know about things like Читать -ющий, сказать - зав
просить - стывшись etc.

I understand in college, you have more than one class, so you can't just donate all your time to learning russian, but, I have by no means studied russian EVERY SINGLE day for two years. I dont think i learnd a singe new thing all summer. But, now that i am in school again, and practically just speak russian all day, i get better and better.

Also, I learned how to pretty much conjugate within a month or so. Even russian in 10 minutes a day goes over 1st and 2nd conjugations, and give you some freebies on harder verbs.

But, ok. I'm ready to forgive you now for making spelling mistakes, sorry for disturb, have a day.

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

I don't know, Alexei. I never mean to anybody. I mean I don't come onto a message board and start being mean. I always use proper "netiquette" and be respectful of others.

Значит не хватает чего-то ещё.

Originally Posted by BlackMage

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

1st year would cover...
All verb conjugations
Verb aspects
Cases.

All cases is too hard for most students.

I thought this too before we started learning cases in german class. My german teacher knows kidz are dumb, and i figured i'd have to help half the class figure out what the subject was and blah blah, but, now i am in 3rd year german, and i have seen 2 classes understand (german) cases and catch on pretty quick. It's not that big of a deal, though yesterday it was like...

Teacher - Mit meiner muter. What changes with Miene?
Kid - Mit?
T- No, look at it again mit meinER muter
K- Muter?
T- No, look at MEIN
K- what?

I'm like OMFG Is it REALLY that hard ?

But in general, it's not that hard. It helps to use examples in english too. Even if words dont change, u still get a better idea of "indirect object", "possesor", "predicate", and all the other stuff they don't teach you in 4th grade.

DUDE. I'm not saying that you suck. But if this is the case, you SHOULD NOT BE TUTORING. If your skills are rusty and you're in the process of trying to revive them, how do you expect to explain things to a n00b?

SY: Easy: I did not forget all of it. And helping someone else helps me to remember it and keep it in top shape for my mind.


Dog taught himself. He's teh_russkie_hotness. And I don't know where you went to school, but frankly: that's FUBAR. It's no wonder you're "rusty." What the heck did you DO for the first several years? By the end of my first year, I'd learned all the basic conjugation patterns, most of the common irregular verbs, and the basic rules of all of the cases.

SY: Cool! Yes, I am impressed with dogboy..."he's Russkie hotness." He's hot, or his Russian is hot?
That's great he learned by himself. So did I. For six months prior to me starting university, I also taught myself Russian. I knew different verb conjugations, two cases, some verbs of motion, numbers....I frightened my Russian prof half out of his wits! He looked at me in suprise then blurted out "She knows too much for the beginner's Russian course! It's frightening!"
I am guessing that you people went pretty darn quickly with learning the grammar. Our professors went slow. I guess they wanted to make sure everyone understood the concepts before beginning something new.

By the way, Dog taught himself. What about you Lindsey (nice name by the way- sorry I never said that before- it's my cousin's name)? How did you learn? You teach yourself too? You say your a teacher. Do you teach Russian? That's what I want to do. Be a prof myself and teach Russianhistory and language.
Right now what I'd like to do here is practice speaking to you all in Russian-I mean writing to you in Russian, I mean typing-oh hell! You know what I mean. Would you type back to me in Russian and help me learn more? I write down new words in your posts to me, I memorize them. It will help me learn new words. I think BTW that I do not have opportunity to practice Russian enough which might also help to explain why I not as far along as you two are. Kirill is always busy and I don't really have anyone else. Will you help me? Then we can all get to know each other better. I'd be interested in getting to know you all better. Then we can all be friends.
However, if a newbie comes on and asks a question which I can answer I will answer it. Unless someone beats me to it (they probably will; this place is crawling all the time, ha ha).


_________________

Originally Posted by Светлана Ежова

SY: Easy: I did not forget all of it. And helping someone else helps me to remember it and keep it in top shape for my mind.

I don't want to sit on a high horse here, but you shouldn't teach in order to brush up your own skills. There are ways of brushing up your own skills without causing problems for impressionable n00bs.

Cool! Yes, I am impressed with dogboy..."he's Russkie hotness." He's hot, or his Russian is hot?

Heh. I'll let Sobakitchka take this one.

That's great he learned by himself. So did I. For six months prior to me starting university, I also taught myself Russian. I knew different verb conjugations, two cases, some verbs of motion, numbers....I frightened my Russian prof half out of his wits! He looked at me in suprise then blurted out "She knows too much for the beginner's Russian course! It's frightening!"
I am guessing that you people went pretty darn quickly with learning the grammar. Our professors went slow. I guess they wanted to make sure everyone understood the concepts before beginning something new.

Well, there's the problem. Students perform to the level expected of them. Period. Assume that students are brilliant, and they're a lot more likely to live up to it. Professors should push students, not wait for stragglers. That's study sessions are for.

By the way, Dog taught himself. What about you Lindsey (nice name by the way- sorry I never said that before- it's my cousin's name)? How did you learn? You teach yourself too? You say your a teacher. Do you teach Russian? That's what I want to do. Be a prof myself and teach Russianhistory and language.

I teach remedial reading, which sounds like a drag, but it actually splendid. I started learning Russian three years ago, at UW-Madison, which is the institution whence my degree came. My progress was aided by a summer at Middlebury Language School and five months doing an internship in St. Petersburg. I'm not the guru Dog makes me out to be, but I am functional as a Russian speaker.

Right now what I'd like to do here is practice speaking to you all in Russian-I mean writing to you in Russian, I mean typing-oh hell! You know what I mean. Would you type back to me in Russian and help me learn more? I write down new words in your posts to me, I memorize them. It will help me learn new words. I think BTW that I do not have opportunity to practice Russian enough which might also help to explain why I not as far along as you two are. Kirill is always busy and I don't really have anyone else. Will you help me? Then we can all get to know each other better. I'd be interested in getting to know you all better. Then we can all be friends.

Unfortunately, my computer doesn't have Cyrillic support, and I refuse to translit, as it rots the brain. Perhaps sometime I'll get the software to type in Russian (and then learn to type in Russian...ugh), but not at the moment. However, I'm sure others will be happy to communicate with you. You should begin frequenting the Russian Language Only subforum.