Thread: if...will

Could someone please explain me the difference:

1) Open a window if it will help you to sleep.
2) Open a window if it helps you to sleep.

No difference. Just the joy of English. It is a very wordy language.

Originally Posted by alexei

Could someone please explain me the difference:

1) Open a window if it will help you to sleep.
2) Open a window if it helps you to sleep.

I think the shade of meaning is like this:

1. Открой окно, если это поможет тебе уснуть.

vs.

2. Открой окно, если это помогает тебе засыпать. (если тебе так легче спать)

Yes, as MA pointed out, there is a small difference in meaning, but it's nothing to lose sleep about. In the first one, it is not clear if opening windows will actually help the person to sleep, in the second one, it is assumed that opening windows is a habit of the person.

What about "Buy me a bottle of vodka, if you go shopping"?
Купи мне водки если ты ходишь по магазинам?

It means "If you do go out shopping, then buy me some vodka. But you are not obligated to go out shopping just for that purpose."

I have to correct myself now. My first post was not quiet correct (after all, I'm not a native English speaker). There is a rule that you cannot use the Future Tense in the conditional (if-clause) because it didn't happen yet and you don't know whether it happens at all. And when you use the Present Tense in the conditinal then it conveys the Future Tense meaning.

1) Open a window if it will help you to sleep. INCORRECT
2) Open a window if it helps you to sleep. ... если это поможет тебе уснуть
3) Buy me a bottle of vodka, if you go shopping. ... если ты пойдёшь в магазин

For more discussion on the same, please read this http://www.englishforums.com/ShowPost.aspx?PostID=44607

I didn't even know there was such a rule. Damn, my English sucks. Хотя даже МГИМО финишт...

Pravit, I see that English is your second language, too But you know the rule now.

Originally Posted by MasterAdmin

1) Open a window if it will help you to sleep. INCORRECT

Tell it to Martin Hewings, the author of Advanced grammar in use (CUP) :)
It says it could be said that way but nothing about the difference.

Looks like it is a controversial question and I cannot provide you with any more details on that. Did you check my link? It mentions about exceptions.

"Nevertheless, if one simply says, e. g., " never put 'will' after 'if' ", such a rule really doesn't work: because "if" may introduce an indirect question (= "whether"), as you noticed yourself; and because of such common phrases as "if you will pardon me".

If Martin Hewings says it's OK to say like this than I am no better in English than he is. Then you just can say it either way and the meaning is the same.

I'm a native englophone and that rule seems to be pretty much ignored. I never knew about it and I've never been corrected for saying "Open a window if it will help you sleep". "Open a window if it helps you sleep" does seem to roll off the tounge with more fluency though.

It is much safer for a non-native speaker of English who is learning the language to stick with the rule, albeit there are exceptions.
"If you will" .... or "If you would" .... characterize a formal request. Again, you don't need to actually *use* this construction.
Darobat, you are an anglophone.

The exceptions are interesting, though, I agree

Bah, petty spelling mistakes.

Originally Posted by MasterAdmin

Looks like it is a controversial question and I cannot provide you with any more details on that. Did you check my link? It mentions about exceptions.

"Nevertheless, if one simply says, e. g., " never put 'will' after 'if' ", such a rule really doesn't work: because "if" may introduce an indirect question (= "whether"), as you noticed yourself; and because of such common phrases as "if you will pardon me".

It's not this case. The book says:

We don't usually use "if...will" in conditional sentences. However, we can use "if...will" when we talk about a result of something in the main clause.

If Martin Hewings says it's OK to say like this than I am no better in English than he is. Then you just can say it either way 8) and the meaning is the same.

I'd like to know the difference first :)

Originally Posted by waxwing

It is much safer for a non-native speaker of English who is learning the language to stick with the rule, albeit there are exceptions.

But I want to know the difference, why don't just tell me?

Because I don't understand it clearly myself.

But now you mention it, the rule I am talking about only applies to conditional sentences. Good point! I had forgotten about constructions like this:

I want to know if you'll be home in time for dinner.

Of course there's no problem there.

It's clear that the difference is in the usage of Tenses. And it looks like you can say either of this sentences to convey the same idea. In this regard there is no difference.

Originally Posted by alexei

Could someone please explain me the difference:

1) Open a window if it will help you to sleep.
2) Open a window if it helps you to sleep.

1) Open a window if it will help you to sleep.
You would say this to someone who cannot sleep now or in the near future. This is for a one time event.

2) Open a window if it helps you to sleep.
You would say this to someone who continuously cannot sleep. Every night they cannot sleep.

The difference in meaning is so minor, that if you mix them up, nobody would care anyway.

I see how this could be a little confusing... if you take the sentect super-literaly it doesnt make much sense ...

( if it will help you to sleep)=
[after it does end up helping you to sleep(in the present tense it has yet to do this), (now talking about the future)open a window]

basicly the sentence is saying that you would open it after it helps you sleep, which doesnt make sense because the window has yet to be opened, so how could it have helped you

this obviously isnt the meaning of the sentence we use

to explain it to a russian i would say ( if it the case that should you open the window it will help you to sleep, then do so)

Or maybe ive just confused him more

Originally Posted by Halofreak

to explain it to a russian i would say ( if it the case that should you open the window it will help you to sleep, then do so)

Sorry, I didn't get it.

Just yesterday I read a John Grisham book (I don't think he's uneducated or something) and came across this:

- How much does he know? If you'll tell me, I'll be in a better position to help him.

What made him to write it that way? What did he want to emphasize?