Natives disagree

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September 24th, 2007, 10:15 AM
doninphxaz

Natives disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matryoshka

LOL :D lots of russian as if i would understand it all :D come on!!! :roll: even the native speakers cannot agree on the same thing? :o

Sometimes I'm amazed at the differences in English as well. Around New York City people often say, "I stood on line for two hours for tickets." The first time I heard that, I thought the speaker was an uneducated pinhead. It just sounds wrong. But it's normal for them. Most of the rest of the country says, "I stood in line."

And the British versus American differences suprise me. In response to "Have you cleaned your room yet?" a British child might respond, "Yes, I have done." But an American would never say that. An American would say, "Yes, I have." I remember the first time I heard a Brit say, "Yes, I have done." It sounded so very odd.
September 24th, 2007, 10:40 AM
Ramil

I saw people from all parts of the English speaking world agrue here about what they thought right regarding pronounciation and spelling.
Being a non-native speaker I understood one thing - there's no such thing as perfect English. It's different in every part of the world so different rules apply to the term 'perfect' :) That doesn't make learning easier and gives me a lot of headache.
September 24th, 2007, 12:30 PM
Ezri

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ramil

Being a non-native speaker I understood one thing - there's no such thing as perfect English. It's different in every part of the world so different rules apply to the term 'perfect' :) That doesn't make learning easier and gives me a lot of headache.

That I can understand but as a writer I'm glad of the many loopholes I have to get away with so called 'bad' english.
There are english purists out there who try and hang on to the modern origional language. But I dont see the point, all languages evolve and certanly english has evolved beyone recognition from over a couple of centuries. And thats just the individual words, let alone the diverse accents.
September 24th, 2007, 01:34 PM
Ramil

I think that as many non-native english speakers join the global community (everyone who has to speak or write or read English) English loses some of its finer points and turns into something synthetic. Russia speaks English, China speaks English, India, Middle East, Far East, South-East Asia, Europe and both Americas - English became truly an international language. I think its grammar will simplify further as years pass and most of its sharp and fine edges will be lost.
September 24th, 2007, 01:54 PM
Xkalibur

Re: Natives disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by doninphxaz

Sometimes I'm amazed at the differences in English as well. Around New York City people often say, "I stood on line for two hours for tickets." The first time I heard that, I thought the speaker was an uneducated pinhead. It just sounds wrong. But it's normal for them. Most of the rest of the country says, "I stood in line."

So, which of the prepositions you consider as a correct one? (You haven't specified that in your post :roll:) . As for me, I would use 'at' . Is it correct?
September 24th, 2007, 03:18 PM
Rtyom

Ahem... at, you say?.. :? Explain yourself!
September 24th, 2007, 03:21 PM
Оля

Re: Natives disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by doninphxaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matryoshka

LOL :D lots of russian as if i would understand it all :D come on!!! :roll: even the native speakers cannot agree on the same thing? :o

Просто некоторые "нэтивы" рассматривают предложение с точки зрения только грамматики (нет ли в нем грамматических ошибок), а другие - с точки зрения того, насколько по-русски оно звучит.
Очень часто предложение, не содержащее грамматических ошибок, может звучать неестественно.

Я уже молчу про "нэтивов", которые забыли русский язык много лет назад.
September 24th, 2007, 03:28 PM
Rtyom

Re: Natives disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Оля

Я уже молчу про "нэтивов", которые забыли русский язык много лет назад.

:idea: :lol:
September 24th, 2007, 05:07 PM
Xkalibur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Ahem... at, you say?.. :? Explain yourself!

I stood on line for two hours for tickets.

Если это предложение переводиться как: Я стоял на линии два часа за билетами.

И если 'on' в этом случае это 'на'. То рискну предположить что, он хочеть сказать, что "стоять на линии" в данном контексте не верно. Поэтому, я предлагаю at ("стоять у линии"). Но, что за конкретную линию он имеет ввиду я так и не понял.

Это предложение типа: I stood at the bus stop.

Может быть я ошибаюсь, и всё написанное на верху чушь.
September 24th, 2007, 05:45 PM
Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xkalibur

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Ahem... at, you say?.. :? Explain yourself!

I stood on line for two hours for tickets.

Если это предложение переводится как: Я стоял на линии два часа за билетами.

И если 'on' в этом случае это 'на'. То рискну предположить что, он хочеть сказать, что "стоять на линии" в данном контексте не верно. Поэтому, я предлагаю at ("стоять у линии"). Но, что за конкретную линию он имеет в_ виду я так и не понял.

Это предложение типа: I stood at the bus stop.

Может быть я ошибаюсь, и всё написанное наверху чушь.

Ну почему бы не стоять «на» линии? Только артикль добавить.
September 24th, 2007, 05:49 PM
Оля

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xkalibur

Но_ что за конкретную линию он имеет в_ виду, я так и не понял.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xkalibur

То рискну предположить что, он хочет_ сказать, что "стоять на линии" в данном контексте неверно.

Может быть, я ошибаюсь, и всё написанное выше - чушь.
September 24th, 2007, 07:26 PM
Полуношник

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xkalibur

Но, что за конкретную линию он имеет ввиду я так и не понял.

В очереди он стоял.
September 24th, 2007, 08:09 PM
Zaya

Quote:

English loses some of its finer points and turns into something synthetic.

Some people believe it turns into 'something isolating.'
Just a joke. I see what you mean. :wink:
September 24th, 2007, 08:35 PM
Rtyom

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zaya

Quote:

English loses some of its finer points and turns into something synthetic.

Some people believe it turns into 'something isolating.'
Just a joke. I see what you mean. :wink:

I see you know some linguistics. :) :thumbs:
September 25th, 2007, 02:59 AM
DDT

Quote:

Originally Posted by Полуношник

-.-. --- .-. .-. . -.-. - -- -.-- -- .. ... - .- -.- . ...

I just noticed what you have written here in morse....very clever!
September 25th, 2007, 08:44 AM
doninphxaz

Re: Natives disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xkalibur

So, which of the prepositions you consider as a correct one? (You haven't specified that in your post :roll:) . As for me, I would use 'at' . Is it correct?

For the meaning «Я стоял в очереди» only the "I stood in line" version sounds correct to me. That's true for most of the US.

I don't think anyone would say "I stood at line."
September 25th, 2007, 04:35 PM
Matroskin Kot

Re: Natives disagree

Quote:

Originally Posted by doninphxaz

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xkalibur

So, which of the prepositions you consider as a correct one? (You haven't specified that in your post :roll:) . As for me, I would use 'at' . Is it correct?

For the meaning «Я стоял в очереди» only the "I stood in line" version sounds correct to me. That's true for most of the US.

I don't think anyone would say "I stood at line."

I agree. I never hear "stood at line". Always either "in line" or "on line". In America, at least, "on line" sounds especially strange because of the Internet making the phrase "on line" relate most often to computers. It makes me wonder what a native Brit would say about that. I'll ask... hang on.

OK, I couldn't get ahold of my English friend, but I found this: "On line" is apparently a regionalism; The New York Times Manual of Style and Usage declares: "Few besides New Yorkers speak of standing on line. Follow the usage of the rest of the English-speaking world: in line." The "on" version may be spreading, but "in" is still the unassailable choice.