We in Russia are commonly taught a mixture of British and American dialects. I want to realize the differences and choose one of the langs :) Can you help me? Maybe, any useful links or anything else? Or is my plan just a freak? :)
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We in Russia are commonly taught a mixture of British and American dialects. I want to realize the differences and choose one of the langs :) Can you help me? Maybe, any useful links or anything else? Or is my plan just a freak? :)
First off, what are your goals? What will you use English for? Are you planning to travel? If so, where to - the US or Britain? And besides all that, which accent do you like better? Which culture interests you more? If you're learning English in order to visit the UK to go pub-crawling, watch a cricket or football match or just to tour historic sites, by all means, study the Queen's proper English. If you're learning English to visit the US to go bar-hopping, watch a basketball or football (not round!) game, or just to tour historic sites, go ahead and learn yourself some good American :lol: . Seriously, though, they are different languages and you're not at all crazy in deciding to choose between them. Personally, you'll be understood almost anywhere no matter which version you learn, if you learn good grammar and passable pronunciation. But although the Empire's gone, British English still seems to carry with it a certain prestige (when used naturally...Americans will sometimes fake a British accent when joking around), which might help in a business career.
We have some differnt slang term's and some differnt spellings. The accent is differnt too, but chances are youll be stuck with a Russian accent anyways, and it isn't like differnt parts of the US don't have differnt accents. You will be understood in both country's either way. I would probally just pick which version sounds the nicest to you, and what you will be using more.
Check out this link
http://esl.about.com/library/weekly/aa110698.htm
Moryachka, my main goal is not to be a laughing-stock :) I think, it will be very funny if one phrase I speak in British and another one in American :) So I must know at least main differences.
Joel, thank you for the link. I started to learn it :)
This is the most inaccurate and misleading statement that I have ever heard of. Something that i would expect to hear from only the most self centered American.Quote:
Originally Posted by Moryachka
The only thing different about the ENGLISH spoken in the USA and the ENGLISH spoken in Britain is the accent, except for what should be considered regional colloquialisms that you would find in any language.
The question you should ask yourself is "do i want an American accent or British?"
I advise going with British because you will appear more educated no matter what English speaking country you are in.
These days it is better not to be connected to America when you travel to other countries. Even in Australia, I was once berated in a Sydney pub by a rather attractive female for having spent 10 years in America. All of Americas faults were seen as mine, because I had the "audacity" to stay there so long.
You can travel much further and broader speaking British English than American.
No one will laugh at you for any mistake you may make. I had some friends from Iraq who spoke British English. They sounded very intelligent and educated as such. You will not be able to hide your Russian accent either way.Quote:
Originally Posted by pranki
But I can aim at this ;)Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
There is no significant difference between British English, American English, Austrailian English, Irish English, Scottish English.
It is awkward to discuss the American accent since I am an American and most educated Americans I converse with sound fine to me. :D
But I have to admit that the British accent has some appeal. For some reason the British accent sounds very Educated. I do not know why.
The Austrailian accent sounds un-educated to me. I am not saying it is bad, I still find the accent appealing and pleasent to listen to. Words like G'dye, barbie, mate, Ossie etc.
Irish and Scottish English sound merry to me. I guess it comes from listening to that lepracaun on the Lucky Charms cereal throughout my childhood years.
Well there are also vocabulary differences. For example, in American english, they say "bathroom", while if you go to Britain, they'll say "loo". In American english, you hear "cell phone", while in Britain you will here "mobile phone". Although on the whole, you would be able to get the gist of both of the dialects.
... and some spelling, vocab and pronounciation! What kind of armour are you wearing, or is it armor? Do put your shotgun in the trunk or the boot? do you say alUminum or alumInium? DDT, you drive a truck or a lorry for a living? Do you go drinking on the weekend or at the weekend? do you recognize or recognise what I am trying to say?Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
But Pranki, the differences are so minute, that you should worry absolutely nil about it. English is english, you'll be understood 99.99% of the time.
Чапаев – Бойцы, сегодня будем таскать люминийQuote:
Originally Posted by kalinka_vinnie
Петька – Не люминий, Василий Иванович, а Алюминий.
Чапаев – А шибко умные будут таскать чугуний :twisted:
I'm sorry. Didn't mean to come off that way. All I meant was to jokingly point out a few differences. Unfortunately, humour is not my strong point. And, Pranki - DDT's right. Nobody'll laugh at your accent. Yes, British English is likely the better way to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
Out of curiousity, what do you guys think of American accents?
There is a version of English, which is not Runglish, Chinglish or whatever, but English spoken by a lot of educated foreigners who speak English well and don't belong to an English-speaking country. They concentrate on getting their pronunciation right, probably closer to British but some have some American sound to it. Spelling is slightly different but it's OK to use either, as long as you're consistent. American accent can be good too if you speak like a TV commentator, not like a bus driver. So a foreigner (French, German, Russian, Chinese, whatever) who mastered English may choose correct British or correct American accent.
Australian local accent does sound a bit undeducated but many Australian fix their accents and speak very decently without "ockering". Fro example TV reporters speak very good English in Australia and I enjoy their English more than those on CNN.
Your Englsih will develop as you use it, the words and phrases you pick up depend on sources you use, so you may be influenced by American, British or other source, it's all English. I would focus on words and phrases understood by all English speakers first - slang words are just innumerable, they change all the time and may not be understood by other English speakers. Read English books/sites you like without bothering too much, which version it is and you will get most of it.
In the contemporary world, the Americans lead and the English follow, so if you wish to learn a useful language, the American standard of English is the one to learn.
During Soviet times, the standard taught was primarily that of the so-called "United Kingdom" (i.e. England). Recent textbooks, however, teach the American standard, apart from a few quirks of UK usage which haven't been noticed and edited out yet.
Trying to use a compromise language will only make you sound like Austin Powers, and just like Austin Powers, you will be laughed at.
That being said, most English speakers around the world are very tolerant of differences in pronunciation and accent, somewhat less tolerant of grammatical errors and rather intolerant of the irritating localisms of vocabulary that untraveled English people tend to use. The international standard that Anatolij writes about is the American standard of English spoken with various accents, any of which is acceptable, provided that the grammar and usage are basically American.
I would like to correct the name Anatolij into Anatoliy.
I can't wait till our UK members of MR get a load of you. wOOHoo!Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Well, in diplomacy, it's usually true, for better or worse.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
In language, you should be able to see that the formal written standards of Australia and Canada have moved closer to that of the USA and that the specialized vocabulary of computing and communications technology was coined almost exclusively in the USA.
It's all the matter of transliteration method used. My name Анатолий [letter-to-letter Anatoliy] has a short 'i' at the end, which can also be skipped when transliterated, it's spelled Anatoli in my passport as in my signature but more natural English spelling would be Anatoly. Letter j is pronounced as Y in 'yellow' in the majority of languages using Latin script, except perhaps English, French, Spanish and Portuguese. So Polish spelling could be Anatol or Anatolij, same with German, Turkish, etc. French name is Anatole with the mute 'e'.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtyom
I prefer Anatoli because that's the way I spell my name in English (I am not too fussed about people missplelling my name) but you will find other variations of spellings in English, in Russian there's only one full name - Анатолий.
True about Canada, not exactly about Australia. Australian spelling rules are a mixture of British and American, more British than American. It's organise, not organize, etc. It's much closer to British but a few American spelling rules were adopted as standard, e. g. program, not programme.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Anyway, no one will be punished for spelling in American way, in other words it's a personal choice.
In New Zealand schools they now allow both British and American spellings - a recent change.
On pronunciation. Standard Australian pronunciation (used by TV/Radio commentators) is pretty much like British. In "Park" R makes the vowel longer but is not pronounced, etc.
Some words like "schedule" can be pronounced both as "skejule" or "shedyule" by different people in Australia, the first being the American way. Route is pronounced "root", not "rowt" but router is usually pronounced "rowter" as in the US.
Spelling is just spelling. It doesn't affect a language's grammar and (in English) it rarely even affects pronunciation. As evidence of Australian English moving closer to American English: Australian newspapers almost never use the strange English combination of singular noun and plural verb ("Manchester United are...").
But they use Police ARE..., The United States ARE..., etc, if this is waht you mean. Of course, there is American influence in Australia - thanks to movies and internet but as I said it's more British than American, especially pronunciation, vocab and grammar. They say truck, not lorry (not sure if "lorry" is still used in UK), but boot, not trunk.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
But aren't you just making an assumption that the word "truck" is an "American" word in the first place? or "trunk" for that matter?
What proof is there that Aussie english is even 'drifting"? Even in the early 1960's most people used the word "truck" in Australia.
I submit to you that all these words are of English origin.
No, the word "truck" doesn't prove anything about the drift - all I know that dictionaries show lorry as B.E. and truck is A.E. (used in the same meaning of a lorry, not a handcart). "Boot" (A.E.) is more common than "trunk" (B.E.). Everyone knows what diapers (A.E.) are but Australians just say nappies (B.E.).Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
I can see the drift in kids, they use more American words than adults. It's more likely American English will take over in Australia, especially the vocabulary.
English is not my first language, so I don't have the full picture of trends and differences. Australian English is closer to B.E. because English-speaking are descendents from England, many of them are just second generation Australians and they make the largest proportion of immigrants followed by New Zealanders.
TV is dominated by Hollywood, of course except for ABC channel, which shows British movies and series non-stop.
Back to the original question: In my opinion, as a non-native speaker, which version of English to learn is not important, it's not like choice between Mandarin or Cantonese. Variants of English are not separate languages. Even if you choose a version, what you read and who you talk to will influence your English.
'Truck,' describing a road vehicle for freight, has its origin in America—even the obscenely Anglocentric Shorter Oxford English Dictionary concedes this fact. The Australians borrowed the word in that meaning from the Americans.Quote:
Originally Posted by DDT
Milanya, thank you for the link. I would suggest a few revisions to its author (and to any curious learners who may follow the link):
An optometrist is an oculist, not an occultist (misspelled as "oculltist").
Anyplace, someplace etc. are colloquial and should not be used in careful speech and writing.
Rubber for 'condom' is most definitely an impolite usage—it should be classified as a mild obscenity.
Angry is also used in the USA beside mad—they are synonyms in that sense. Indeed, angry is, in my opinion, the more common word.
There may be other mistakes but I didn't go through the whole list.
I don't hear the word angry near as often as I hear mad, but that is just me.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff
Same with me - when I watch American movies. In Australia "mad" means crazy. It's always funny to hear in movies people saying "Don't be mad", "Are you mad?", when they mean angry.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel
--
On American/British English used in Australia. Everybody says and writes 'autumn', not 'fall' here.
I haven't heard anyone say the word autumn for years :oQuote:
Originally Posted by Анатолий
Ask me! :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Joel
AS it turns out, you are quite right about the word "truck". I talked with an 80 year old Australian who remembers only hearing the word "lorry" for truck, in her childhood.
I use "autumn" and "fall" equally, they are synonyms. I actually prefer using the word "autumn" because "fall" is ambiguous. People confuse it with the verb "to fall".Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtyom
Check MY location, I am talking about English in AUSTRALIA, not US. My post was in answer to the question, which English is spoken in Australia, American or British.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel
[quote=Анатолий]Check MY location, I am talking about English in AUSTRALIA, not US. My post was in answer to the question, which English is spoken in Australia, American or British.[/quote:2gslpx3w]I wasn't argueing with you. I was just stating that I haven't heard anyone use the word autumn in a long time.Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel
And are there areas where people don't follow the influence and just prefer to use either "autumn" or "fall" just because of their sound (a case as with kwatts)?
No, I don't think so. As I said it's more British than American English in Australia (but there are things specific to only Australian English) because of their origin - Australians came from UK, not from US, some American influence doesn't change people's speech dramatically, some are even hostile to any influence and laugh imitating US accents and vocab (as some in America would laugh at British or Australian way of speaking).Quote:
Originally Posted by Rtyom
Fall is the commoner word here in the USA, but autumn is heard as well. (Tv weathermen/-women in particular seem to prefer it.) But autumn is not common as a modifier: One is much more likely to hear fall semester than autumn semester.
Umm.. this may only be an accepted rule of thumb for my area of the good old red-white-and-blue.. but if we hear someone speaking with a british accent, and they say things that we don't really understand. we just (mentally) shrug out shoulders and chalk it up as "those english and their language*. If you try and pick up a british accent, then travel to america.. then you may be given more leeway (room for making errors), as noone really knows what the english are talking about half the time. I know, I listened to an english shop owner in my area, and pretty much just listened to her accent and nodded a lot. ^^;;
........
In all seriousness, there will be words which do not translate very well, in either how they are used in a sentence, how they are pronounced, or.. OH, something important. If you understand the word, and are comfortable with saying it's translated counterpart.. then also associate that word with a facial expression if it is a very serious topic or a very relaxed topic. So when you are talking about a serious matter with someone, use a serious facial expression. But when you are speaking about something everyday or something funny.. use a relaxed facial expression. Even when we don't understand the words, understanding someone's facial expression helps to fill in the gaps.. some.
I'm English. Although I get annoyed often with other English people using American spellings or words, I don't think anyone would think badly of a foreigner using American English. Even a mix of the two will not get you laughed at (maybe misunderstood though if you start talking about jam/jelly/jello or chips/fries/crisps in the wrong way.) If you come to English you will probably be surprised at how bad most people are at speaking proper English.
There are probably more reasons for choosing American English. It's more widely spoken, and for business you are probably (I may be wrong) more likely to meet Americans. You're probably, unless you have an interest in England, more likely to visit America, and watch American TV shows and read American books. The only reasons for choosing to speak English English is the fact that we are in the same continent and English is the original. Once you've learned the differences, it will be easy for you to switch between when you need to. I could easily write American English if I needed to, although I'd probably forget sometimes.