Thread: need punctuation help please

THe phrase is

" This is an alert black female patient, appropriate for stated chronologic age, who was in no acute distress."

Are there any commas needed?

THanks you!

Apart from the ones that are already there, you don't need any other commas.

I wouldn't have put any commas in if I had been writing this sentence - thought it is rather awkward grammatically. I think it is matter of choice not necessity.

I wouldn't have put any commas in if I had been writing this sentence - thought it is rather awkward grammatically. I think it is matter of choice not necessity.

The commas are necessary.

This is an alert black female patient, appropriate for stated chronologic age, who was in no acute distress."

You should always use commas between adjectives = This is an alert, black, female patient etc.. The rest is correct

Originally Posted by Kamion

This is an alert black female patient, appropriate for stated chronologic age, who was in no acute distress."

You should always use commas between adjectives = This is an alert, black, female patient etc.. The rest is correct

Not quite. In this case, "female" is modifying "patient," "black" is modifying "female patient," and "alert" is modifying "black female patient." Commas between the adjectives are unnecessary. "Alert black female patient" is a perfectly acceptable noun phrase.

Originally Posted by ostrov

This is an alert black female patient, appropriate for stated chronologic age, who was in no acute distress.

The punctuation in this sentence is fine. Period. The grammar is a bit sketchy, but the punctuation is fine.

Not quite. In this case, "female" is modifying "patient," "black" is modifying "female patient," and "alert" is modifying "black female patient." Commas between the adjectives are unnecessary. "Alert black female patient" is a perfectly acceptable noun phrase.

Female, black and alert are clearly used as adjectives in this sentence. According to your terrific site "Adjectives are words we use to describe a noun. They usually come before it:

a big, red, boring book"

....

The question was - are commas needed. The answer is - they are not needed. The sentence makes sense and is acceptable without them. It may make better sense with them in but that does not mean they have to be there.

Originally Posted by Kamion

Not quite. In this case, "female" is modifying "patient," "black" is modifying "female patient," and "alert" is modifying "black female patient." Commas between the adjectives are unnecessary. "Alert black female patient" is a perfectly acceptable noun phrase.

Female, black and alert are clearly used as adjectives in this sentence. According to your terrific site "Adjectives are words we use to describe a noun. They usually come before it:

a big, red, boring book"

....

Read a good book about English if you don't understand Lindsay. It's hard to explain, but she is right.

People, why are you arguing with the professional proofreader? I do this for a living.

Originally Posted by Kamion

Not quite. In this case, "female" is modifying "patient," "black" is modifying "female patient," and "alert" is modifying "black female patient." Commas between the adjectives are unnecessary. "Alert black female patient" is a perfectly acceptable noun phrase.

Female, black and alert are clearly used as adjectives in this sentence. According to your terrific site "Adjectives are words we use to describe a noun. They usually come before it:

a big, red, boring book"

....

"a big, red, boring book" is an entirely different case than "alert black female patient." Here's an alternative, and possibly clearer, explaination than the one I gave above:

It would be folly, of course, to run more than two or three (at the most) adjectives together. Furthermore, when adjectives belong to the same class, they become what we call coordinated adjectives, and you will want to put a comma between them: the inexpensive, comfortable shoes. The rule for inserting the comma works this way: if you could have inserted a conjunction — and or but — between the two adjectives, use a comma. We could say these are "inexpensive but comfortable shoes," so we would use a comma between them (when the "but" isn't there). When you have three coordinated adjectives, separate them all with commas, but don't insert a comma between the last adjective and the noun (in spite of the temptation to do so because you often pause there)

Can we say, "the alert but black patient"? "The black but female patient"? "The alert but female patient"? No. Then, we cannot put commas betwen the items. "Alert black female patient" is correctly punctuated, as it has no punctuation.

Originally Posted by BJ

The question was - are commas needed. The answer is - they are not needed. The sentence makes sense and is acceptable without them. It may make better sense with them in but that does not mean they have to be there.

They do have to be there.

This is an alert black female patient, appropriate for stated chronologic age, who was in no acute distress.

The first comma is absolutely necessary, unless there was a second alert black female present who was not of appropriate stated chronological age, and the appositive "appropriate for stated chronologic age" was included in the sentence by the speaker/writer in order to clarify which female s/he was discussing. Somehow, I doubt this.

Use a comma to set off parenthetical elements, as in "The Founders Bridge, which spans the Connecticut River, is falling down." By "parenthetical element," we mean a part of a sentence that can be removed without changing the essential meaning of that sentence. The parenthetical element is sometimes called "added information."

The second comma is necessary to close the appositive. But even if the first comma were not there, the second comma would still]be desired according to most sets of punctuation rules.


ALL COMMAS IN OSTROV'S VERSION OF THE SENTENCE ARE NECESSARY. NO MORE COMMAS ARE REQUIRED.

Originally Posted by Oddo

Read a good book about English if you don't understand Lindsay. It's hard to explain, but she is right.

Thanks, Oddo

I would add that even these two commas wouldn't have been necessary if the phrase was given in one tense. And I agree that it is gramatically not correct, since present and past are used together - that is the main reason I would separate them with commas.

Thanks, you are very helpful, and the site is great!

No problem, Ostrov. Bless you for your punctuation discernment.

Originally Posted by Линдзи

People, why are you arguing with the professional proofreader? I do this for a living.

WOW - I always want to run the other way when I see that word 'professional' something or other And, in consequence, I was rather hoping that you would be wrong Линдзи. But, it is clear, you are absolutely right Even the UK's own Lynne Truss of 'Eats Shoots & Leaves' fame agrees - so thanks, I learnt something there < I hate these icons, but I just can't resist using 'em!

"This is an alert black female patient, appropriate for stated chronologic age, who was in no acute distress."

btw - Let's suppose this was a dramatic piece, and that the audience might be expecting the patient to be unconscious, white, and male. Could the commas be used in order to add emphasis: to apply grammatical brakes to the flow of the piece What I'm trying to say is, in the fight between grammar and style, who (could be 'which' - who knows) wins???

People, why are you arguing with the professional proofreader? I do this for a living.

Because we want to learn something... I didn

[quote=Kamion]

People, why are you arguing with the professional proofreader? I do this for a living.

Because we want to learn something... I didn

[quote]Kamion wrote:
Quote:
People, why are you arguing with the professional proofreader? I do this for a living.

Because we want to learn something... I didn

Heeeellllpppppppppp - this thread is running away with my question .....

Originally Posted by майк

Let's suppose this was a dramatic piece, and that the audience might be expecting the patient to be unconscious, white, and male. Could the commas be used in order to add emphasis: to apply grammatical brakes to the flow of the piece What I'm trying to say is, in the fight between grammar and style, who (could be 'which' - who knows) wins???

@Линдзи - Don't leave me now - I need to know, or at least, get an opinion