Thread: Wikipedia again

"Two Romes have fallen. The third stands. And there will not be a fourth. No one will replace your Christian Tsardom!"

Why "a fourth" and not "the fourth"? I'm always told that "first" "second" and other such... don't know how they are called... numbers must be with "the" ALWAYS!

What's the matter? Please, enlighten me

No, not always. You can say, a first, a second, a third, a fourth or the first, the second, the third, the fourth, etc.

eg. Both, "There's always a first time" and "There's always the first time" are correct.

But in that quote, it's actually awkward to say, "There will not be the fourth." Stylistically, "the third" is somewhat in contrast to "a fourth", which is why I think it's awkward to say "the fourth" in that quote.

I think that using "a" makes it less definite, hence "a fourth Rome", ie it's not definite because it hasn't yet happened.

"There's always a first time" - In general.
"There's always the first time" - Adds emphasis, one particular "first time".

I'm not certain though... I could be wrong.

Originally Posted by basurero

I think that using "a" makes it less definite, hence "a fourth Rome", ie it's not definite because it hasn't yet happened.

"There's always a first time" - In general.
"There's always the first time" - Adds emphasis, one particular "first time".

I'm not certain though... I could be wrong.

Yes, you're right, good explanation, the is more definite than a and using one or the other adds emphasis.

Honestly, "a fourth" sounds in this example much more pleasant to my ears. I was just thinking on how it could be possible. Again I say: my school textbooks suck greatly!

Thank you!!!

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thank you, charlestonian!
The matter is, my school teacher and my texbook kept telling me there could not be "a", by no means could it stand there!

I'm starting to wonder if we need a major English language teaching reform. :P

By the way, please, correct my mistakes

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

thank you, charlestonian!
The matter is, my school teacher and my texbook kept telling me there could not be "a", by no means could it stand there!

I'm starting to wonder if we need a major English language teaching reform. :P

By the way, please, correct my mistakes

Books are written by men, like everything else in this world. Errare humanum est. (lat). Always remember that and question everything.

Originally Posted by basurero

I think that using "a" makes it less definite, hence "a fourth Rome", ie it's not definite because it hasn't yet happened.

"There's always a first time" - In general.
"There's always the first time" - Adds emphasis, one particular "first time".

I'm not certain though... I could be wrong.

Basurero is correct. I agree with this. And I like Charlestonian's explanation also.

"a" is often used for something not definite, or simply conceptual. "The" refers to something definite, or has already happened, or something specific that I can point at, or touch.

This is one of the differences between "a" and "the".

Oh, who invented them? They're so difficult to handle for a foreigner.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

Oh, who invented them? They're so difficult to handle for a foreigner.

I'm sure Ramil would tell you it was CIA plot designed to weaken Russia.

Originally Posted by Vincent Tailors

Honestly, "a fourth" sounds in this example much more pleasant to my ears. I was just thinking _(about) how it could be possible. Again I say: my school textbooks suck greatly!

Thank you!!!

[quote=Бармалей]

Originally Posted by "Vincent Tailors":2up0qilj

Oh, who invented them? They're so difficult to handle for a foreigner.

I'm sure Ramil would tell you it was CIA plot designed to weaken Russia. [/quote:2up0qilj]


Indeed! Big brother watches you.

Thanks, basurero

Indeed! Big brother watches you.

The original phrase was "Big Brother is watching you"

>Always remember that and question everything.
Says who?

Originally Posted by chaika

>Always remember that and question everything.
Says who?

Refer to the occupation field in my profile.