Thread: What's it like in Gagra today?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

Even if we pretend for a couple of mins the video wasn't staged, there's a former Ukrainian citizen there who had supported the annexation of part of the territory of his country, and switched his citizenship. Of course, the officers had a few questions to ask him. But first, no one beat or raped him (following your video), and second - maybe Hanna, as a foreign tourist who was never involved in that annexation won't have such issues after all? =))

You think that the guy deserve it because he just lives in Crimea and changed citizenship since Crimea became Russian, ok. Btw, when I was in Crimea I was told by locals that if you get Russian licence plate on your car issued in Crimea and go to Ukraine by it the car bill be confiscated because Ukraine consider such licence plates "illegal". So people who drive to Ukraine from Crimea are still keep their Ukrainian licence plates. But despite that the majority of Crimean car owners already changed plates to Russian. For comparison, than Soviet Union collapsed, most people were using old Soviet licence plates for years, my dad had Soviet licence plate on his car untill 2000.
Ok, have another example, this couple were robbed:

Участники блокады на границе отобрали у крымчан и разбили дорогое шампанское [фото] | Новости Севастополя

Originally Posted by Basil77

You think that the guy deserve it because he just lives in Crimea and changed citizenship since Crimea became Russian, ok. Btw, when I was in Crimea I was told by locals that if you get Russian licence plate on your car issued in Crimea and go to Ukraine by it the car bill be confiscated because Ukraine consider such licence plates "illegal". So people who drive to Ukraine from Crimea are still keep their Ukrainian licence plates. But despite that the majority of Crimean car owners already changed plates to Russian. For comparison, than Soviet Union collapsed, most people were using old Soviet licence plates for years, my dad had Soviet licence plate on his car untill 2000.
Ok, have another example, this couple were robbed:

Участники блокады на границе отобрали у крымчан и разбили дорогое шампанское [фото] | Новости Севастополя

All of what you said just goes to show the only side who benefited from the annexation of Crimea is mainland Russia, while it's a total inconvenience for both Ukraine and Crimeans.

All of what you said just goes to show the only side who benefited from the annexation of Crimea is mainland Russia, while it's a total inconvenience for both Ukraine and Crimeans.

Current Ukrainian goverment is trying to do it's best to create problems in everyday life of ordinary people who live in Crimea (border incidents, block freshwater channel, swich off electical lines, food blockade etc.) but it certanly don't help Crimeans to love their former state. Most people there started to hate Ukraine with all their hearts because of that. If at times of referendum about 20% of Crimeans didn't want to join Russia (most of them simply didn't vote) than now very few such people left, most of them changed their opinion. I met such people there myself.

Originally Posted by Basil77

Current Ukrainian goverment is trying to do it's best to create problems in everyday life of ordinary people who live in Crimea (border incidents, block freshwater channel, swich off electical lines, food blockade etc.) but it certanly don't help Crimeans to love their former state.

If Russia wanted Crimea so badly, why wouldn't it consider solving all those technical issues prior to doing the annexation, so the peninsula wouldn't be dependent on "its former state" ?

Originally Posted by Eric C.

If Russia wanted Crimea so badly, why wouldn't it consider solving all those technical issues prior to doing the annexation, so the peninsula wouldn't be dependent on "its former state" ?

The answer is easy: if USA wouldn't organized violent coup d'état then Crimea would still be Ukrainian. This was a sudden response move, not a long planned operatioin.

Originally Posted by Basil77

The answer is easy: if USA wouldn't organized violent coup d'état then Crimea would still be Ukrainian. This was a sudden response move, not a long planned operatioin.

You have to stop your filthy rotten propaganda machine here. (Trolling, flaming)
Second warning.

I think there is a lot of truth to what Basil77 is saying even if he is a bit to blunt with saying it. There are definitely two sides to what happened there, and he is a strong supporter of the nationalistic Russian viewpoint - that's all!

I mean - we all heard those leaked phone calls from Washington, about who they wanted in charge and who was rejected. (and f*ck the EU!)

We know Basil77 - he's been a member for ages and is not some propaganda troll. This is his heartfelt opinion. Just like Eric C has a heartfelt dislike for Putin, Russian politics and anything relating to socialism.

And it's open to anyone to contradict him, or prove him wrong. I think he should be allowed freedom of speech as long as he isn't rude or offensive.

English speaking visitors are not likely to hear this anywhere else, so I think his voice is important. And after all - this forum is partly about understanding Russia. Basil77 expresses the viewpoint of millions in Russia.

Clearly this is personal for lots of people here and I think Basil77 has mentioned that he has in-laws in Ukraine, so it's understandable that he is passionate - particularly if his wife is affected.

That said, I also think Basil77 should be a bit more sensitive.

It's partly my fault as well, for asking about this.

Originally Posted by Lampada

You have to stop your filthy rotten propaganda machine here. (Trolling, flaming)
Second warning.

It's not propaganda, it's a simple truth. "Filthy rotten propaganda" is what you hear every day on CNN, BBC, Euronews, etc.

Thank you for your support, Hanna. You are right, my in-laws indeed encountered some personal problems now after all this happenings, I even think now about buying a house for them here in Russia becasue it's became litereally impossible to live in hellhole that junta in Kiev turned Ukraine into.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

If Russia wanted Crimea so badly, why wouldn't it consider solving all those technical issues prior to doing the annexation, so the peninsula wouldn't be dependent on "its former state" ?

It was an urgent situation, not something that was pre-planned.
The people in Crimea got seriously worried about a Majdan type situation there, and hooligans from that neo-nazi organisation coming there and wreaking havoc (which they had said they would).

So various leading figures locally decided to take pre-emptive action by blocking action and talking about a referendum. Russia was more than happy to play along, with green men and everything else that followed.

There wasn't time to stop and think about water viaducts and gas pipelines or whatever else has been causing problems after Ukraine started blocking.
Plus, I think that as things progressed, the Crimeans got re-assurances from Moscow that Russia would have their back whatever happened.
I think Russia was prepared to do pretty much anything at all to help people there and was absolutely over the moon about having Crimea back.
It somewhat unfair though - that Crimea is treated like the Prodigal Son whereas Donetsk/Lugansk are on their own, and really suffering despite turning to Moscow.
It's a complex situation but Russia decided to pull out all the stops for Crimea but not for Donetsk/Lugansk.

On the Transnistria issue: Thanks for the update Basil77. That is SO sad to hear. Of course, this is not covered in Western media at all. Nobody knows anything about it. I know I said that the country is "cool" and that's true, but there is also a lot of poverty and problems there, so in a way, my comment was stupid.

They are cut off from the international monetary system. A lot of infrastructure was in a really bad state - for example I travelled in a tram that looked like 1950s vintage - it was fixed up with duct tape to keep it together.

People there are forced to live on really low sums of money - I'd guess a few hundred dollars a month if they are lucky. All sorts of shady business going on for people to stay afloat. That is not "cool", it's sad. It's the spirit of the people that was admirable. I spoke with a woman who had moved there from Moscow to be with her husband who was local She said they had chosen to live there, rather than Moscow because the country needed them. Admirable, since this couple was well-educated and could have a much better living standard in Moscow, no doubt. There were lots of banners and slogans saying things like "Friendship with Russia forever" and similar. Plus, instead of removing Soviet symbols, I got the impression they actually put up more. And everybody seemed to be religious! It was a very unique kind of place with a very resilient and gutsy population.

I wonder if Donetsk / Lugansk will end up in a similar situation as Transnistria and Abkhazia - in limbo / vacuum.

Originally Posted by Hanna

People there are forced to live on really low sums of money - I'd guess a few hundred dollars a month if they are lucky.

You would be surprised to learn that a lot of Russian/CIS areas, and specifically lots of those you traveled to in 2011 have that poverty issue - median salaries of $100-200 a month, it's safe to say that Moldova and Belarus are going through that for sure - those are the poorest countries of the area. Well, I think it's the price they pay for having socialist imbeciles in the office. What's sadder is not all of those areas let people decide on the government they wanna have, but that's another story.

Originally Posted by Hanna

It somewhat unfair though - that Crimea is treated like the Prodigal Son whereas Donetsk/Lugansk are on their own, and really suffering despite turning to Moscow.

The Russians know they broke the international law by the annexation of Crimea alone, and they're not likely to take the risk and gamble with other areas of sovereign countries with that sort of action. Plus, they've had the chance to see what those "Donetsk fighters" really are, and I think at this point, they despise them even more than the Ukrainians do.

Originally Posted by Eric C.

You would be surprised to learn that a lot of Russian/CIS areas, and specifically lots of those you traveled to in 2011 have that poverty issue - median salaries of $100-200 a month, it's safe to say that Moldova and Belarus are going through that for sure

Yes I am aware if this, and several people told me their personal situation; it's between 500-1000 for regular people in Belarus, but you need to bear in mind that they have regulated economy with artificially reduced prices for basic products.

Tragically in Ukraine, it's below USD 100 for some people, and simply no jobs for many healthy and well educated adults. Apparently over a million have are working in Poland in addition to millions already in Russia. It's too tragic for words. Well educated people picking fruit and cleaning in Poland while their kids are with grandparents.

(Deleted. L.)

Originally Posted by Eric C.

If Russia wanted Crimea so badly, why wouldn't it consider solving all those technical issues prior to doing the annexation, so the peninsula wouldn't be dependent on "its former state" ?

I think you are missing the point. It's Crimeans that wanted to go back to Russia for a long-long time. Russia just seized the opportunity and made it happen, before the war.
Crimea has lots of problems but what is certain - Crimians do not want to go back to Ukraine. And Kiev just wants to punish regular people for that, applying master-slave mentality here: closing borders, cutting water, trying to cut electricity and all this with European and American leaders turning a blind eye.

Originally Posted by hddscan

I think you are missing the point. It's Crimeans that wanted to go back to Russia for a long-long time. Russia just seized the opportunity and made it happen, before the war.
Crimea has lots of problems but what is certain - Crimians do not want to go back to Ukraine. And Kiev just wants to punish regular people for that, applying master-slave mentality here: closing borders, cutting water, trying to cut electricity and all this with European and American leaders turning a blind eye.

I can understand the explanation of the event (of annexation) being spontaneous, but then, their new mainland will have to build all the infrastructure necessary, anyway. It would be extremely stupid to rely on their former mainland helping them in what they're doing, especially given the circumstances of the mainland change.

I would be careful with statements like "It's Crimeans that wanted to go back to Russia", and "Crimians do not want to go back to Ukraine", maybe some of them don't, but those sound like "all of them don't". Some polls during that referendum of 2014 reported the will of 146% (or so, if I'm not mistaken) voters to change their country. =))

Originally Posted by Eric C.

I would be careful with statements like "It's Crimeans that wanted to go back to Russia"...

I think there will be long-lasting disinformation about Crimea in western media. It is perfect example of such thing.
Try to read wiki and try to answer some questions:
Which population is biggest in Crimea?
Which language is biggest as "native language" in Crimea?
Why did Crimea want to separate from Ukraine immidiately after USSR breakup?
Why did Crimea become "autonomous republic" among other regions of Ukraine?

And this is not the whole picture.