Thread: concerning ARTICLES

Hello... I've a question concerning the usage of articles :

1. as I understand we can say "a tea" when we oder a cup of tea ---but can we say "a soap" meaning a cake of soap ?

2. "The rest of us had finished eating , but John had cut himself another slice of ___ cheese ." Can we say "another slice of the cheese"?


Thank you.

Originally Posted by Ekaterina

but can we say "a soap" meaning a cake of soap ?

Saying a soap is perfectly fine, but I do not understand why anyone would make a cake of soap -- it would not be edible. Did you mean "soup"? But what is a cake of soup then?

2. "The rest of us had finished eating , but John had cut himself another slice of ___ cheese ." Can we say "another slice of the cheese"?

That will mean "that particular cheese".

EDIT: so there!

Hello Ekaterina,

English is a very forgiving language. What I mean with this is that you can say things that aren't necessarily what a native speaker would say, but they wouldn't be incorrect.

So "a soap" would be OK, I think. But really, when would you need to say this? I guess "I bought a soap for my bathroom", but here it sounds like the soap is something you would use for cleaning(that is, cleaning things other than your body). BTW, don't know about British/American differences, but I always say "a bar of soap." Although "a cake of soap" is very cute sounding But anyhow, most of the time when referring to a bar of soap, you would say the soap and it would be perfectly correct(except it might be confused with other soaps, like, say, a soap coming from a dispenser). Example:
She took the soap and lathered herself with it.

About another slice of the cheese, it's fine, but it changes the meaning slightly. It implies that the cheese has some significance instead of just being something that he happened to be eating along with his meal. For instance, if there was a cheese platter served.

EDIT: Darn, BM beat me to it.

Originally Posted by Pravit

She took the soap and lathered herself with it.

Pravit, tell me more.

Where do people say, "cake of soap" ? Is this British?

No, we British say 'a bar of soap' too. But I have heard of 'cakes' of soap. It's very old or something. Not to be used, use 'bar'.

Originally Posted by Pravit

most of the time when referring to a bar of soap, you would say the soap

..except that time ... the choice is between 'a bar of soap' and 'the soap' and it's dictated much in the same way as the choice between 'a cat' and 'the cat'. However 'a soap' is perfectly possible, just rare, because there are no uncountable nouns, only uncountable contexts.

Thanks a lot for your answers.

I'm a language student at University and this semester we are studing articles .

Our professor said we couldn't say "a soap" only "a cake of soap". I'm a little bit surprised ... because we can say "a tea"

Besides, I think we can say both : __cheese or the cheese, it depends on the situation. But the professor told us that we could use no article (only) because we didn't have the context . Of course we can say it without article but I'd prefer to say "the" cheese

a tea sounds really unnatural. I would say...

Hm. When ordering at a restaurant, I do say "I'll have an iced tea."

I'll have an iced tea.

I believe that is a colloquialism, much like saying,

"Different teas grow in different climates, so a tea from Sri Lanka won't necessarily grow well in China, for example."

Do I win

[quote=scotcher]"Different teas grow in different climates, so a tea from Sri Lanka won't necessarily grow well in China, for example."

Do I win

I'm sure this is not news to anyone, but articles seem to be one of the trickiest things for Russians (more so even than other foreign learners) in English. So much so, that it is almost a stereotype. Even Russians with otherwise wonderful English language skills will often, in my experience, omit articles. Of course, this can be a tough part of English, but I guess my advice is, "if in doubt, don't leave it out."

Fortunately, Pravit is right that English is pretty forgiving about this, but it is important if you are striving for perfection.

A story to illustrate this. When I was in law school, one of my class colleagues was a Russian woman. She had accented, but pretty much perfect English (this was at an Ivy League school and she was doing well) -- enough to easily and quickly handle sophisticated questions from pedantic professors over complex issues in front of about 150 other students.

At the start of one semester I ran into her in the locker area at school and she had a bandage over her head.

I asked her the obvious question. With a typical American, this would probably have resulted in a very long and complicated explanation of how it had happened, whose fault it was, what the treatment was, how it is now, etc.

Olga, in a wonderfully Russian moment, just looked at me and simply said . . .

"saucepan fall on head"

And really, that was all I needed to know.

Mark

It's a humor!

Originally Posted by Pravit

It's a humor!

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAH

[quote=scotcher]Do I win

soap is sold in "cakes". It doesn't mean a cake like you eat, that's just how you say it... although, "bar" is way more common.

You shouldn't say "a tea". You can say "a cup of tea" or just "I'll have tea" or I'll have some tea". "a tea" sounds silly.

never say "a soap" , just say "i need to buy soap" or "i need some soap" or "where did you put the soap"
"he stinks, he needs some soap" "where did you buy this soap?"
"where did you get that soap"
"I bought a bar of soap" "I bought soap"

examples with "cheese":
John had another slice of cheese
I love cheese, I like to eat cheese
I bought cheese
I dropped the cheese on the floor
I ate cheese for dinner.
"where is the cheese?" "I ate the cheese" (specific)
never say "a cheese", except like this: can you recommend a cheese to pair with this wine?"

God, I never realized how complicated these articles must be to someone learning english! But, you have to admit that it's easier than learning russian as a second language- i can't believe how many ways there are to say "go"!!

Originally Posted by TexasMark

Olga, in a wonderfully Russian moment, just looked at me and simply said . . .

"saucepan fall on head"

When I first learn a language, I go full throttle with the accent of the language I'm learning.I think that's just a degree of correctness in pronunciation.But, I think once I get used to the language a bit, and have mastered the 'potential for' it's accent, I drift back into my own personal and national accent.I used to think of it being a buzz if someone thought I was one of their native speakers.But now, I think of how exciting it is when I hear a strong, but comprehensible, foreign accent.So, I'm not as interested in passing myself off as a native-speaker anymore.I want people to experience my foreigness.
Funny thing for me in my native English tongue; I used to have a Lebanese creole accent, because I was brought up in an Arabic area.So, when I changed schools, and even beforehand, people would guess "Are you... Russian, Turkish, French, Greek etc?" The only two nationalities people didn't guess, were Australian and Lebanese.Now, according to some French guy I know, my Aussie accent is thicker than that of my friends.

Originally Posted by brett

Funny thing for me in my native English tongue; I used to have a Lebanese creole accent, because I was brought up in an Arabic area.So, when I changed schools, and even beforehand, people would guess "Are you... Russian, Turkish, French, Greek etc?" The only two nationalities people didn't guess, were Australian and Lebanese.Now, according to some French guy I know, my Aussie accent is thicker than that of my friends.

Are you sure that you don't just have a plain ol' "Westie" accent? l

Originally Posted by DDT

Are you sure that you don't just have a plain ol' "Westie" accent? l

Ha.Perhaps.But the local Canterbury Lebanese refered to the 'white folks' , or 'skips' out Parramatta way (or somewhere 'else', anyway)as westies.After that I moved into 'the deep south' (well no, but south anyway) with 'the surfies', or 'skips' near Cronulla.Fascinating everyone else here with this highly relatable info. has been my pleasure.[insert "sarcasm" emoticon here].