Thread: Moscow Housing

Please explain what these materials are that are "hardly distinguishable from paper". If you could tell us exactly where in the US (city, state) these can be found and what exactly do you mean by "a fragil framework" I will try to answer your questions.
I have owned and remodeled many houses in California (and had one house custom built) and have never run across anything that resembles "a paper house with a fragil framework". Houses in California are required to withstand earthquakes, fires, floods and landslides. In the mountains they are designed to withstand heavy snow and freezing temperatures.
And as for comparing housing laws from one state to another, that would take up way too much space on this forum and bore everyone to tears. In a nutshell, states with snow have housing codes to make the occupants safe from all the problems snow can cause. States with earthquakes have laws to keep people safe from buildings collapsing during earthquakes. Which means your more likely to find a solid brick house in Montana than in Alaska.
And the government passing emergency legislation to rapidly repair a city after a natural disaster is a good thing. In America the federal government agents show up quickly with lots of money for the state and for individual residents after a natural disaster. So everyone gets the repairs done quickly and can get back to a normal life.
Does this happen in Russia?

Originally Posted by JB

Please explain what these materials are that are "hardly distinguishable from paper". If you could tell us exactly where in the US (city, state) these can be found and what exactly do you mean by "a fragil framework" I will try to answer your questions.

What questions? The only questions that I had in this thread were "such as", which you have answered satisfactorily, and "and look exactly like those paper things, right?", which you have not answered. If you feel like answering the second question, you can substitute "paper thing" with "typical house in California".

Houses in California are required to withstand earthquakes, fires, floods and landslides.

I do not remember about earthquakes, floods and landslides, but a recent fire in California consumed a lot of houses. Built to a high fire safety standard, aren't they?

Which means your more likely to find a solid brick house in Montana than in Alaska.

It was your statement about some mythical houses in Russia that looked like "big houses in America". All your further clarifications simply confirm that no such thing exists.

And the government passing emergency legislation to rapidly repair a city after a natural disaster is a good thing. In America the federal government agents show up quickly with lots of money for the state and for individual residents after a natural disaster. So everyone gets the repairs done quickly and can get back to a normal life.
Does this happen in Russia?

Yep.

Except that the original statement was about some road construction in St. Petersburg, Russia, which was not a result of a natural disaster. And that is now being compared with the best American performance following a natural disaster. Can it be more biased?

When were you last in California (and what is your experience in home construction)?
A fire storm will consume everything in it's path and melt solid steel into a puddle. But a lot of houses in last years fires were spared because they were built to the newer fire codes.
Those mythical big houses in Russia are in my mythical Moscow neighborhood (Altufevo).

Originally Posted by JB

Those mythical big houses in Russia are in my mythical Moscow neighborhood (Altufevo).

"a combo of wood and plaster construction"?

The framing on the new ones under construction is wood, some are using cement block and/or brick for outside walls. Those that are completed on the outside but not the interiors have workers covered in plaster carrying what looks like tools for plastering walls, walking in and out of the houses.
On the completed homes some of the outsides are finished in a smooth or textured material that looks like stucco. Some appear to to be all wood replicas or stylized copies of historical Russian country houses and one looks like a log cabin (a very large 2 story log cabin).

Is it simply a layer of plaster (or should I say sheetrock?) attached to a skeleton-like frame or is it plaster attached to a thick wooden or brick wall?

The (sic!) was to emphasise the presence of the tram lines, something that you missed completely. They make road construction orders of magnitude more difficult.

Orders of magnitude ? A 600 mm RC slab on grade ? Get an engineering degree.

routine 30 degrees below zero in winter

Do you actually know where St Petersburg is ? Get a map, too

Originally Posted by solaris

The (sic!) was to emphasise the presence of the tram lines, something that you missed completely. They make road construction orders of magnitude more difficult.

Orders of magnitude ? A 600 mm RC slab on grade ? Get an engineering degree.

I could. Costs only a few grand. Is it how you got it?

[quote:26dcp38r]routine 30 degrees below zero in winter

Do you actually know where St Petersburg is ? Get a map, too[/quote:26dcp38r]
I don't need that. I spend a lot of time in that city. In winters, too.

Any other biased comparisons?

I could. Costs only a few grand. Is it how you got it?

Unfortunately not. Most places you have to actually do some work....

don't need that. I spend a lot of time in that city. In winters, too.

Any other biased comparisons?

Biased comparisons ? That's rich from someone claiming that St P is 'routinely 30 degrees below', and who says he's been there - or does anything below zero feel cold to you ?

Originally Posted by solaris

Biased comparisons ? That's rich from someone claiming that St P is 'routinely 30 degrees below', and who says he's been there - or does anything below zero feel cold to you ?

http://meteo.infospace.ru/wcarch/html/e ... 2&x=10&y=9

31-Dec-2002: -26.0
01-Jan-2003: -26.5
02-Jan-2003: -23.8
03-Jan-2003: -24.1
04-Jan-2003: -21.2
05-Jan-2003: -21.0
06-Jan-2003: -25.4
07-Jan-2003: -26.5

25 below zero and colder, in the city centre. In the northern part, it was a few degrees colder. And that was just a week that I remember it was cold, you can find many such weeks (and colder) any year. The average winter temperature may be higher, but there are a few weeks each year when it is very cold. Another nasty aspect of St. Petersburg's weather is that everything freezes and then thaws dozens of times, which essentially explodes the roads from inside. Having tram lines makes it a lot worse, because the thermal expansion of rails is significantly greater than that of the adjacent road; plus the gaps between the rails and the road are easily accessible to water.

I do not see a major difference between "-25 and colder" and "-30". I do see a major difference between "-25 and colder, wet climate" and "always above zero, dry climate".

bad manners, you need to build a few houses before you start asking dumb questions about sheetrock and plaster. What exactly is a "thick" wooden wall? Logs? Layers of boards? And the wood framing on a house IS it's skeleton. And what do you mean by plaster "attached" to a brick wall?

Originally Posted by JB

bad manners, you need to build a few houses before you start asking dumb questions about sheetrock and plaster. What exactly is a "thick" wooden wall? Logs? Layers of boards? And the wood framing on a house IS it's skeleton. And what do you mean by plaster "attached" to a brick wall?

My questions make no sense for you because you have no idea how houses are built outside the US. In the US, it is mostly sheetrock attached to a skeleton-like frame. In Europe, such frames are only used for very large buildings, not for one-family houses. The basic element of a small to average European (Russian) house is the wall, solid and thick, one-two feet thick in fact.

The basic difference between a European and an American house can be easily seen when you want to attach something heavy to a wall. In Europe, all you need to do is make sure there are no wires or pipes where you're going to drill or simply pound a nail in.

Having tram lines makes it a lot worse, because the thermal expansion of rails is significantly greater than that of the adjacent road

http://www.azom.com/details.asp?ArticleID=1317

For your enlightenment....

'....Steel and concrete complement each other in many ways. For example, they have similar coefficients of thermal expansion so preventing the problems the Romans had with bronze.....'

Since when are the intra-city roads made of concrete entirely? Engineering degree, eh?

Well bad manners why don't you come on over to my Moscow neighborhood and tell all those guys putting up wood frames that they don't know how to build a house in Russia. I'm sure they'll be glad to rebuild those (large, single family homes) according to your directions.

Have your vision checked, JB. Being unable to distinguish between a house and a summer cabin should be alarming for you. Being unable to distinguish between a paper screen and a two-foot wall should be even more so.

On your reccomendation I had my vision checked, and was certified by the doctor as definately able to tell the difference between a house for year round use and a summer dacha. But I'm still looking for those paper houses you keep talking about. Maybe you could post a picture?

Just watch the news over the weekend. I'm sure Frances intends to show us all exactly how strong and well-built American houses are when she hits Florida tomorrow

Maybe we could take a load of TNT and place a few sticks in the strongest houses in 25 different countries and prove once and for all that nobody can build a house that is indestructable!

You do have a problem with your vision, JB. Or else I don't know how you could miss the bit about wall thickness. Well, there is an alternative, though. It is either your vision or your brains.