Thread: I found a Russian supermarket in my town!

Thanks for the advice! Well I don't think I have a "language bump". It's more like I'm language lazy. I don't have a problem with pronunciation usually, it's the memorization that gets to me. There is NO WAY I could memorize fifty words in one day then move on to the next fifty the next, and actually remember even three of the prior fifty. I'm not exagerating (did I spell that right?) either! Hey, maybe I'll try it though and see what happens.

Unless you're a genius, most people can't remember 50 words a day(and recall them at a good rate) either. I would probably have trouble remembering 15 a day by rote memorization - not only memorizing them, but picking out which words are important! Perhaps try reading news articles, you could try BBC Russian. Read for the general idea, and if you absolutely cannot understand a sentence, underline the word and number it, write it down somewhere, and look it up later. Then reread the article trying not to use your definitions paper. Of course after a couple times you'll be able to read it simply because you rememebr what it said, but perhaps you could come back after a couple days.

Try finding a Russian penpal or even better, someone to speak to with. Ask them to correct your mistakes, and when talking with them try intentionally to make mistakes. I don't mean write things wrong, but steer your language towards where you're uncomfortable and know what you're saying is probably wrong. That way they can fix that. Try integrating new words you have learned.

At this point I can read novels fairly well(for general meaning) but I don't remember sitting down every day and remembering several words - I certainly don't have the patience or motivation(or memorizing skills ). It just takes reading a lot, and eventually you see the same words over and over again. I remember reading my first book, and in the first half of the book I wore my dictionary to tatters looking up everything. But gradually I had to use it less and less because I kept seeing the same words, and I suppose I increased my vocabulary a couple hundred words over the month or two it took me to read it. Well, it's not as much as 2 months * 30 days * 50 words = 3000 words that Jasper would have learned in the same time , but it is a good result for a month or so of work if you're not a good rote memorizer. I have read you need about 10,000 words to understand a language proficiently(at that rate, Jasper, you can be finished with Russian in half a year ).

I think at one point I did go through a "flashcard" phase, but as I said, I'm too lazy to practice. A lot of times the main problem is not learning but remembering the word. I think the best way to remember what was learned is to use whichever words/constructions you've learned while speaking or writing to someone.

Bravo about the chicken, fork, plate thing Jasper -- that has been one of my pet peeves about some of these "teach it yourself" books. For whatever reason I picked up a book on Farsi (haven't touched it in a year) and the first few lessons taught me how to say "builder" and "window". Hey, I still remember them!!! I think builder was "banna" and "window" is "shashesh." Unfortunately, the writer neglected to teach me how to say "Hello" or "How are you" in those first lessons

Well, Pravit, I'm no genius, that's for sure. I couldn't remember (and apply) even ten scientific formulas, or learn 50 pages of biology if my life depended on it. I know you do occasionally get these freaks of nature (idiots savants) who can do one specific thing brilliantly and suck at the rest (including social relations etc.). I hope I'm not one of them!

I didlearn 50 words a day, but only after a couple of months of relaxedly learning basic grammar. Then, the next day, I'd check myself on all these 50 words, and of course learn 50 more. And the following week my father would check those same 50 words. A few days ago, I repeated all 2000 words (I had nothing better to do ), and made only 20 mistakes. That's a 99% success rate! I was rather chuffed with myself after that...

at that rate, Jasper, you can be finished with Russian in half a year

I'm trying, yes. But only after I finish my first coursebook, start work on a comprehensive Dutch one, read through the soviet era Temp-kurs, understand all the Robert Beard exercises...

And what you said about BBC Russian is right. It's the perfect way to begin reading topical news texts. Not as difficult as 'real' Russian newssites.

chuffed? from where do you hail, friend?

that's really amazing that you learned 2000 words with such little error! When I was reading my first book I wrote down every word I had to look up in a little notebook. I think all in all there were lets see, one word per line, 30 lines per page, and i filled up two 70-page notebooks. 2 * 70 * 30 = 4200 words. The problem is, I don't know how many of those I actually remember( I didn't go over them the next day, which is a good idea).
I'll see tonight how many I remember, but it's certainly not near 4,000! It could be they're words I can understand if I see them in a written sentence, but alone I probably wouldn't understand them.

Your dad is a great fellow! It's always nice to have someone to help you out with language learning.

How do you go about picking the words to rememebr? Is it by a frequency dictionary?

I've just read an article on memorizing in general and on memorizing foreign words in particular. They say that the short-term memory can hold only from 2 to 26 objects for 20 minutes or so. But these objects not necessarily must be separate words, this may be phrases so you can use the limited number of items best. And one of the most important thing is to have a break, that is to have a rest after memorizing those units in your short-ter meory. The reast ust be no less then 10 minutes or so. Then you may repeat the words. And you must repeat them in 24 hours also. It is better when those words in one phrase or just a combination make a vivid lively picture together, with motion and not only a static picture. You may also imagine some connection between the foreign words and those in your language that resemble them in sounds, however stupid it were. And make a lively picture of course.
But tha fact is that no one tried to memorize words in such manner all the time. Sooner or later everybody returns to an old rote.

P.S.
А как там насчёт русского супермаркета?

I once did the "associate word with word in your own language, however stupid the association" thing when I was learning Arabic. I think that's what "unforgettablelanguages.com" uses. However there's only so many stupid associations you can come up with before they get so complex you forget what the association was, that and you're using your own language as a crutch.

Examples of my associations(yes, they're dumb)

maSna' - factory
maSna' sounds like dasani. Dasani has factories.
tujjaar- merchants
tujjaar sounds like two jars. Merchants often have jars.
suug- market
suug sounds like sock. You can buy socks at a market. Sometimes.
shurTi - policeman
shurTi sounds like shirt. Policemen wear shirts.

The first few times it works well, because you're appaled at the ridiculous association you made. But after 20-30, you forget which association went to which word. And you're really, really pushing it.

Humorously, I still remember what "fruit" in swahili is. It was when I visited unforgettablelanguages, that was their 'proof' I wouldn't forget. Fruit is "Matunda." Because you put a mat under fruit.

Originally Posted by JB

пирожки и пиво in the park (сокольники) =heaven!

Интересно, а где-нибудь еще, кроме как в России пиво с рыбой пьют? И в таких количествах? ))

@Propp: I don't think that theory applies to everyone. Some people memorize words far more efficiently, some (e.g. dyslects) a lot slower. My little sister (who is dyslexic) can't remember 10 words a week.

@Pravit: Yeah, my father really helped me a lot. He learnt the Cyrillic alphabet (though he did study Greek at university) just for me. (That's why he's dreading the day I decide to learn Chinese ) And yup, my father is english...
The frequency Dictionary I used is the one by Nicholas Brown (look for it on Amazon). Perfect for both beginners and post-graduate scholars of Russian.

Originally Posted by russkayalove

And that for someone who has only studied the language for 5 months!

How did you learn the language in five months Trust me, I really want to learn russian, but I can't seem to get myself past the alphabet and a few grettings and verbs. Every time I sit down to study it, I can't seem to focus but maybe for 10 minutes at the most. What do you do, you read the word, and look at its translation? Then what do you do once you read the word, you repeat it fifty times over and over again? I'll do this and forget it by the next day. What am I doing wrong!? I've made notecards, gotten books, posted little sticky pads on everything in my apartment with the russian name on it. I'm freaking out b/c my boyfriends grandparents come to viset from Russia in two months, and they speak absolutely no english. I've been slowly trying to learn for like a year now, and am not progressing very much. How can I learn alot fast, like in two months, any tips?

Welcome to Russia!!! За два месяца чему хочешь научат!!

Originally Posted by Alexander

Originally Posted by JB

пирожки и пиво in the park (сокольники) =heaven!

Интересно, а где-нибудь еще, кроме как в России пиво с рыбой пьют? И в таких количествах? ))

Dried fish is completely alien to the American diet and no matter how many times I've tried I can't gag it down. So every time my boyfriend tries to get me to eat it he just gets a double portion for himself. (maybe that's why he keeps buying it for me? ) So when it's hot we have beer with nuts, when it's cool weather we have пирожки или блины с сыром with one or two beers.

I like dried fish. Dried squid too, is great, but if you eat too much your stomach will get mad at you. Or fermented bean curd! Yeah, you've got to have that.

Fermented bean curd? I've never even heard of it much less tried it .(It would take a lot of beers to get me to try it!) Dried calamari is OK and I can nibble on that if there is nothing else to eat with beer, but I prefer nuts. Most Russian fish dishes are made with strong flavored fish such as mackerel which I can't stomach. We eat a lot of fresh fish in California but it is usually very mild, never salted, dried,or packed in oil.

Originally Posted by JB

Fermented bean curd? I've never even heard of it much less tried it .(It would take a lot of beers to get me to try it!) Dried calamari is OK and I can nibble on that if there is nothing else to eat with beer, but I prefer nuts. Most Russian fish dishes are made with strong flavored fish such as mackerel which I can't stomach. We eat a lot of fresh fish in California but it is usually very mild, never salted, dried,or packed in oil.

А что Вы имеете ввиду, когда пишите "fresh fish"? То есть в Калифорнии едят сырую рыбу, как и у нас в Сибири? У нас популярностью пользуются два блюда из сырой рыбы: "малосол" и "строганина". "Малосол" - это свежая рыба, которую 2-3 часа назад посолили, поперчили, добавили лук, чеснок и немного растительного масла. Правда "малосол" не подают в ресторанах, т.к. нет гарантии от некоторых заболеваний (самое неприятное - opisthorchosis). А вот "строганину" подают практически во всех ресторанах. Это просто порезанная тонкими ломтиками мороженная рыба (whitefish or salmon). Солишь ее уже сам, по-вкусу. Немножко перчику... Ммммммм Уже слюнки потекли... Мммммм И к пиву она хороша, и водочку закусить любо-дорого, пока горячее не принесли )). Хотя конечно - все на любителя. У меня жена до сих пор даже запаха не переносит.

Я думаю, что он имеет в виду сыру, которую только что ловили, но они ее готовят. Но я знаю, что в Калифорнии можно есть японский "Суши." Я не думаю, что есть американская пища, в которой ешь сырую рыбу.

Jasper, could you please proovide for me the name ofthat dictionary. I would like to buy one. thank you.

chorus: NICHOLAS J. BROWN'S LEARNER'S DICTIONARY!