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English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
There are a number of pet peeves out there and I am amazed to find how few of them are used on this forum. However, it might be useful to some to start a thread about the more common peeves so people are aware of them. These pet peeves can be verbal or written and anyone is welcome to post their own personal ones.
If someone on the Russian side is willing to, maybe the Russian version of this thread could be started as well. There has to be a number of common errors people make when speaking or writing in Russian which just annoy you to death!
If you are not familiar with the term "pet peeve" it is ... Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki [url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_peeve
Pet peeve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia[/url]] a minor annoyance that an individual identifies as particularly annoying to them, to a greater degree than others may find it. Examples may be poor table manners, sloppy kitchen hygiene, smoking, grammatical errors in written passages, inconsiderate driving or lazy co-workers, and loud gum smacking.
This article is VERY long however it covers a number of English words which are used incorrectly.
My mother's biggest pet peeve is a verbal one. When she is on the phone and is then placed on hold and the person comes back on the line an says, "What was your name again?" Her name did not change while she was on hold. It is still the same as when she gave it to the person before she was placed on hold. My mom will respond, "My name was and still is...." This always confuses the poor person.
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Re: English Pet Peeves
When people use "ax" instead of "ask".
Scott
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Re: English Pet Peeves
There are lots... :)
The inability to tell they're, there and their apart.
Writing 'standart' when they mean 'standard'.
Using 'I could care less' instead of 'I couldn't care less'.
As for errors I frequently notice when native speakers of Russian use English, there's two:
Saying 'we went to the cinema with Linda' when the 'we' in English actually should be 'I'. There were no other people apart from Linda and the speaker. Before I learned that it was the proper way to express it in Russian, I frequently wondered who else had been with them but did not get mentioned when native speakers of Russian said something to that effect.
For the other I hope CoffeeCup will forgive me for quoting his / her post:
Quote:
Here is one specific to Russia point to add.
Russian permits putting all kinds of things in an attributive position, just as if the phrase 'specific to Russia' in this example were a simple adjective. I have noticed this frequently when reading Russian, and it tends to bleed over into English and German, where you cannot do that. It should be 'here is one point to add which is specific to Russian'.
Robin
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Further vs. Farther:
This is one that I am guilty of! My mom caught me the other day using the wrong one :oops:
Use farther to talk about physical distance and further to talk about metaphorical, or figurative distance.
Further is used as in furthermore or additional. Some people only use "furthermore" when they mean "in addition" instead of simply "further" and this helps them to remember the rule. “I'm tired, and furthermore, we are out of chocolate."
You can also remember the difference by remembering that farther has the word "far" in it and refers to something "far" away. "The farther away from the storm the quieter the lightning/thunder."
I found an online quiz for those of you who would like practice.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
Use farther to talk about physical distance and further to talk about metaphorical, or figurative distance.
I took these from a dictionary:
They walked a little further.
His farm is located further away from Riobamba than his brother’s.
They’ve never been further south than San Diego.
They are definitely wrong, then?
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Can vs. Will or May AND Could vs. Would
This one caught my eye this morning with a posting "can you correct my mistakes?" and my first thought was of course "sure I CAN correct them but do you really want me to and Will I?" Those are different questions. Especially as ya'll know I have NO skills in Russian :D
But seriously, can and will and could and would are two different things.... Yet how many times have we all said, "Can you sent me an email?" or "Can I call you later?" We are all guilty of this one at one time or another!
Can and could simply bringing into question the person's ability to do what you are asking.
Will, may and would, bring into question the intention to actually do the task.
Funny Examples:
Statement: "You can't do this."
The answer: "I must be able to, because I did."
Question: "Can I go to the bathroom?"
The answer: "Well, I certainly hope so!"
Question: "Can I ask you a question?"
The answer: "It seems you can." OR "You just did."
Question: "Can you marry me?"
The answer: By now, you can supply a good comeback for this one by now...hehehe
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Re: English Pet Peeves
Quote:
Originally Posted by fortheether
When people use "ax" instead of "ask".
Scott
must agree and often correct my children. They look at me funny. But mom that IS what I said. No honey you ax wood. not a question. LOL
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
I loath when a person say irregardless. there is no ir about it. it is regardless. PERIOD. UGH!
What is also amazing to me ... is that dictionaries are now putting "made" up words into it. Thus they become "real" somehow regardless of proper usage.
Also another big thing here in the states is Ebonics. Really? I do understand culture, but come on!!!!
There is a proper way to speak when in the company of others, that are NOT close family and friends. Especially in business.
I will admit my speaking and writing is no where near perfect. However, I would like to be corrected. I do not wish to be a mindless idiot.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
All words began their life as made-up words at some time or other. What should be wrong with that?
There is a proper way to speak in every kind of society, but while you shouldn't use very colloquial language when doing business, likewise you wouldn't use business language when dealing with friends and family. There's a place for every kind of language, as long as there are others who share the same language.
Robin
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Re: English Pet Peeves
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpicker
It should be 'here is one point to add which is specific to Russian'.
I believe CoffeeCup meant "Russia" (what he wrote), not "Russian". I liked Johanna's correction: "Here is one Russia-specific point to add". Is it not okay?
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by E-learner
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
Use farther to talk about physical distance and further to talk about metaphorical, or figurative distance.
I took these from a dictionary:
They walked a little further.
His farm is located further away from Riobamba than his brother’s.
They’ve never been further south than San Diego.
They are definitely wrong, then?
Absolutely. Well, at least I'm pretty sure. I would use farther instead of further on all three instances.
HOWEVER... while researching your question I did stumble upon an interesting paper some college student did about these two words and lie/lay. It appears that farther/further thing might be an American English thing and that "farther" is no longer used that much outside of the U.S. at all!
Quote:
Originally Posted by [url
http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/course/76-451/watts.html[/url]]Though it is possible to argue, primarily based on much higher frequency, that farther still serves a distinct purpose in American English, the argument is much harder for the United Kingdom and Australia. Farther is so rare that it clearly cannot be serving an important distinct purpose. Farther is less specialized in these regions, seeming to serve only as a limited alternative to further. In American English, the limited specialization of farther creates the impression of a distinct word, but further can always be used. Not one case of a noun following farther exists in the American corpora, but almost every case of farther can be matched with at least one nearly identical instance using further.
Here is another tricky example I found:
“I'm further along in my book than you are in yours.” You could think of it as a physical distance through the pages and use farther, or as a figurative distance through the story and use further.
Bitpicker... you seem to be the expert on etymology... have anything to add to this one???
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldeyez
I loath when a person say irregardless. there is no ir about it. it is regardless. PERIOD. UGH!
You are most correct with this one! Even very educated people will say irregardless and it surprises me everytime I hear it!
Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldeyez
Also another big thing here in the states is Ebonics. Really? I do understand culture, but come on!!!!
This one is interesting as well. It used to be that if you spoke like you were from the ghetto, the projects, wrong side of the tracks or some sort of term like that, it was a bad thing and one strived to correct this and improve. Then all of the sudden it was "poof" it's Ebonics and it is perfectly acceptable to not speak anywhere close to proper English.
Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldeyez
I will admit my speaking and writing is no where near perfect. However, I would like to be corrected. I do not wish to be a mindless idiot.
Well...umm... I think my name tops the "no where near perfect" list here for native speakers! :D
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
I never was able to understand how could native speakers of English write "then" instead of "than" and vice versa. Why do you do that? Do they sound identical?
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
Quote:
Originally Posted by emeraldeyez
I loath when a person say irregardless. there is no ir about it. it is regardless. PERIOD. UGH!
My father used to say this despite my parents being strict grammar police (ain't is not a word, etc.)
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
I never was able to understand how could native speakers of English write "then" instead of "than" and vice versa. Why do you do that? Do they sound identical?
I've never seen this. Perhaps a typo, either that or EXTREMRE ignorance bordering on illiteracy.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
English Pet Peeves
This expression will make no sense to a lot of people. With the exception of one or two people, only native speakers on the forum will know the word "peeve" - it is definitely extracurricular. Add the word "pet" in front and I think we've lost everybody but native speakers...
I have noticed that some of us English speakers use expressions which are too advanced for the English level of most people on the forum. I'm trying to avoid the "native-specific" expressions that I know make no sense to anybody but the initiated. At work I have to be very careful with this because I work with Indian people who just ignore what they don't understand (i.e. everything that is not in plain, clear English. Plus it alienates others too, like French colleagues etc.)
We already know that Olya's written English is first class; another really person whose English is superb is Translationsnmru. I'm sure I forgot somebody but practically never see any mistakes by either of these two.
Bitpicker is one of those people whose English is better than that of most native speakers (grammar, vocab etc).. This drives Brits crazy, particularly if the speaker is German! Haha beat them at their own language!
Anyway, I agree with emeraldz; "IRREGARDLESS" is a really ghastly "word"! There should be a fine on people who say that!!
Whose and whom etc etc can be really tricky (I'm often not completely sure about this) It's a very common mistake although you can often avoid the risk by writing the the sentence in a different way. In spoken English it's not used a lot.
There are lots of speech patterns in British(?) English that I really don't like and which make no sense or are grammatically incorrect. The only one I can think of right now is "He was sat at the bar". This sounds really bad to me. I'm sure it ought to be "He sat" or "He was sitting".
Something I like about American English is that it's quite straightforward - Some of the clever wordplaying and games of understatement that Brits can never resist are replaced by plain to-the-point sentences which an be really refreshing. In British English texts are full of words which take the edge off the message such as "quite" or "rather" to the point where you are not quite sure what the speakers' actual opinion is. American English doesn't use this so much and I like that.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
I never was able to understand how could native speakers of English write "then" instead of "than" and vice versa. Why do you do that? Do they sound identical?
I've never seen this. Perhaps a typo, either that or EXTREMRE ignorance bordering on illiteracy.
Oh... this is VERY common and I, ummm, sperk... ummm.... I have a hard time with this one!!! :sorry:
I am not certain if it is because I was never taught as a child that there was a difference or if in my poor mixed up brain either word sounds fine to me when I say the sentence.
However, to answer your question, Olya, when I say either then or than both of them sound natural to me and correct. It is not as if I cringe when I hear it and go, "Oh no, I am using the wrong word here." Sort of like effect and affect. I have to think about those two as well.
And sperk..just so ya know it is not just me...
Quote:
Originally Posted by [url
http://www.wikihow.com/Use-Than-and-Then[/url]]Many times people misuse the words "than" and "then." Whether it's because the words are pronounced similarly in some areas or because people simply don't know the difference between them, it is important to know in which situations to choose each word. Follow this guide below, and then you'll be using these words better than anyone you know!
Quote:
Originally Posted by [url
http://hubpages.com/hub/Grammar_Mishaps__Then_vs_Than[/url]] A common mistake
Then and than are often confused in the English language. I'll give you a basic breakdown of the two terms, when to use them and a few examples
Quote:
Originally Posted by [url
http://www.petpeeveoftheday.com/2009/05/then-vs-than.html[/url]] May 14, 2009, "Then" vs. "Than"
You know what pisses me off? – The incorrect usage of “then” and “than.” Maybe I should declare a day of the week as “Grammar PPOTD” because the grammar peeves just keep coming! But as usual, I’m here to help those confused souls who don’t know the difference in how to use “then” and “than.”
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
Quote:
English Pet Peeves
This expression will make no sense to a lot of people. With the exception of one or two people, only native speakers on the forum will know the word "peeve" - it's definitely extracurricular. Add the word "pet" in front and I think you've lost everybody but native speakers... I think we must explain at the top of the thread what it is about.
Johanna... this is at the very top of the thread in the first posting... please let me know what is not clear about it or how it should be clearer...thanks! Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
If you are not familiar with the term "pet peeve" it is ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiki [url="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_peeve"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pet_peeve[/url]] a minor annoyance that an individual identifies as particularly annoying to them, to a greater degree than others may find it. Examples may be poor table manners, sloppy kitchen hygiene, smoking, grammatical errors in written passages, inconsiderate driving or lazy co-workers, and loud gum smacking.
Also, the title of the thread was changed from just "pet peeves" to "pet peeves and common mistakes" in an effort to help clarify.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
I have noticed that some of us English speakers use expressions which are too advanced for the English level of most people on the forum.
Personally, I like that. To read bland, plain English is no fun. And for many it's no fun to write either.
Quote:
Some of the clever wordplaying and games of understatement that Brits can never resist
That's what I rather like.
Quote:
In British English texts are fully of words which take the edge off the message such as "quite" or "rather"
I love these words and I have to resist an urge to put them in almost every sentence. :)
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
Here is another tricky example I found:
“I'm further along in my book than you are in yours.” You could think of it as a physical distance through the pages and use farther, or as a figurative distance through the story and use further.
Yes. That was why I omitted this one from dictionary examples:
"His hands moved further down her back." :roll:
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Rockzmom - sorry I'm just too scatterbrained! It totally slipped my mind by the time I got to the bottom of the thread! (Scatterbrained = Not very focussed, a bit sloppy, too easily distracted)
And yes, "focussed" has double-s! Oh the joys of English spelling.
Quote:
Personally, I like that. To read bland, plain English is no fun. And for many it's no fun to write either.
Well, E-learner if that's what you like you shall have it.... We aim to please!
(=this is an English saying, hard to explain what it means exactly but it's appropriate in this context).
I guess my view is based on the fact that I am forever struggling with language confusion at work and like to keep things simple.... The fact that English is the "world lingua franca" also means that you can not always use it in the most artistic or poetic way... I find that most of the time it's is more useful to stick with very basic language. That way nobody can blame failures on communication problems.
Quote:
English person speaking to Indian person at work:
"Gurvinder, if you've got a minute do you think you might be able to have a look at the logs for that server that maxes out during the weekends. I think we need to try to get to the bottom of that... Would you be able to let me know by next Monday please? "
Next Monday:
"Gurvinder I'm afraid we have a problem. All hell has broken lose here because that server is still acting up. I am SURE I explicitly asked you to fix the problem with that server no later than Monday! It's Friday and I haven't heard a word from you!"
"Well I didn't understand what you meant... "
----------------------------------
(based on a real story... no, based on 50 similar stories.. Oh the joys of globalisation... )
:ROFL: :o :wall: :no:
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
Oh... this is VERY common and I, ummm, sperk... ummm.... I have a hard time with this one!!! :sorry:
Really? I'd like to see some examples in print of their misusage, rather than some googled thing saying it's common.
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Re: English Pet Peeves
Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpicker
It should be 'here is one point to add which is specific to Russian'.
I believe CoffeeCup meant "Russia" (what he wrote), not "Russian". I liked Johanna's correction: "
Here is one Russia-specific point to add". Is it not okay?
I would say that's ok. Sorry for the mistake about Russia / Russian.
Actually just a couple of hours after writing that comment I came across another example in the book I am reading. It covers both phenomena within six words:
Это была наша с Сержем музыка.
Literally translated: It was our with Sergej music.
Robin
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
Bitpicker... you seem to be the expert on etymology... have anything to add to this one???
Not as such, no. I personally find the three example sentences with 'further', which E-learner quoted, completely acceptable, though I would still say 'Los Angeles is farther away from Boston than New York is'. In this case 'further' seems incorrect to me. In a similar fashion I find 'further' in your book example quite questionable.
Robin
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
I never was able to understand how could native speakers of English write "then" instead of "than" and vice versa. Why do you do that? Do they sound identical?
I've never seen this. Perhaps a typo, either that or EXTREMRE ignorance bordering on illiteracy.
I've seen that quite often, even from people who are anything but illiterate. In fact I came across it yesterday and would have added it here now as something to watch out for.
Robin
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
Bitpicker is one of those people whose English is better than that of most native speakers (grammar, vocab etc).. This drives Brits crazy, particularly if the speaker is German! Haha beat them at their own language!
Thanks... :oops:
Quote:
In British English texts are full of words which take the edge off the message such as "quite" or "rather" to the point where you are not quite sure what the speakers' actual opinion is.
I do that, too, I just love British understatement! Then again, I learned most of my English from Monty Python, so it's no big surprise.
Robin
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
I never was able to understand how could native speakers of English write "then" instead of "than" and vice versa. Why do you do that? Do they sound identical?
I've never seen this. Perhaps a typo, either that or EXTREMRE ignorance bordering on illiteracy.
I've seen that quite often, even from people who are anything but illiterate. In fact I came across it yesterday and would have added it here now as something to watch out for.
Robin
No this is common.
It's / Its' and lots of variations on this is another common mistake.
You should see some of the emails I get from native speakers at work. It's shocking, PARTICULARLY in light of the fact that many of the offenders actually have university degrees.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
You should see some of the emails I get from native speakers at work. It's shocking, PARTICULARLY in light of the fact that many of the offenders actually have university degrees.
You are making me feel sooooooo much better!
Okay, so I have an idea! When anyone gets one of those emails with the mistakes as Johanna was mentioning, you should post them here (or if you like on another thread just for those emails). Maybe you can post the email without making corrections and see if "we" can spot the errors? Then if people have questions about why there was an error, it can be discussed. I think it would be helpful to all of us! :good: Of course, you can remove the sender's name to protect the innocent!
Hey, team Russia... what about the same thread from your side to help all the folks who do want to learn Russian??? Are there not common mistakes like we have in English? Do you get emails with mistakes from either native or non-natives and just shake your head when you read them?
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpicker
Quote:
Originally Posted by sperk
Quote:
Originally Posted by Оля
I never was able to understand how could native speakers of English write "then" instead of "than" and vice versa. Why do you do that? Do they sound identical?
I've never seen this. Perhaps a typo, either that or EXTREMRE ignorance bordering on illiteracy.
I've seen that quite often, even from people who are anything but illiterate. In fact I came across it yesterday and would have added it here now as something to watch out for.
Robin
So here is an example. I was just writing to someone. "I think I could drive to your house faster than it takes me." So, for me, than or then sounds perfectly natural in this sentence. I have to actually THINK about which word to use or make a quess or check in Word. With other words, like their, there, they're.. (which should be harder because they actually sound exactly the same) I instinctively know which one is correct, yet these two.. stump me. :wall:
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Is it a comparison? Than.
Is it a sequence? Then.
Robin
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
I was just writing to someone. "I think I could drive to your house faster than it takes me." So, for me, than or then sounds perfectly natural in this sentence.
I think the reason it happens is because "than" in normal, casual speech often doesn't have stress on it, and most people pronounce th unstressed "than" as "n" (faster'n me) or as "thən" with a schwa instead of a clear "e" or "a". So some people may spell the word as "then" rather then "than", because pronunciation is not clear enough. But I guess that the reverse error is much less likely. For example, in "Then, and only then you will be able to... <blah-blah-blah>", "then" would be normally pronounced quite clearly, so most native speakers will have no problem spelling it correctly.
That's just another theory of mine :).
P.S. Just checked a few dictionaries and was very surprised to find out that some of American dictionaries (i.e. the Random House and Marriam-Webster's Dictionaries) actually list "then" as a variant pronunciation of "than". None of my British dictionaries, however, agree with that.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
The reason this kind of stuff is easier for perhaps Btpicker, Translationsnmru and myself is that we have consciously learnt it. Every piece of grammar and every word I use when I write in English is something I have consciously learnt at some point.
I was nine I think when I started studying English. Young enough to learn fast but old enough to still remember the difficulties and the actual studying.
When I noticed that my spoken and written English was in fact better than that of a lot of native speakers I totally stopped any efforts at improving it. It's just a tool. Before that I had been quite worried about the quality of my English.
A great thing about English speakers across the world is that they are VERY tolerant to foreign (non-native) speakers. This is a very nice thing and it means a lot for people who have to struggle to learn English whether they like to or not. (compulsory subject, necessary for career and university studies)
The problems between native and non-native English speakers are more of a cultural nature.
For example when we have phone conferences, the English people want to start off with chit-chat about the weather and trivia while the German colleages prefer to get straight to the point.. The French and Italian colleages are more prone to get irritated or angry when faced with problems... All of this is very "rude" in the eyes of the English. Those kinds of cultural differences are what create the most problems for us, much more than the languages itself.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
BTW, Johanna... it is funny (as in interesting) that you use the word learnt and not learned. We had that in a thread a while back. Here in the States we don't use learnt and the only time I had heard that prevously was in Jane Austen's Pride and Prejudice.
Quote:
"If I have wounded your sister's feelings, it was unknowingly done; and though the motives which governed me may to you very natuarlly appear insufficient, I have not yet learnt to condemn them." - Chapter 43
Quote:
also remember from the movie, yet not the book the line…
"If I had ever learnt, I should've been a great proficient."
So everytime I see you use it, I get a small grin on my face and imagine you as this proper English lady back in the day! :wink:
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Wow, I didn't know anything about "learned" vs "learnt"! :unknown:
I had no idea it made me sound old fashioned... I'd like to read the thread about it, do you remember where it was?
So it's a British vs American thing then, or what do you think? Is there any native English speaker who is British and could comment on this?
Using "learned" in that sentence sounds wrong to me... :) But really, now I feel very unsure. I have no idea why I bent it that way I guess I was not completely correct when I said that I know the reasons behind all the grammar that I use!! Pride cometh before fall (I'm getting carried away now with the "advanced english" - that's a commonly used quote from the Bible)
I can only imagine that it was taught that way in school or that I picked it up after moving to the UK. I'd really like to here what a Brit, Australian or South African would say it.
There is some kind of practice of "Speech competitions" in the US which means that many people can deliver very clear, inspirational and eloquent speeches in a style that I really like. I've come across Americans with such skills several times. In Britain you rarely hear anything like that. One of the ministers in my local church is American and he one of the best speakers I've ever heard. If he was a politician he'd clean the floor of the competition.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
Wow, I didn't know anything about "learned" vs "learnt"! :unknown:
I had no idea it made me sound old fashioned... I'd like to read the thread about it, do you remember where it was?
Here is the link to that thread
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
So it's a British vs American thing then, or what do you think? Is there any native English speaker who is British and could comment on this?
From what I have read about it, it is a US vs across the pond thing. Yet, I we have not had anyone from over there give us their two cents as to if it is still in wide usage. It would be interesting to know.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
There is some kind of practice of "Speech competitions" in the US which means that many people can deliver very clear, inspirational and eloquent speeches in a style that I really like. I've come across Americans with such skills several times. In Britain you rarely hear anything like that. One of the ministers in my local church is American and he one of the best speakers I've ever heard. If he was a politician he'd clean the floor of the competition.
I know there used to be when I was growing up; however, I am not certain if they still have them.
I can tell you that some people are just born natural speakers and my older daughter is one of those types. She has a natural cadence to her speaking and she does not even need to face the audience to draw the crowd in (as in when addressing a panel and having your back to the crowd). That is not something that can be easily taught, I really believe you have to be born with it. - It also doesn't hurt if you are really cute. Charisma goes a long way. :wink:
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johanna
The reason this kind of stuff is easier for perhaps Btpicker, Translationsnmru and myself is that we have consciously learnt it.
I'm not sure that's true for me. Of course I needed to acquire a sound knowledge of English grammar because I studied the language at university, but when I look back at how I actually learned the language, the things which come to mind are not actual learning efforts. I would say I learned English because I sang along with songs from bands I liked no matter what the lyrics actually meant (good for pronunciation, did nothing for my singing voice), started to read English novels in the original early on, and quickly learned many Monty Python sketches by heart. I get the impression that I soaked up vocabulary, grammar and expressions in a natural fashion while doing that rather than that I consciously learned how to create valid if-clauses, when to use progressive forms etc. I also think it was a very important step to use the single-language Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary instead of a translating one early on.
I try to use the same approach now when learning Russian. Exercises do little for me. Incidentally, I have noticed that the same goes for most students I helped with their English: exercises teach them how to solve exercises with as little effort as possible, like replicate if-clause patterns six times with new words, but even if they can do such exercises perfectly, in a real-world situation they cannot form even the most simple sentence.
Instead, I have people with whom I write e-mails in Russian, and I notice (but don't try to consciously memorize) what they correct. I read Russian on the net and a Russian novel and observe how things are expressed. I look up words I don't know, but don't make lists, don't write them down, don't use flash cards for repetition; either they stick, or they get looked up again and again until I master them. Furthermore, I try to put them into context (easy when they come from texts, hard when they come from flash cards or word lists) so I get to know them in their natural environment.
The only thing that's sorely missing is a good single-language dictionary of Russian. I've looked at some but they are not on par with the OALD. The ones I have seen do not explain in-depth or give examples, they more or less just collect synonyms.
Pictionaries are also a good resource: They show pictures with the words next to them rather than just words, and that helps to integrate the hemispheres of the brain when learning. Language-only information resides only in the let hemisphere, but the ideas you want to express are located in the right. If you learn a language text-only, you train your left hemisphere in translation, but you will always require translation before you can actually understand and extract ideas from a foreign language or formulate your own ideas in the target language.
As it is, I lack speaking experience in Russian, but I have local friends and Skype contacts with whom I could converse if only I gathered the courage to try... ;)
Robin
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpicker
... Of course I needed to acquire a sound knowledge of English grammar because I studied the language at university, but when I look back at how I actually learned the language, the things which come to mind are not actual learning efforts. I would say I learned English because I sang along with songs from bands I liked no matter what the lyrics actually meant (good for pronunciation, did nothing for my singing voice), started to read English novels in the original early on, and quickly learned many Monty Python sketches by heart. I get the impression that I soaked up vocabulary, grammar and expressions in a natural fashion while doing that rather than that I consciously learned how to create valid if-clauses, when to use progressive forms etc. I also think it was a very important step to use the single-language Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary instead of a translating one early on.
I try to use the same approach now when learning Russian. Exercises do little for me. Incidentally, I have noticed that the same goes for most students I helped with their English: exercises teach them how to solve exercises with as little effort as possible, like replicate if-clause patterns six times with new words, but even if they can do such exercises perfectly, in a real-world situation they cannot form even the most simple sentence.
Instead, I have people with whom I write e-mails in Russian, and I notice (but don't try to consciously memorize) what they correct. I read Russian on the net and a Russian novel and observe how things are expressed. I look up words I don't know, but don't make lists, don't write them down, don't use flash cards for repetition; either they stick, or they get looked up again and again until I master them. Furthermore, I try to put them into context (easy when they come from texts, hard when they come from flash cards or word lists) so I get to know them in their natural environment.
The only thing that's sorely missing is a good single-language dictionary of Russian. I've looked at some but they are not on par with the OALD. The ones I have seen do not explain in-depth or give examples, they more or less just collect synonyms.
Pictionaries are also a good resource: They show pictures with the words next to them rather than just words, and that helps to integrate the hemispheres of the brain when learning. Language-only information resides only in the let hemisphere, but the ideas you want to express are located in the right. If you learn a language text-only, you train your left hemisphere in translation, but you will always require translation before you can actually understand and extract ideas from a foreign language or formulate your own ideas in the target language.
As it is, I lack speaking experience in Russian, but I have local friends and Skype contacts with whom I could converse if only I gathered the courage to try... ;)
Robin
Great post! Very interesting. Thank you!
Which Russian songs or groups are your favorite?
Here are good dictionaries:
http://slovari.299.ru/oj.php
http://www.dict.t-mm.ru/ushakov
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lampada
The dictionary is bookmarked for later reference, thanks.
The one Russian band I found which I really like is Slot (Слот). I downloaded their albums from amazon.de, and printed their lyrics from their website. There's a new album due out this month and while I suppose I'm in the wrong country to lay my hands on one of the double-CD albums they are going to release I hope that the downloads at least will be available soon.
Even my boys (6 and 9) are already singing along to a couple of their songs even though they just mimick the sounds... ;)
Robin
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitpicker
I would say I learned English because I sang along with songs from bands I liked no matter what the lyrics actually meant (good for pronunciation, did nothing for my singing voice), Robin
It is funny that you say this because that is how my husband started to learn English as well. When I first met him he hardly knew any English and one day we were at work and The Moody Blues were on TV and he started to sing along to Nights in White Satin. We all turned around and looked at him surprised because he knew all the words to the song, yet could barely speak a complete sentence in English. We then found out he knew the words to almost all of the Creedence Clearwater Revival songs a ton of heavy metal songs yet he had almost no clue what the words meant.
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Re: English Pet Peeves & Common Mistakes
Back on topic here for a second...
AND PLUS... please, please, please... say or use ONE or the OTHER, not BOTH. :mad: