Thread: Russian Firarms

Like I said, all your "facts" are but statistical noise. Here are some real facts for you:

Americans own about 30 million semi-automatics--about 15% of all guns. Semi-autos are used for the same purposes as other firearms: target shooting, hunting, and protection. AR-15s, M1As, and M1s are the most popular center-fire target rifles in America, easily outnumbering all other rifles in the annual National Rifle and Pistol Championships.

Source: NRA, http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=59

Now let's take that apart and see what it might mean with regards to AKs. If those three particular models "easily outnumber" all the others, then they represent at least 50% of the semi-auto rifles. That in turns means that no model in all the "other rifles" can be more than (50% / 3) / 2 = approx. 8% of that number. We have to divide by 3 because there are 3 "most popular", and then by at least 2 to have it "less popular". So that makes 2.4 million at most. Even if take your "companies", they will hardly keep more than half that number for future sales, so that makes 3.6 million. It is only 7% of 50 million, the latter being a very conservative estimate of the number of AKs worldwide.

Most of them are floating around the Middle East and Central Asia, probably. Not that I'd really know. Most of the freedom fighters in Iraq are using them, aren't they?

Perhapse, you are right on this one BM. I'll give you the benafit of the doubt.

Finely got pictures of that Makarov. It has a set of my oak grips on it and a finish touch up I did immediately after picking it up, which includes the white lettering and HK style safety finish.











This is a very small but well made gun.

Guns. Splendid. What's next - plastic explosives in portrait? A nail-bomb? Or he could cut out the middle man and give us some close-up shots of a gaping entry-wound or two. Pervert.

I live in Texas, and I'm quite comfortable with guns, but you my friend really do scare me.

Sounds more like you my friend are a chameleon.

BTW.
I've been in the gun business for years. No one seams to be afraid of me.
In fact, I actually have a growing reputation and may be responsible for designing or creating features on one of your guns or guns that someone you know has.

I'll be sure to tell all of my gun totin' relatives...I mean kin, to keep an eye out for the name 44 canon. Yes...

OK. You run along now.

Untill what year the TT-33 was in use, untill what year the SKS was in use, and the AK-47 and AKM was in use?

Other thing here in Mexico the Army use G-3 rifles of caliber 7.62 NATO it is very powerfull and the Naval Infantry uses M-16 of 5.56 NATO.

By What means discontinued.
The Tokarev pistol I believe saw service in the Soviet military clear up in to the mid 1970s, 1980s ( guns like this tend to gradually dissolve from service over time ) and was replaced by the IJ-70 and the later OTS pistols.
I could be wrong but I think some forces are still using the SKS.
Soviets quit fiddling with the gun in the 1950s I believe.
I have not played much with the Kalashnikove production dates since it's not a gun I am very fond of.
Most south American countries use G-3, FAL, STG-58 etc. series rifles.
Their great guns, but a little limited in versatility.
Personally, I am a fan of the M-14, but if I had to go with a G-3 style weapon, it'de be a HK-91 or CETME.

44 Canon - can you explain how you marry your fascination with arms with your Christian principles

I must have missed this one.
First off, I am first a scientist. I believe in facts, suspect on evidence and have faith in the creator and what I know about him.
Now, perhaps you should imagine asking the same question to all the Christians who wrote the Constitution of the United states and brought fourth the 2nd amendment ( the right of the people to keep and bare arms.
Christianity has a very long history of use of weapons, not including the heretics who used their religion to their own liking.
Their are quite a few areas in the bible ( both old and new testament ) that somewhat COMMAND that people be ready to defend themselves, their homes, way of life and families through whatever means are necessary at the time.
Their have been a few instances in history where Christians took up arms to fight off tyrants both from without and within, probably the most famous of all was the French war with Britain lead by Gen. Joan of Ark.
Those who DO NOT remain armed and ready to defend themselves are ALWAYS the victims of tyranny eventually.
Anti-gun groups have ALWAYS sought to only do harm to innocent people or sell themselves to a higher dictatorship on the rise who seek to harm innocent people. The most famous and clear example of this was the German Nazis who disarmed all "undesirables" in Germany before they were willing to conduct the holocaust.
The Dutch and Polish had developed registration systems and civilian arms limitations which the Nazis used to their own advantage and some speculation exists that had they not had those restrictions ( what most people today think of as "sensible" gun restrictions ) they may have been able to defeat the Nazis. Even today, Dutch I have spoken with admit that they are now just as vulnerable to invasion as they were in WW II and are just hoping that it never happens ( it ALWAYS happens eventually.
Britain was in very bad shape, where their gun rights were stripped to bare minimum and the NRA wound up coming to their rescue as the Germans threatened invasion.
Ultimately, armed citizens throughout the war fought, as well as armed soldiers and many Germans were killed.
If you think that is a work of evil, then consider this. Had they NOT fought the Germans, by refusing to fight, we would have allowed our families to be slaughtered ( a biblical no-no ) as well as ourselves probably and Christianity would no longer exist today.
When forces of evil arise, it is the Christians RESPONSIBILITY to bring them down when met by them, which no unarmed country has been able to do on their own in a very long time.
On the other side, a man who owns a full-auto AK-47 with a bayonet on it is guilty of no crime. He has not harmed anyone by having it. To take it from him and imprison him for having it is punishment of an innocent man, and that makes YOU the evil doer.
It's like having Alcohol ( which in society claims more lives every year through reckless use then guns ), having it is not a crime. It's what you do with it.
As for me, I am a sorter. I shoot for sport. Not animals but mostly long-range silhouettes. In addition, the majority of my gun hobby revolves around gun smithing, making high-quality custom sports firearms.
My only violent ambissions with firearms is to defend my loved ones if ever endangered ( which I seek and hope to never have to do.
What is anti-Christian about any of that?

Originally Posted by 44 Canon

The Tokarev pistol I believe saw service in the Soviet military clear up in to the mid 1970s, 1980s ( guns like this tend to gradually dissolve from service over time ) and was replaced by the IJ-70 and the later OTS pistols.

The production of Tokarev pistol (TT) in the USSR was finished in 1952. The replacement of TT by ПМ in the Soviet Army was finished in 60s. Actually, some quantity of TT pistols is keeping in special reserve stores up to now.

Originally Posted by 44 Canon

I could be wrong but I think some forces are still using the SKS.

I think it's true.

Originally Posted by 44 Canon

It's like having Alcohol

What's the point in having alcohol if not for drinking? Guns if not for shooting? War if not for killing?

I don't think Jesus would agree to "wage war" like the world. Even in what we think is good for our loved ones. God always knows what is better, and defending the US or any country in God's name is irrational, because a Christian's Kingdom isn't here, it's in Christ. (yeah, you could say i'm a tad bit opinionated). Jesus even told Peter to put his sword away when he cut of that servant-guy's ear(Malchus, i think his name was)..and then he healed him! "And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, 'No more of this!' and he touched the man's ear and healed him."(from the gospel of Luke chapter 22). And in the gospel of Matthew, in chapter26, it says..."Put your sword back in its place," Jesus said to him, "for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and He will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?"

I see absolutely nothing wrong with guns for sports, hunting, etc... I do see something and everything wrong with "In the name of Jesus, die!"
i don't think you can tame evil by practicing it.
that's my understanding. but i'm sure some/many disagree.

You forgot one of my favorite rifles, the SVD Dragunov:
http://www.world.guns.ru/sniper/sn18-e.htm

Unfortunately real Russian ones are nearly impossible to find over here and if you ever do it's likely to cost you $3,000+

and, if you didn't forget it, then, please excuse my missing it because I just skimmed over those four pages pretty quickly.

Originally Posted by TheCardinal

You forgot one of my favorite rifles, the SVD Dragunov:
http://www.world.guns.ru/sniper/sn18-e.htm

Unfortunately real Russian ones are nearly impossible to find over here and if you ever do it's likely to cost you $3,000+

I depends on what are you gonna do with that. The accuracy of SVD is not good but it has reliable automatics and could be loaded with any sort of cartridges. The earlier ones have different rifling and better accuracy but they could not shoot any of incendiary bullets.

IMHO, the Vepertm is a better gun in every way.
More accurate, more controllable, better balanced and uses a more common cartridge.
Either way, M-25A Sniper rifle IMHO is the best sniper rifle on earth of it's profile.
Just as powerful, just as reliable, much lighter, far more accurate, better balanced.
Unfortunately, it's 3x as expensive as the Dragunove costing around $2500 or more.
The Dragunove has it's potential though. I wouldn't mind seeing a Mosin Nagent M-91 barrel drilled and tapped in to an SVD.
On the other hand, Norinco and Polytech have been known for making some highly accurate, high performance ( and now highley expensive ) Kalashnikove rifles and I wouldn't be surprise if they don't make a high-performance SVD as well, although I've never looked for or seen one.

What's the point in having alcohol if not for drinking? Guns if not for shooting? War if not for killing?

I use every gun I own yet have never shot anyone.
As one reputable defense instructor once said: "like fire alarms, you can have a gun all your life and never need it but in the event that you do, it can be a matter of life or death for you or your loved ones."

I can really go on and on with you about where God and Christ as one support and oppose the use of weapons in different ways.
On thing the bible NEVER did was state that Gods people not own weapons nor be prepared to defend themselves, their homes, their families and ways of life. In fact, the bible orders that you do that.
I made a post in the politics section about how American ownership of firearms right now is a major barrier that is keeping international carnage from happening, and that the anti-gun movement is rigged to enable world dominance.
This is a tactic the bible thurally addresses ( Satan and evil working like a wolf in sheep's skin ) using fundamentals to make gun control look good and Godley when in reality, it will work to one day enable the uprising persecution of Christians and another international holocaust.

Jesus even told Peter to put his sword away when he cut of that servant-guy's ear(Malchus, I think his name was)..and then he healed him! "And one of them struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his right ear. But Jesus answered, 'No more of this!' and he touched the man's ear and healed him."(from the gospel of Luke chapter 22).

Yeah, HE ( referring to Christ and God as one ) also ordered David to KILL goliath, dispatched Sampson to fight off an army, ordered his people to take down the walls of Jericho and allegedly sent St. Joan of Ark out to kill thousands of people.
Lets not forget about Arch Angel Michaels little friend.
It's one thing to blow up on another in anger like St. Peter did ( while Christ CHOSE to be taken in ) but their comes a point where you have to defend good and peace with violence, not because you want to but because you have to.
I use guns for plinking and smiting and that's it. If the US or UN ever DID try to pull a holocaust on Christianity or the world, your attitude towards me and millions of other American CHRISTIANS being armed will very quickly take a big turn.
The United States of America was founded by Christians and it was these Christians who made the right to keep and bare arms the second most important and critical amendment of the constitution of this country, and for a reason.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with guns for sports, hunting, etc... I do see something and everything wrong with "In the name of Jesus, die!"

In that blunt of terms, I agree with you 100%.
Going out and killing people in the name of God is wrong. Defending your home and lifestyle in the name of God is not. The right to keep and bare arms is not their so Americans can go pick fights with others. It's their for when others come and pick fights with us, and gun owners are as human as you and everyone else. In fact, gun enthusiasts like myself and most of my gun buddies are very skilled in using our weapons and are superior to most people in combat abilities as result and although I myself never had the problem to get rid of most people from my experience like martial artists become more laid back, less of basket cases and far more friendly, peace loving and willing to work things out as result.

Originally Posted by 44 Canon

It's one thing to blow up on another in anger like St. Peter did ( while Christ CHOSE to be taken in ) but their comes a point where you have to defend good and peace with violence, not because you want to but because you have to.

sorry, but i disagree...Peter didn't do that out of anger..it is easily noticed in context that it was done to defend his cause (not God's, but his own). So, should we defend our cause with weapons? Or should God be our Defender?

one other thing- you cannot defend good and peace with violence. that is being a hypocrite. no, you don't have to. you may want to, even, but you do NOT have to.

and even if there is mass persecution (and yes, there is), of Christians, God can defend. in fact, the message of Christ is spreading more rapidly in places where persecution floods the streets. where in the bible does God demand that you arm yourself with physical weapons?

and your loved ones should include both your neighbors and enemies. no?

one other thing- you cannot defend good and peace with violence. that is being a hypocrite. no, you don't have to. you may want to, even, but you do NOT have to.

This concept has been proven wrong many of times.
You may also want to recall the famous story of the Christian on his roof during a flood.

The bible displays that God has ordered human being to wage violence in defense of Gods kingdom on earth, and that's a FACT.
Also, let me specify one line of yours:

you cannot defend good and peace with violence. that is being a hypocrite.

What you are saying is that we should have just let Hitler rampage and slaughter everyone he wanted to.
If you are unwilling to defend yourself, your family and way of life, someone else will take it by force.
It is because of some of the most fierce blood baths in the history of mankind that you are allowed religious freedom, to express your opinion and even live in your own home. Maybe even exist.

Christ did acknowledge that military, war and defense do have their places in Gods kingdom. He also laid down rules for them: Be content with your pay and do not bully.
Yes, the US military is breaking both rules, but that's the military, not individual citizens ready to defend their homes, which is the constitutional way our defense is meant to be and the reason why the right to keep and bare arms is their.

Unfortunately real Russian ones are nearly impossible to find over here and if you ever do it's likely to cost you $3,000+

I would check your import laws and figure out what Russian currency is to American.
SVDs can be bought here in the US for as little as $500-$600 at times. You will probably have trouble finding a company willing to export one, but if you get on the good side of an American citizen who has a few, you might be able to talk him/her in to sending you one and for a good price. You might also get some goodies with it that may not be available in Russia such as synthetic stocks, trigger enhancements etc.
Another option ( if your currency is good enough to American ) would be to see if you can order in an M-25A sniper rifle ( an M-14 with a scope on it. Although they LOOK more basic then the SVD, they are MUCH better all around then the SVD and Marstar in Canada has Norinco M-305s for $399.
All you need to convert an M-305 to an M-25A is a scope mount and a scope, and if you demand the fancy pistol grip stock, show me proof that they can legally be exported to Russia and I'll send you one ( I make one of the best on the market.



M-25A Sniper rifle is one of the most versatile rifles on earth, and one of the most accurate military rifles on earth with comparable reliability to the AK-47.

The earlier ones have different rifling and better accuracy but they could not shoot any of incendiary bullets.

Now, I must ask why you, civilian might want to use incendiary ammo in a sniper rifle.
For military combat use, I can see where they might come in handy for an AK, but even in military, incendiary ammo in a sniper rifle doesn't make sense as something useful enough to worry about.
I know that many people enjoy using them as fireworks ( my self included ) but I would still worry about doing that in things like shotguns where you get more for your money.
Otherwise, you may find a use for them if you're a strategic criminal, but in that case, the Spetsnaz will find a use for you, and after seeing how they treat violent criminals, I wouldn't want to be in their path.