Learn cursive.

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Originally Posted by Shido

Is it necessary to learn cursive? I am teaching myself Russian and I am wondering if there is a better way to write it. Connecting certain characters gets confusing. For example, writing химик.

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what's the special trouble with химик?
anyway, cursive is the way to write in any language, including Russian. But there are as many variaties of cursive as there are Russians :) you'll figure out a style that fits you (probably one that is close to how you write in English) eventually. Don't think too much if you can't figure out how to connect a couple letters, you'll find a comfortable way (avoid dropping hooks though, in particular the front lower hooks in "l","m" and such). It's no big deal if you don't connect a particular letter -- e.g. I do not connect "x" with the following one. You are not in grade school after all.

The "ими" look like three u's next to each other. The subtle extended line in the cursive is hard to portray when all three letters have the same basic shape. The difference between them is so minor that it's hard to tell which letter is which. Unless I'm doing something wrong?

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Originally Posted by Shido

The "ими" look like three u's next to each other. The subtle extended line in the cursive is hard to portray when all three letters have the same basic shape. The difference between them is so minor that it's hard to tell which letter is which. Unless I'm doing something wrong?

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If it looks like three "i"s to you, then I suspect you are dropping the left low hook in "m" -- exactly the mistake that I was warning against, I've seen people doing that before and this is something never ever done. The first "i" ends with a low hook which connects near the bottom with another low hook in "m".
In some people's writing the low hooks may get high so the "imi" will be undistinguishable from "ishi", bit never "iii".

Can you find an example of this?

Спасибо!

look at the chart above and you will see the hooks. What kind of textbook do you have that doesn't show you how to write, anyway??

Try writing the word "minimum" and then let's hear you complain about the "u" side by side! =:^0

PS check out the link I gave here:
http://masterrussian.net/mforum/viewtopic.php?t=3304

PPS Oops! Should have thecked the link first. You'll have to hunt it down yourself, I'm afraid.

It shows me how to do the cursive. I just don't quite get how to do it, in this case. :roll:

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Originally Posted by Shido

It shows me how to do the cursive. I just don't quite get how to do it, in this case. :roll:

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Do you have cursive written alphabet?
To write "химик" just take the letters just like they are given in the alphabet (with little hooks) and put them together. That's the way the are connected!

I guess I can just troubleshoot it and figure it out. Thanks.

I uploaded a copy-book ("пропись"), published in 1961 (32 pages in .jpeg, samples of letters, words, phrases and texts written in cursive).

That's an example of "classical" (school) cursive writing, our parents learned to write by that book, and as far as I know kids still learn to write the same way. Usually adults don't write like that. It looks childish cause it's too diligent, but still you can learn from that book how letters are connected. When you become familiar with the general principle, you'll gradually develop your own handwriting.

http://rapidshare.de/files/25945409/propis.rar.html

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I uploaded a copy-book ("пропись"), published in 1961 (32 pages in .jpeg, samples of letters, words, phrases and texts written in cursive).

That's an example of "classical" (school) cursive writing, our parents learned to write by that book, and as far as I know kids still learn to write the same way.

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Now it's different (I think Lampada had a jpg with the letters I learned at school, it might be different now still). this style assumes writing with an ink pen with a steel tip, hence the width variation, most people here probably haven't even seen those :)
but of course adults won't write the same way, same applies to English.
I can't imagine how they can avoid teaching kids to write English in cursive in many American schools, lbut apparently that's the case. How people who do not write in cursive manage to get through a university is a puzzle for me.

In my country people rarely write in cursive. I can, but I never do because it looks lame and noone can read it.

By the way, is this correct connecting of letters?

шит

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7936/shitjm4.th.png

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Originally Posted by basurero

In my country people rarely write in cursive. I can, but I never do because it looks lame and noone can read it.

By the way, is this correct connecting of letters?

шит

http://img301.imageshack.us/img301/7936/@@@@.th.png

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it is, though it's not necessary to use lines under Ш and over Т.

Which is better do you reckon?

http://img231.imageshack.us/img231/6...t001tb5.th.jpg

Читается легко. К тому же особых отличий в стилях я не увидел.

Согласна с Алваром. :D
Только "в" должно быть такой же высоты, что и "б".

Вполне читаемо, но чтение требует напряжения внимания.

Прикольно, спасибо. До тех пор, пока читаемо, то у меня все в порядке!

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Originally Posted by Wowik

Вполне читаемо, но чтение требует напряжения внимания.

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Ха!! Это читается довольно легко. Видели бы вы что мне приходилось читать, когда я изучал конспекты товарищей перед подготовкой к экзамену.... Это было что-то!!!

Лол, никто не может читать то, что я пишу при подготовке к экзаменам, даже я не могу его читать.

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Originally Posted by basurero

Лол, никто не может читать то, что я пишу при подготовке к экзаменам, даже я не могу это читать.

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Можешь пример привести ? Я хочу посмотреть на твой почерк!!!

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

I uploaded a copy-book ("пропись"), published in 1961 (32 pages in .jpeg, samples of letters, words, phrases and texts written in cursive).

That's an example of "classical" (school) cursive writing, our parents learned to write by that book, and as far as I know kids still learn to write the same way. Usually adults don't write like that. It looks childish cause it's too diligent, but still you can learn from that book how letters are connected. When you become familiar with the general principle, you'll gradually develop your own handwriting.

http://rapidshare.de/files/25945409/propis.rar.html

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gRomoZeka, do you still have the said file with you? It's no longer at the rapidshare site. Thanks.

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Originally Posted by tohca

gRomoZeka, do you still have the said file with you? It's no longer at the rapidshare site. Thanks.

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I'll reupload it as soon as I can. Do you want me to convert .jpeg files to PDF?

NEW link to the book (in .jpeg files):
Download from RS

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

NEW link to the book (in .jpeg files):
Download from RS

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Тысяч спасибо!
The handwriting is really clear, nice and easy to follow. Yes, if you do have the .pdf version would be very convenient indeed.

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Originally Posted by tohca

Тысяча спасибо!
The handwriting is really clear, nice and easy to follow. Yes, if you do have the .pdf version would be very convenient indeed.

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You are welcome. :) I don't have a PDF version, but it's easy to make one from these jpegs, and I'll upload it later.

"Прописи" is a great way of learning cursive, I wish I kept my own "пропись" from my school times. It differed from this one: there were room for the pupil to copy the examples, and there were introductory exercises for every combination of letters, where you had to connect the dots, imitating the shape of the letters.

EDIT:
Weee! While I was writing this post I found two online "propises". They seem cool, very similar to the one I had in the first grade.

The handwriting is cleaner and more modern, without excess flourish. Looks really good. The second one seems a little bit more advanced.

Online PROPIS #1: here

Online PROPIS #2: here

Do you still need PDF? :) I guess not.

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

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Originally Posted by tohca

Тысяча спасибо!

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I'd say "Тысяча спасибо" doesn't sound that natural either. I'd say rather "Тысячу раз спасибо".
Anyway the much more common variants are:
Большое спасибо! (more or less neutral)
Огромное спасибо! (more expressive)
Большущее спасибо! (+more expressive)

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Originally Posted by Оля

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

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Originally Posted by tohca

Тысяча спасибо!

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I'd say "Тысяча спасибо" doesn't sound that natural either. I'd say rather "Тысячу раз спасибо".
Anyway the much more common variants are:
Большое спасибо! (more or less neutral)
Огромное спасибо! (more expressive)
Большущее спасибо! (+more expressive)

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Thanks.
Just trying to use the English expression, thousand thanks or
thanks a million.

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Originally Posted by gRomoZeka

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Originally Posted by tohca

Тысяча спасибо!
The handwriting is really clear, nice and easy to follow. Yes, if you do have the .pdf version would be very convenient indeed.

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You are welcome. :) I don't have a PDF version, but it's easy to make one from these jpegs, and I'll upload it later.

"Прописи" is a great way of learning cursive, I wish I kept my own "пропись" from my school times. It differed from this one: there were room for the pupil to copy the examples, and there were introductory exercises for every combination of letters, where you had to connect the dots, imitating the shape of the letters.

EDIT:
Weee! While I was writing this post I found two online "propises". They seem cool, very similar to the one I had in the first grade.

The handwriting is cleaner and more modern, without excess flourish. Looks really good. The second one seems a little bit more advanced.

Online PROPIS #1: here

Online PROPIS #2: here

Do you still need PDF? :) I guess not.

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While the 2 PROPIS are good, I think your earlier прописи is much better.
It may be much older, but as they say, old is gold.

Classics is good. :) But it's a matter of taste. Personally I don't like a shape of some letters in the old "propis", for example, the standard cursive small "з" should always have a long hook, but in this propis it's sometimes looks like capital "з", only smaller. Also the capital letters have to much flourish. Nobody writes it like that anymore.

And the best thing about the online ones is that it shows a correct succession of strokes for every letter. It's very useful for a beginner.

Of course, in Russian it's not so crucial as in Japanese, but you'll be able to write faster and you'll have a better handwriting if you write every letter in a traditional way.

It's much more useful to know cursive. More native speakers write in it as opposed to print. It sticks easier if you write ALL of your studies in cursive. Italics are another good thing to know as well because I've noticed that a lot of newspapers use italics instead of regular print.

Yes writting cursive cyrillic was probably the highlight of my learning Russian. Be careful though, it can be quite addictive. I was writting everything in cursive at one time. Feels so cool.........

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Originally Posted by tohca

Yes writting cursive cyrillic was probably the highlight of my learning Russian. Be careful though, it can be quite addictive. I was writting everything in cursive at one time. Feels so cool.........

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Haha word. I do all my capital H's like the cursive cyrillic way. All my notebooks are like that and when people borrow my notes for class they are like....what the heck..

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Originally Posted by mcgovlau

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Originally Posted by tohca

Yes writting cursive cyrillic was probably the highlight of my learning Russian. Be careful though, it can be quite addictive. I was writting everything in cursive at one time. Feels so cool.........

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Haha word. I do all my capital H's like the cursive cyrillic way. All my notebooks are like that and when people borrow my notes for class they are like....what the heck..

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Have you ever had a case when, writing in English cursive, you use cursive Cyrillic letters? Like writing 'dog' as 'gog'.