Thread: Can someone help me pronounce this?? :(

[quote=TATY][quote=Rtyom][quote=TATY][quote=Rtyom][quote=chaika]I speak middle-American English (grew up in Illinois), and the first syllable in "survive" sounds exactly like the vowel in "sir".

Can you say "Yoda"? Put an /f/ in front and an /r/ at the end - voil

And now train yourself and make a recording of my name---firstly incorrect, then correct.

Pleeeeeaaaaase.

Артьом, это Льова. Ты всьо правильно сказал!

И Тьома тоже...

The first one is:

Фьёдор / Фьйодор.

After a consonant Ё = ьо
Just as Я = ья, Е = ьэ etc.

Фьо and Фё are exactly the same sounds.

From Wikipedia:

Ё, Йо и Ьо
В некоторых заимствованных словах для записи сочетания фонем /jo/ используются сочетания знаков «ЙО» или «ЬО»:

«Йо» в начале слов («йод», «йота», «йогурт», «Йорк», «йога» и др.) или после гласных («койот», «район», «майор», «мейоз» и др.).
«О» после мягкого знака: «батальон», «бульон», «миньон», «сеньор», «гильотина», «павильон», «шампиньон», «компаньон» и др.

Не-а.

Ё = йо
Я = йа
Е = йэ

It is known for any schooler in Russia.

As you (must) know, ь softens the preceding consonant. Thus, it doesn't affect anything else, so clusters with ь and ё sound differently.

Just make a recording to assure me you know how it sounds. Maybe you explained it to yourself wrongly, however know everything in the world.

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Не-а.

Ё = йо
Я = йа
Е = йэ

It is known for any schooler in Russia.

As you (must) know, ь softens the preceding consonant. Thus, it doesn't affect anything else, so clusters with ь and ё sound differently.

Just make a recording to assure me you know how it sounds. Maybe you explained it to yourself wrongly, however know everything in the world.

At the beginning of a word, after a ь/ъ, й or vowel,
Я, Е, Ё, Ю, = иа, йэ, йо, йо йу.

After a consonant they are: ьа, ьэ, ьо, ьу

Яна = Йана
Дядя = Дьадьа (не дйадйа)

Ё in её is not the same as Ё in фёдор.

You said

Фё and Фьо are different. But how can they be?

In Фё the Ё sotens the F, and then is pronounced O:
Soft F + O
Фь + О

In Фьо, the ь softens the Ф, and then there is O
Soft F + O
Фь + О

Стол + а ---> Стола
Рубль + а ---> [Рубльа --->] Рубля

Instrumental ending is -ом for masculine nouns:

Стол + ом ---> Столом
Рубль + ом ---> [Рубльом ---->] Рублём


Фьодор = Фь + О + Дор
Фёдор = Фь + О + Дор
Фьёдор = Фь + Йо + Дор (THIS is the first one you said in your recording)

I think the confusion here is because ь is used either before и е ё ю я or at the end of the word and never before other vowels. I think the only exсeption is the word фьорд which sounds like фйорд. So when a native speaker sees something like Фьодор he instinctively reads it as if there's ё instead о.

Okay, you caught me at йо things. I agree when and how they're read. Mea culpa for not being extensive on the issue.

TATY, even "Фёдор" and "фьорд" sound differently, whatever you would think. I think it's difficult for you to distinguish between them because you're not a native speaker of Russian. I even feel my speech apparatus works differently.

Make a recording of yourself, please.

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Okay, you caught me at йо things. I agree when and how they're read. Mea culpa for not being extensive on the issue.

TATY, even "Фёдор" and "фьорд" sound differently, whatever you would think. I think it's difficult for you to distinguish between them because you're not a native speaker of Russian. I even feel my speech apparatus works differently.

Make a recording of yourself, please.

"Фёдор" and "фьорд" sound different because Фьорд is a foreign word from Fjord, which is pronounced Фьйорд in it's original languages. This isn't a very good example.

What I am trying to say, is

Тьа = Тя
Тьэ = Те
Тьу = Тю
Тьо = Тё

This is, at the end of the day, why Russian has Я Е Ю Ё.

Originally Posted by TATY

Originally Posted by Rtyom

Okay, you caught me at йо things. I agree when and how they're read. Mea culpa for not being extensive on the issue.

TATY, even "Фёдор" and "фьорд" sound differently, whatever you would think. I think it's difficult for you to distinguish between them because you're not a native speaker of Russian. I even feel my speech apparatus works differently.

Make a recording of yourself, please.

"Фёдор" and "фьорд" shouldn't sound different.

Then you cannot pronounce them rightly!

Originally Posted by TATY

What I am trying to say, is

Тьа = Тя
Тьэ = Те
Тьу = Тю
Тьо = Тё

No, they don't. In "Тя" & etc. there is a "y" sound before the vowel (й, as Rtyom already said). The constructions you have written as their equivalents (Тьа, etc) sound Chinese to me...

Originally Posted by Moryachka

Originally Posted by TATY

What I am trying to say, is

Тьа = Тя
Тьэ = Те
Тьу = Тю
Тьо = Тё

No, they don't. In "Тя" & etc. there is a "y" sound before the vowel (й, as Rtyom already said). The constructions you have written as their equivalents (Тьа, etc) sound Chinese to me...

So you are saying Тя = Тйа?

I know an learner shouldn't argue with native speakers. But you are wrong.

The whole reason for Я Е Ё Ю being in the Russian alphabet is to replace ь + vowel after a consonant.

Ok, ok - more like Тьйа. I think that's been suggested already. But in any case, the "й" is there.

Originally Posted by Moryachka

Ok, ok - more like Тьйа. I think that's been suggested already. But in any case, the "й" is there.

From a Russian site:

Ещё 4 буквы: Ю, i, Я, Е представляют собой краткое обозначение буквосочетаний:
1.. ЬУ, ЬО, ЬА, ЬЭ после согласной, где Ь - мягкий знак - не бывает разделительным, или
2. ЙУ, ЙО, ЙА, ЙЭ в начале слова или после гласной, где Й - Йот (что никакое не И, а является звуком согласным, разделительным между гласными). Для русского языка два гласных подряд нетипичны. Такое случается не часто, - иногда - на стыке частей слова, напр., в сл. наушники. Буквы Ю, i, Я, Е являются в строгом смысле лишь обозначениям четырёх огласовок согласного звука Й.
Применение Йота позволяет обойтись лишь 24-мя буквами русского алфавита, которые можно обозначать как угодно, даже не обязательно графически (например, звуковыми сигналами морзянки).

Тьйа is how Тья is produced.

Обезьянка: ЗЬЙА
Взять: ЗЬА

In Ukrainian, there is no letter Ё so they have to use йо or ьо:

Його would be (Ёго) = Rus. его)
Йому would be (Ёму) = Rus. ему

But after a consonant:

Сьогодні would be (Сёгодні) = Rus. Сегодня
Сйого would be pronounced differently.

All I know is what I hear. Perhaps books don't agree . By the way, are you studying to be a university professor of linguistics or something? I have a copy of Introduction to Russian phonology and Word Structure, by William Hamilton, which you may have once I'm finished with it, if you like. It says it's written for third- or fourth-year college-level students of Russian.

Originally Posted by Moryachka

All I know is what I hear. Perhaps books don't agree . By the way, are you studying to be a university professor of linguistics or something? I have a copy of Introduction to Russian phonology and Word Structure, by William Hamilton, which you may have once I'm finished with it, if you like. It says it's written for third- or fourth-year college-level students of Russian.

Ж0) Cool, thanks. Yes I am very interested in all phonetics, but particularly Russian.

I'm sure linguists agree with what you hear, it's just maybe you are not 100% sure on the technical side of Russian orthography.

The whole reason for Я Е Ё Ю being in the Russian alphabet is to replace ь + vowel after a consonant

I agree with TATY. Послушайте меня, я сдала экзамен ("из"?) фонетики с пяточкой

Originally Posted by groovychick

The whole reason for Я Е Ё Ю being in the Russian alphabet is to replace ь + vowel after a consonant

I agree with TATY. Послушайте меня, я сдала экзамен ("из"?) фонетики с пяточкой

I love you.

С чем?