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Hello.
As I know you can chouse the name of your saint patron by any reason: the day you will be baptisized usually has several patrons, you can be named after any famous saint or clerical person of the past, eventually you can chouse any favorite ortodoxal name which fits or which the priest will advise you.
Vasiliy is Bazil as I know and has nothing with William.
William is Willy, Will - [Uiliam/Viliam, Uil/Vil, Villi] - I would say it sounds close to Ilia/Ilja in Russian.
Geoffrey is Efrem - old and very rare today (but very good) Russian name.
Patronim from Efrem is Efremovich.
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You better forget the differense between Jewish and Russian.
Maria is Jewish
Fedor or Alexander are Greek names
and Yulia is Roman
But they are now Russian.
If you are looking for the paggan Slavic names (and you believe that they are Russian) you will eventually see that they are not Ortodoxal names. You have to chouse. If you wish to have the name like Borislav or Cviatopolk - you can not be baptisized with such a name. Russian is not equal with Slavic - remember that! Russian culture is multicultural it is a mixture, every period has its trace in its history and most of Russian names today are Greek, Roman and Jewish.
Anna, Elizaveta, Maria (and I guess Ioan) are Jewish and the most frequent names in Russia.
Russian names have Jewish, Roman, Greek, and even Turk origins and you can not help it.
The full name of Iliya is Iliya.
I did not tell you that Iliya means William in Russian. Read atantivelly.
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Ok. William means the one who was wanted. It is an old english (if not even german) name and it does not have any equivalent in Russian. But there are some rare and weird Slavic names (I can presume that they sound like the name Norbert for the English ear). There is a thread somewhere in the forum about Slavic names, but I can not recall where it is.
There is a feamale name Ждана (the one who was long expected), but I did not hear about such male names.
If you wish to be Daniil (I believe it is a name which can be given after the babti...(I can't write this word properly, neither the other words) into the Ortodoxal church. There are many Ortodoxal priests with such a name) Efremovich,then your friends could call you Danila (which is well spread for this name).
Full name Daniil Efremovich [last name]
The formal and polite Daniil Efremovich
Informal polite - Danila Efremovich
or just Danila
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ефремов,_Данила_Ефремович
Here is the article abou your тёзка (the one who has the same name with you).
It is written in Russian though. But is tells that he lived in 18'th century and was an honoured kazak's capitan.
no- william is not of english origin, its of latin origin i believe (ex: william the conqueror of normandy) in spanish its guillermo, i think in greek (yes i know, not latin) its Vasilarose (Which is why i incorrectly assumed Vasily means William in russian), i am pretty sure Vasilorose is greek for william because there is a greek guy i know who always calls this guy i know (named william) vasilarose!
by the way, jeffrey now is almost a purely english name to the best of my knowledge- it originates from Geofrey which in turn originated from the old english Godfrey, i am curious- how did that get translated into Efrem in Russian?
http://www.behindthename.com/name/william
It's a Germanic name, so there's no Russian equivalent.
Can I just ask why do you want to change your name? It always wonders me why people who don't live in the country, and cannot speak the language want to change their name into Russian, or any other, for that matter.
Or is that a requirement for joining the church?
I don't think it's a requirement of joining the church.
I don't get it either, people will be like "where's your name from", "It's Russian", "So you're Russian?", "....no.", "Riiiiiiight", "I just randomly changed my name to a Russian name", ".... :o "
And yes, Jeffrey, Geoffrey (the more traditional spelling), derived from Godffrey, is Germanic, meaning roughly "God's peace". The German analogue is Gottfried.
I suppose the Russian version of 'God's peace' would be Bogomir:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bogomir_Korsov
That's how they translated the name of the guy in that wikipedia article.
Radomir and Boromir, Frodo, Gendalf, Legolas...
When you baptisize you have to take the custom Ortodoxal name.
Bogomir can never be taken while baptisizing into the Ortodoxal Russian Church.
i resent your ignorance of the matter- first of all i am russian american, second of all i have ample reason to change my name and there is absolutely nothing random about it, the fact is you have no idea who i am, what i do- or what i do it for. so i dont like it when you assume things you have absolutely no clue about, calling my endeavors random, and making blatant accuasations.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
i have alot of reasons for changing my name- at least 5 of which i can think of off the top of my head, some reasons are private, others not so much. frankly- i identify as russian, even though i may be from america, my name was perferated at coney island when some of my family first arrived in this country- i also have many private reasons for changing my name which i will obviously not go into.Quote:
Originally Posted by kamka
It's not a requirement, but has many reasons- the strongest (IMO) of which being based in Christ's renaming of his disciples. For me the name change would serve as a constant reminder of Who I owe everything to.
As for a patronymic I personally wouldn't try to make something up. It's one thing to adopt your patron saint's name, that has reasons... but realistically trying to create a patronymic just doesn't make a whole lot of sense. We all try to find different ways to explore/celebrate our cultural heritage though so not knocking your idea, just my two cents.
As for name conversions I never understood it. A name is a name as far as I'm concerned. I remember when I took Spanish and someone told me "Diego" was the Spanish equivalent of "James," so I used that in class- but you ask other people and they laugh at that idea. I guess finding names of same meaning is one thing but James is James, Vladimir is Vladimir, and Diego is Diego. <- My opinion! I know a lot of people have different ones on this! Another example: In Russian I don't say "Я учусь в витворте университете," because I don't go to school at "vetvort" university, I go to school at Whitworth University (I say, "Я учусь в Whitworth университете"). :?
As for selecting a Patron Saint, as a convert I'd talk to your priest but I think it's pretty much up to you. Mine has particular importance in that it was largely through studying him (St. Vladimir) that I decided to look into Orthodoxy.
well i speak spanish fluently, and Jaime is the equivalent of james not Diego to the best of my knowledge, and i completely agree with you- i am trying to find a name that means something, i am not just making a name out of thin air, it has to mean something to me. i am trying to build my patrinomic based on a russified version of my fathers name. what is your advice on what i should do? i actually dont plan on changing my first name, just adding a middle and moddifying my last name. thanks for your input, i appreciate any insight i can get on the matter.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volodymyr
Personally I wouldn't change your last name. For just realistic reasons, you ever apply for another job you gotta specify that you changed your name, they are going to ask why, and "personal reasons," is not only not going to fly with them... it is going to throw up a red flag. Middle name is much easier to explain, particularly if it reflects your patron saint.
You've missed the point:Quote:
Originally Posted by Volodymyr
When we, as foreigners with foreign names, go to Russia, we use our English name, because that's our name.
So James, would be Джеймс, not the Russian equivalent Иван.
However Tamerlane wants an actual proper Russian name (with patronymic and surname), and wants the Russian version of his name.
Furthermore, many English sounds don't exist in Russian, so if we pronounce our names exactly as they are in English, Russians have trouble understanding them and most importantly repeating them.
Imagine if your surname was Whitworth... the W, i, o, r, and th sounds in that word do not appear in Russian and a Russian without good English pronounciation (i,e, who's studied the language for a while) would be able to repeat it. How do you expect a Russian to say / understand that. So we adapt our pronuncation of the English name to assist the Russians to understand it, and also so they can also say it.
When I was living in Russia one of my friends was called Heather. When we first arrived and Russians asked her what her name was she'd me like "Меня зовут Heather". This usually resulted in a blank look from the Russians and they couldn't pronounce anything close to it. So over time she learnt to be known and and call herself Xьёзер (although personally I'd have gone for Xэзер) which is how the name was rendered on her Visa in cyrillic.
Even if I pronounced my name (Gregory) whith English Rs, some people couldn't understand it; simply rolling my R make it easy for them to understand, say.
Иван is not the equivalent for James. It's the equivalent for John.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
But he's not going to Russia, thats one thing- though I would still tell them my name is James. I think its unfortunate we put almost everything into English these days but I wouldn't expect ethnic Russians to come up with some American name just to make it easier for me.
Let me put it another way. Patrynomics are basically uniquely Russian, I know for a fact some couldn't care less, and others would be offended that an American had created one for himself. I have no interest in getting into a debate whether they should or not- but as far as I see it thats the case. So like I said, I personally wouldn't try and create a patronymic, if only for that reason.
And I do understand where you are coming from Tamerlane. I have struggled to figure out how to participate in my Russian heritage since I first found out my family was Russian when I was 5 or 6. It's not easy to this day, to some people you say your Grandpa is from Ukraine and you are definitely "Russian," others laugh and think you are weird for trying to celebrate a heritage like that (two or three generations back).
Again, Volodymyr, you've not read /understand what I've written. Tamerlane has specifically asked for a Russian name, if he wanted to keep his English name, then he wouldn't have to change his name (read the title of this thread).
I don't know what you mean about "everyone putting everything into English these days", that's a very vague statement and doesn't seem to refer to anything anyone's said in this post.
In fact your whole last post doesn't make sense.
And regarding your grandpa from Ukraine; I'm not sure if I've understood you right, but having one grandparent who is Russian (was he actually Russian and not Ukrainian?) doesn't make you "definately Russian". That would make you 1/4 Russian, unless you have additional Russian heritage from other grandparents.
lol there are so many holes in your arguement- first of all how do you know i am not going to russia? for all you know, I AM! secondly, its simply not true that everything is put into english, my name has been put into chinese- and russian (my first name is already russian, the name changing is regarding my middle and last name)Quote:
Originally Posted by Volodymyr
Okay but I mean immigrating, in which case I figured you would have stated that (most people don't change their name when they go on vacation :wink:). What I mean about everything going into English is stuff like "Иван" becoming "Ivan". What I'm saying is I know it happens, but that I personally don't expect Russians to come up with a friendly American name, meanwhile I'd hope they don't expect Americans to come up with a friendly Russian name. Names are names. Like I said, I know there are tons of reasons certain names translate into other names, I'm just saying IN MY OPINION. When I went to Russia the only translation I went through (my name) was from James to Джаймс.
Like I said for a variety of reasons I wouldn't try to make a patrynomic.
Oh and Taty: What I meant by some say that makes you "definitely Russian" is that you are definitely part Russian, others say at 1/4 that doesn't count for anything :wink:.
I'm not trying to start an argument or anything with anyone, I'm just saying in my opinion. Like I said we all try to figure out how to celebrate our culture our own ways. If you want to make yourself a patrynomic go for it. But this is the internets, its all about sharing ideas :mrgreen:.
But you said you don't like how everything goes into English... Иван is Ivan...Quote:
What I mean about everything going into English is stuff like "Иван" becoming "Ivan".
Also James is Джеймс.
ай is the sound in time, bye, cry
+1.Quote:
Originally Posted by TATY
x3Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaya
I bet there is a girl. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlane
That might be a good grammatical translation or whatever but they are not pronounced the same unless I'm missing something. (Ivan and Иван)
I've seen like 4 different spellings for "James" in Cyrillic. I figured I would look at my Visa to find a definitive one and the consulate entered it as Джэймс, which I had yet to see so no help there :shout:.
Which is wrong. :) Traditional transliteration for James is Джеймс.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volodymyr
Now what?Quote:
Originally Posted by Volodymyr
+1.Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
Но многим иностранцам в подобных случаях, увы, нравится именно «э».
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zaya
To write Иван in English it has to be "Ivan". English people may pronounce it incorrectly, e.g. like Ivan, instead of the correct ee-van, but that's just English speakers' ignorance of correct Russian pronunciation.Quote:
Originally Posted by Volodymyr
It's the same with Vladimir; most English speakers pronouce it Vladimir, when with the correct stress it should be Vladimir. Basically you seem to expect that English speakers should be able to pronounce Russian names with perfect Russian pronunciation, and that Russian speakers should be able to pronounce English names with perfect English pronunciation. Clearly you have no idea what you're talking about.
No its the fact that no one has any interest in learning how to pronounce it correctly. It's not like I'm out there making a fool of myself by pronouncing it correctly, because everyone expects you to pronounce it the butchered way. Obviously no one is going to learn how to pronounce everything properly :fool".
lol... i wish it were so.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ramil
I bet there is a man.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlane
yes its you! :rose:Quote:
Originally Posted by xRoosterx
O rly же? Or is it really this guy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlane
http://www.zhizn.ru/upimg/foto2/35715.jpg
Case closed.
xRoosterx, ты первый начал.
Нечего теперь вредничать.
:lol:
as a patrinomic- would it be Villiamovich or Viliamovich? and would it be appropriate to make the patrinomic to honor a particular person as opposed to using the fathers name? also regarding last names, would the end part of a laste name be sky or ski? such as Dostoevsky or Arlovski?Quote:
Originally Posted by Leof
To choose between Vill- and Vil- you should discard latin letters and write your father's name in cyrillic.Quote:
Originally Posted by Tamerlane
If it's Вилльям then you should use double 'l', if it's Вильям, then use only one 'l'.
No, your patronymic should point at your father. You can change surname to honor somebody. My surname, for example, is not the same with my grandfather's since my grandma changed her own surname and her children's (my father's and uncle's) after him as a birthday present. You can change the patronymic, I suppose, since this all is, after all, a bit artificial, but I don't see the point. A patronymic should have your father's name in it.Quote:
and would it be appropriate to make the patrinomic to honor a particular person as opposed to using the fathers name?
Again, it's all -ский in Russian. The Russians use cyrillic letters, remember. The rules of transliteration still require to use -sky.Quote:
also regarding last names, would the end part of a laste name be sky or ski? such as Dostoevsky or Arlovski?