Thread: Если мы русские...

Something has been plaguing me for quite some time about what exactly is "Russian", and what isn't. I have not known (and thus not asked) how to word this, and i still don't, so i will just try my best. I will show some examples of what i mean, and explain why i am, at the least confused. Then, it's up to the russians to decide.

What is a "Russian" ? There are many people at my school/ in my neighborhood who are from ukraine, maldovia, kazakhstan,beloruss, you name it... And they all just consider themselves "russian". There is this one girl i know who is from estonia, (a country which i hear, only 40% percent of speaks russian) and she considers herself "Russian". Now, is she russian only because she can speak it... and she was born in a country where people speak it ? Even if she has no real slavic blood in her? What about people in kazakhstan, who are probly from chinses or kazakh decent, but grow up speaking russian and living in a former USSR country. Are they "russian" ? What about, for example, the people in Русский размер. They even say "We live in peter, but check our passports, we are from kazakhstan".

I have also met many russians who say "No outsiders can ever become russian because of our history, it's just too great and too confusing". Well, that's cool, but how many russians were alive 100 years ago or 200 years ago to see this ? How many russians even fully understand their own history ?

So is it fair to say no foriegner can be american because they will just never understand what out forfathers went through to beat the evil king of england.

Maybe it's being slavic that is "russian" ? So, in this case people in former yugoslavia are russians too ? people in kosovo, serbia, etc. Hell, i even bet there are some slavs in northern greece. Also, poland, they are slavic, but they speak polish.

The ESL teacher in my school is from kazakhstan, but you would never ever know she speaks russian by looking at her. Im sure people that hear her speaking russian think she is chinese or something (To most uneducated americans, every asain is "Chinese".) So, she has 2 or 3 kids, who i am sure look just as asain as she does, they are 3 or 4 (Born in america) but grow up speaking russian. Does that make them russian ?

I ask because, it just seems (to me) anyways, that there is no real definition of somebody that is "russian".

So, i have come to the conclusion that

If people who wern't even born in russia, and you are not slavic, but you grew up in a russian speaking country, and prefer the title "russian" to anything else, you can be russian. Could this apply to people from the west too ? Why not ? Plenty of people speak russian in america. If was offered a job in russia, and was speaking russian, and grew up (since i was 14 anyways) speaking russian, in a russian speaking (yes, america is now somewhat russian speaking) country, would it be acceptable to tell people that i am "russian" ? I mean, look at my passport , i was not born in russia ! but, neither is The "russian" ESL teacher at my school, or the wanna be estonian down the street, or any of the members of the group "Русский размер" yes, the Russian size. But hey, nobody seems to have a problem with that and calling them "russian".

So what's the big deal ?

Looks like you don't understand what nationality is, if you're asking what is "Russian". To be Russian one needs to be Russian ethnically. If non-Russian lives in Russia, it doesn't make him Russian. If non-Russian speaks Russian language, it doesn't make him Russian either.

BTW, in our language different words are used for ethnicity - русский, for Russian citezenship - россиянин, and for person who consider Russian his native language - русскоязычный (все русские, за редким исключением, - русскоязычны, но не все русскоязычные - русские).

Alex Ivanov is absolutely right. That Russian teacher of yours would not be seen as русская in Russia. That Estonian girl may be seen as русская if she is ethnically Russian. A Uknranian will be украинец, not русский. Mind you, there may be an ethnic Russian coming from Ukraine - the opposite is also true -
we have украинцы who live in Russia (due to migration, etc.), but they aren't called русские. A Scotsman living in England will not be called an Englishman on account of his speaking English as his first language, likewise a Georgian will not be русский just because he speaks Russian fluently - he will be a грузин. He may be a Russian citizen, but he will never be Russian as русский - and he will not want to be called русский either.

yeah, I think you have over done it there dogboy, by your terms I could call myself Russian because my great-great-great grandfather was russian (and left), and as much as I would like to be able to get away with it, I doubt I could

:P

Originally Posted by Androvsky

yeah, I think you have over done it there dogboy, by your terms I could call myself Russian because my great-great-great grandfather was russian

Русский пра-пра-прадедушка как раз делает человека русским. Хотя бы чуть-чуть.

Originally Posted by Alex_Ivanov

Originally Posted by Androvsky

yeah, I think you have over done it there dogboy, by your terms I could call myself Russian because my great-great-great grandfather was russian

Русский пра-пра-прадедушка как раз делает человека русским. Хотя бы чуть-чуть.

Sorry, I am only up to chapter 6 :P

Did you say:

Russian great-great grandfather who at one time been made a russian.


And then:

But still a tiny tiny bit.

A Russian great-great-great grandfather makes a person Russian. At least a little bit.

I wasn't sure how to take the "как раз" into English. Maybe this would work better: A Russian great-great-great grandfather is just what makes a person Russian. At least a little bit.

Originally Posted by Pravit

A Russian great-great-great grandfather makes a person Russian. At least a little bit.

I wasn't sure how to take the "как раз" into English. Maybe this would work better: A Russian great-great-great grandfather is just what makes a person Russian. At least a little bit.

the 'как раз' is what through me a little.
A little bit russian, eih? Well, atleast I can get away with something

Of course it doesn't. If I have a Portugese great-great-great grandfather, am I Portugese? Following that logic Push King wasn't really Russian, but he certainly was. At least by my standards.

Dog, I know a set of twins at school from Lithuania. Annie says shes russian if anyone asks, to her its "just easier". Alex tells every one he's from Lithuania, and he has to explain to everyone where Lithuania is. Maybe they just want to save some breath when talking to people. Thats how she sees it, she hates, I mean loaths having to explain to people that Lithuania isn't Russia, and she isn't Russian. Alex would die before he said he was Russian.

Sorry, double post.

Who the hell is Push King? Are you another victim of Word's "auto-correction", which should probably be called "auto-aggravation"? Did you mean Пушкин?

Originally Posted by bad manners

Who the hell is Push King? Are you another victim of Word's "auto-correction", which should probably be called "auto-aggravation"? Did you mean Пушкин?

Push King = Пушкин (это я испражнялся в ослоумии)

If only they realised how many of those "Russians" are actually Russian... It feels like at least 50% of the "Russians" they are in contact with and base their stereotypes on aren't Russian at all. But do our ignorami care...

The formula of Russians is simple: you are russian if you look like slavonian and speak russian or if you do not look like slavonian, speak russian and have at least one russian ancestor. I got a girlfriend , she is 100% tatar but her step-father was russian and all her friends are mostly russian, her husband is ukrainian and she's identified herself as russian. Really she looks totally russian.

I said the same thing long time ago. One must look like a Russian, speak like a Russian, and behave like a Russian. I am not sure about the exact order, though.

Originally Posted by JJ

I got a girlfriend , she is 100% tatar but her step-father was russian and all her friends are mostly russian, her husband is ukrainian and she's identified herself as russian.

Tut, tut, and does her husband know about her bedroom pranks with you? Well done, serves the husband well, next time he'll be paying more attention to that wife of his.

Originally Posted by bad manners

I said the same thing long time ago. One must look like a Russian, speak like a Russian, and behave like a Russian. I am not sure about the exact order, though.

Well yeah, but how are they to know what a Russian looks like if they won't listen to us and continue calling whoever speaks Russian "Russian"? I think we need to start a counter-offensive. Here we go - everyone who speaks English as his/her native language is English. Who the hell are all those Australians, Canadians, Americans? Do you know anything about the Scottish? The Welsh, the Welsh, I'm sure I've heard the word before - what does it mean? Did I forget the Irish? An easily made mistake, innit - after all they are all English. Those are just fancy names for one generic term - the English. The English traditionally wear skirts bowler hats and eat hot dingoes.

I think it's harder for the people outside of the USA to understand what i am asking. In america, anyone who comes from any former USSR state and speaks russian considers themselves russian. Maybe tambakis is right... they just do this for simplicity, because not evey american knows where Azerbaijan is, so just saying russia makes it easyer (although, lot's of americans do not know where russia is either).

VM, they have diffrent cultures. In Russia Баба-Яга, Кощей, Иван-царевич, "на дворе трава, на траве дрова" etc. are the same in Smolensk and Vladivostok. The folklore, superstitions, kid's games and even pronouncation more or less the same in Russia e.g. I cannot hear the diffrence between Saratov's, Moskow's and Smolensk's pronouncation. Well, maybe you did not read сказы Бажова and you do not know where Полевской is and who is Данила-мастер, but I'm sure if I say "маленький мальчик нашёл пулемёт" you can finish this phrase.