Thread: Where did you get this black eye?

Can I say "Where did you get this black eye?" (Откуда у тебя этот синяк?).
Does it sound fine?

I would say, "where did you get that black eye?", it sounds more natural.

Originally Posted by strawberryfynch

I would say, "where did you get that black eye?", it sounds more natural.

+1

[шуточка]
что должен говорить женщине с двумя синяками под глазами?






ничто. уже сказал ей два раза.
[/шуточка]

pronunciation tip:

"Wheredja get that black eye?"

roughly: уерджя

In conversation "did you" usually becomes джя unless you want to really emphasize the words.

Originally Posted by paulb

In conversation "did you" usually becomes джя unless you want to really emphasize the words.

Or unless you don't come from America, but of course, no one outside American speaks English....

Оля, ignore paulb's 'advice'.

Outside America you add Mate or Bloke to the end of every sentence, depending on hemisphere.

Thanks everyone.

Yes, I understand that "Wheredja" is an American thing.

I can only apologize for my imperfect knowledge of non-american Englishes. I've taught classes on pronunciation here in the US and my current work involves evaluating speech by non-native speakers, so pronunciation issues are on my mind a lot. I just don't always know when some pronunciation issue is specific to american English.

I'll just point out, though, that this *did you-->didja* phenomenon is (within American English) not an isolated instance, but a consistent feature. See, if you ever get the chance, the discussion in Teaching Pronunciation: A Reference for Teachers of English to Speakers of Other Languages, Celce-Murcia, Brinton, and Goodwin pp. 157-172. This particular phenomenon is called palatalization and occurs any time s, z, t, or d are followed by y in an unstressed syllable.

Originally Posted by paulb

I can only apologize for my imperfect knowledge of non-american Englishes. I've taught classes on pronunciation here in the US and my current work involves evaluating speech by non-native speakers, so pronunciation issues are on my mind a lot. I just don't always know when some pronunciation issue is specific to american English.

I'll just point out, though, that this *did you-->didja* phenomenon is (within American English) not an isolated instance, but a consistent feature. See, if you ever get the chance, the discussion in Teaching Pronunciation: A Reference for Teachers of English to Speakers of Other Languages, Celce-Murcia, Brinton, and Goodwin pp. 157-172. This particular phenomenon is called palatalization and occurs any time s, z, t, or d are followed by y in an unstressed syllable.

Firstly, you must understand that most people in the world are actually taught British English in schools (this includes Russia) and I know that Olya is learning British English.

Secondly, these sort of pronunciations like 'did you' --> didya is almost non-standard, like going to --> gonna and I'm not sure how appropriate or necessary it is to teach them to non-native speakers. I don't think this sort of thing really concerns learners on a more basic level, I'd only think it'd be useful to those who are learning about English pronunciation / dialects on a higher level. Because basically in everyday speech a very large part of what we say is slurred / contracted / etc.

Also since this is a Russian language forum and we are Russian learners / speakers here, I don't think you need to explain what palatisation is, considering Russian exhibits one of the greatest degrees of palatisation of any language.

So I'm not saying your point wasn't valid, more that it wasn't necessary and was more likely to cause confusion then help Olya.

Furthermore, didja (where J is an English J sound like in jar) is not palatisation technically. English has a tendency for palatisation to slip to a hard consonant.

E.g. did + ya = didya (with a palatised d (дь)) However this tends to becomes dijja (диджа).

This is best demonstrated in British English.
American English pronounces the U in words like tube, dune, due, tuesday, tune as 'oo', i.e. toob, doon, doo, toosday, toon.

British English pronounces this U like 'yoo' so in good clear pronunciation you get 'tyoob', 'dyoo', 'tyoosday', 'tyoon' etc. However it's natural for English speakers for the palatised T and D to become Ch and J. So general most common (southern) British English pronunciations are
tube = "choob"
tune = "choon"
tuesday = "choosday"
due = "joo" (pronounced the same as the word Jew).
dune = 'joon' (pronounced the same as June).
etc.

Originally Posted by TATY

Secondly, these sort of pronunciations like 'did you' --> didya is almost non-standard, like going to --> gonna and I'm not sure how appropriate or necessary it is to teach them to non-native speakers.

I don't agree with this part (though I take the rest of your points).

In American spoken English:

Pass your plate = pashyur plate
Where's your fork = wherezhur fork
Why didn't you eat your soup = Why didnchu eachur soup
Where did you hide your spoon = Where didzhu hidjur spoon

These are the standard patterns and deviations will sound non-fluent. I'm sure that British English has its own, different, patterns for these sorts of things. But teaching speech adjustments is a perfectly legitimate part of teaching English for communication. It is important to know, for example, where linking does and doesn't occur.

It is even remotely possible that there is a Russian forum reader who might be interested in learning American English. Stranger things have happened.

Well, guys, although I really prefer British English, I'm interested in knowledge of AmE nuances, too.
And I appreciate very much any help from any natives, British or American, whatever.

As for "gonna", "wanna" - this spelling is very well-known today, I think every learner knows what it is. Even film subtitles contain such spelling quite often. Well, at least fan subs do.

By the way, I have a question about the pronunciation (British or American - I don't know; I thought it was American, but now I'm not sure):
In the film "Die Hard", the heroine calls her children and says "This is your mother" which sounds very much like "This иж your mother". And I'm sure I've heard such "this is" often in some other (American?) films. So, my question is - Is it just American or is it British, too?

Thank you.


And, GOOD PEOPLE PLEASE CORRECT MY MISTAKES!! (or tell me my English is excellent )

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Outside America you add Mate or Bloke to the end of every sentence, depending on hemisphere.

Mite or Blowk ?

"This иж your mother"

You heard it right. I guess wait for Taty or someone who can explain it better (or maybe its just an American thing, 2 years in England and I still havn't picked up very much British English).

When I say it to myself it sounds like "This izhur mother".
I guess its pretty common (at least among Americans) as I can hear myself saying something "izhur car broken?" etc...

I didn't even notice this untill now :P

Originally Posted by vox05

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Outside America you add Mate or Bloke to the end of every sentence, depending on hemisphere.

Mite or Blowk ?

не понял

Я вот удивляюсь... Почему написать длинный пост, опровергающий совет американца по поводу английского языка, не трудно, а вот, зайдя на форум и не увидев постов американцев, с которыми можно было бы спорить, ответить "да" или "нет" на конкретный короткий вопрос по поводу английского - трудно?... Для меня это загадка, правда! Неужели это так сложно? Зачем тогда вообще начинать наезды на тех людей, которые помогают?

Just because American speak like that doesn't mean it's correct. I doubt you'll find a teacher promoting any of these variants.

As for This иж your mother - I say it as из as it should be. But different people have off pronunciations. Older people and people in the South may have a bit of a sh sound in their s. But if someone said a full on иж it would sound odd no matter what.

No, its not Odd. Its the same as "didja/ didzha"

I don't know (unfortunately) the linguistic terminology behind such phenomenons but its normal. When you combine the 'z' sound from 'is' and 'yu' from 'your' it comes out as 'zh'. Say it to yourself, "izhur mother home". It sounds fine. But like I said, I didn't even realize we do this untill olya brought it up.

Oh, and I'm not old and I'm definitely not from the south.

I second dogboy.

I say "izhur" as in "izhur arm hurt?"

If you're in New York and speak one of the northeastern varieties of American English you'll probably sound similar in relaxed speech, perhaps only dropping the "r" as in "izheh."

I don't remember what they call it exactly in linguistics, but it happens naturally in relaxed speech where far-apart phonemes mesh together at some intermediary point for the sake of economy.

Thanks! Guy who's name I can't pronounce )))

Originally Posted by Dogboy182

Thanks! Guy who's name I can't pronounce )))

Pronounced "Chechi Vimyar," it's the name of a polish rapper.