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Thread: Can someone help me pronounce this?? :(

  1. #21
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    [quote=TATY][quote=Rtyom][quote=TATY][quote=Rtyom][quote=chaika]I speak middle-American English (grew up in Illinois), and the first syllable in "survive" sounds exactly like the vowel in "sir".

    Can you say "Yoda"? Put an /f/ in front and an /r/ at the end - voil
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  2. #22
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    And now train yourself and make a recording of my name---firstly incorrect, then correct.

    Pleeeeeaaaaase.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  3. #23
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    Артьом, это Льова. Ты всьо правильно сказал!
    Я так думаю.

  4. #24
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    И Тьома тоже...
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  5. #25
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    The first one is:

    Фьёдор / Фьйодор.

    After a consonant Ё = ьо
    Just as Я = ья, Е = ьэ etc.

    Фьо and Фё are exactly the same sounds.

    From Wikipedia:

    Ё, Йо и Ьо
    В некоторых заимствованных словах для записи сочетания фонем /jo/ используются сочетания знаков «ЙО» или «ЬО»:

    «Йо» в начале слов («йод», «йота», «йогурт», «Йорк», «йога» и др.) или после гласных («койот», «район», «майор», «мейоз» и др.).
    «О» после мягкого знака: «батальон», «бульон», «миньон», «сеньор», «гильотина», «павильон», «шампиньон», «компаньон» и др.
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  6. #26
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    Не-а.

    Ё = йо
    Я = йа
    Е = йэ

    It is known for any schooler in Russia.

    As you (must) know, ь softens the preceding consonant. Thus, it doesn't affect anything else, so clusters with ь and ё sound differently.

    Just make a recording to assure me you know how it sounds. Maybe you explained it to yourself wrongly, however know everything in the world.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    Не-а.

    Ё = йо
    Я = йа
    Е = йэ

    It is known for any schooler in Russia.

    As you (must) know, ь softens the preceding consonant. Thus, it doesn't affect anything else, so clusters with ь and ё sound differently.

    Just make a recording to assure me you know how it sounds. Maybe you explained it to yourself wrongly, however know everything in the world.
    At the beginning of a word, after a ь/ъ, й or vowel,
    Я, Е, Ё, Ю, = иа, йэ, йо, йо йу.

    After a consonant they are: ьа, ьэ, ьо, ьу

    Яна = Йана
    Дядя = Дьадьа (не дйадйа)

    Ё in её is not the same as Ё in фёдор.

    You said

    Фё and Фьо are different. But how can they be?

    In Фё the Ё sotens the F, and then is pronounced O:
    Soft F + O
    Фь + О

    In Фьо, the ь softens the Ф, and then there is O
    Soft F + O
    Фь + О

    Стол + а ---> Стола
    Рубль + а ---> [Рубльа --->] Рубля

    Instrumental ending is -ом for masculine nouns:

    Стол + ом ---> Столом
    Рубль + ом ---> [Рубльом ---->] Рублём


    Фьодор = Фь + О + Дор
    Фёдор = Фь + О + Дор
    Фьёдор = Фь + Йо + Дор (THIS is the first one you said in your recording)
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  8. #28
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    I think the confusion here is because ь is used either before и е ё ю я or at the end of the word and never before other vowels. I think the only exсeption is the word фьорд which sounds like фйорд. So when a native speaker sees something like Фьодор he instinctively reads it as if there's ё instead о.
    "Happy new year, happy new year
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  9. #29
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    Okay, you caught me at йо things. I agree when and how they're read. Mea culpa for not being extensive on the issue.

    TATY, even "Фёдор" and "фьорд" sound differently, whatever you would think. I think it's difficult for you to distinguish between them because you're not a native speaker of Russian. I even feel my speech apparatus works differently.

    Make a recording of yourself, please.
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    Okay, you caught me at йо things. I agree when and how they're read. Mea culpa for not being extensive on the issue.

    TATY, even "Фёдор" and "фьорд" sound differently, whatever you would think. I think it's difficult for you to distinguish between them because you're not a native speaker of Russian. I even feel my speech apparatus works differently.

    Make a recording of yourself, please.

    "Фёдор" and "фьорд" sound different because Фьорд is a foreign word from Fjord, which is pronounced Фьйорд in it's original languages. This isn't a very good example.

    What I am trying to say, is

    Тьа = Тя
    Тьэ = Те
    Тьу = Тю
    Тьо = Тё

    This is, at the end of the day, why Russian has Я Е Ю Ё.
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  11. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    Quote Originally Posted by Rtyom
    Okay, you caught me at йо things. I agree when and how they're read. Mea culpa for not being extensive on the issue.

    TATY, even "Фёдор" and "фьорд" sound differently, whatever you would think. I think it's difficult for you to distinguish between them because you're not a native speaker of Russian. I even feel my speech apparatus works differently.

    Make a recording of yourself, please.

    "Фёдор" and "фьорд" shouldn't sound different.
    Then you cannot pronounce them rightly!
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    What I am trying to say, is

    Тьа = Тя
    Тьэ = Те
    Тьу = Тю
    Тьо = Тё
    No, they don't. In "Тя" & etc. there is a "y" sound before the vowel (й, as Rtyom already said). The constructions you have written as their equivalents (Тьа, etc) sound Chinese to me...
    P.S. - Исправление ошибок в моих текстах на русском всегда приветствуется

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moryachka
    Quote Originally Posted by TATY
    What I am trying to say, is

    Тьа = Тя
    Тьэ = Те
    Тьу = Тю
    Тьо = Тё
    No, they don't. In "Тя" & etc. there is a "y" sound before the vowel (й, as Rtyom already said). The constructions you have written as their equivalents (Тьа, etc) sound Chinese to me...
    So you are saying Тя = Тйа?

    I know an learner shouldn't argue with native speakers. But you are wrong.

    The whole reason for Я Е Ё Ю being in the Russian alphabet is to replace ь + vowel after a consonant.
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  14. #34
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    Ok, ok - more like Тьйа. I think that's been suggested already. But in any case, the "й" is there.
    P.S. - Исправление ошибок в моих текстах на русском всегда приветствуется

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moryachka
    Ok, ok - more like Тьйа. I think that's been suggested already. But in any case, the "й" is there.
    From a Russian site:

    Ещё 4 буквы: Ю, i, Я, Е представляют собой краткое обозначение буквосочетаний:
    1.. ЬУ, ЬО, ЬА, ЬЭ после согласной, где Ь - мягкий знак - не бывает разделительным, или
    2. ЙУ, ЙО, ЙА, ЙЭ в начале слова или после гласной, где Й - Йот (что никакое не И, а является звуком согласным, разделительным между гласными). Для русского языка два гласных подряд нетипичны. Такое случается не часто, - иногда - на стыке частей слова, напр., в сл. наушники. Буквы Ю, i, Я, Е являются в строгом смысле лишь обозначениям четырёх огласовок согласного звука Й.
    Применение Йота позволяет обойтись лишь 24-мя буквами русского алфавита, которые можно обозначать как угодно, даже не обязательно графически (например, звуковыми сигналами морзянки).

    Тьйа is how Тья is produced.

    Обезьянка: ЗЬЙА
    Взять: ЗЬА

    In Ukrainian, there is no letter Ё so they have to use йо or ьо:

    Його would be (Ёго) = Rus. его)
    Йому would be (Ёму) = Rus. ему

    But after a consonant:

    Сьогодні would be (Сёгодні) = Rus. Сегодня
    Сйого would be pronounced differently.
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  16. #36
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    All I know is what I hear. Perhaps books don't agree . By the way, are you studying to be a university professor of linguistics or something? I have a copy of Introduction to Russian phonology and Word Structure, by William Hamilton, which you may have once I'm finished with it, if you like. It says it's written for third- or fourth-year college-level students of Russian.
    P.S. - Исправление ошибок в моих текстах на русском всегда приветствуется

  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moryachka
    All I know is what I hear. Perhaps books don't agree . By the way, are you studying to be a university professor of linguistics or something? I have a copy of Introduction to Russian phonology and Word Structure, by William Hamilton, which you may have once I'm finished with it, if you like. It says it's written for third- or fourth-year college-level students of Russian.
    Ж0) Cool, thanks. Yes I am very interested in all phonetics, but particularly Russian.

    I'm sure linguists agree with what you hear, it's just maybe you are not 100% sure on the technical side of Russian orthography.
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  18. #38
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    The whole reason for Я Е Ё Ю being in the Russian alphabet is to replace ь + vowel after a consonant
    I agree with TATY. Послушайте меня, я сдала экзамен ("из"?) фонетики с пяточкой

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by groovychick
    The whole reason for Я Е Ё Ю being in the Russian alphabet is to replace ь + vowel after a consonant
    I agree with TATY. Послушайте меня, я сдала экзамен ("из"?) фонетики с пяточкой
    I love you.
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  20. #40
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    С чем?
    «И всё, что сейчас происходит внутре — тоже является частью вселенной».

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