While in Crimea, you may consider ascending the Ай-Петри mountain. I've heard now they even have a rope way there. It's not very far from Yalta.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../AjPetri01.JPG
Printable View
While in Crimea, you may consider ascending the Ай-Петри mountain. I've heard now they even have a rope way there. It's not very far from Yalta.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi.../AjPetri01.JPG
ODESSA!
My hotel is located in a suburb of Odessa, close to the sea, but not right on the beach. The first thing I did was go and look for the sea! I got to a beach and saw the Black Sea for the first time! Amazing - and fulfilling a travel wish that I have had since childhood.
This morning I took a tram to the city centre... walked around for quite a long time and eventually found the famous "Deribasovskaya Street. (Дерибасовская)
http://img1.liveinternet.ru/images/a...basovskaya.jpg
From there, it was not hard to find the famous "Primorskiy Boulevard". That was featuring in some film I saw as a kid, and the name stuck in my mind. Forgotten the name of the film though.
There is a sort of alley walking path in the middle of the street, all very nice and pretty.
There are some very beautiful 19th century buildings in this area - including public buildings.
http://www.stihi.ru/pics/2010/07/17/213.jpg
From there, you can walk through a public park, which is beautiful, but has been neglected for many years. Eventually you get to a beach.
Black Sea beaches in Ukraine have almost white, very fine sand.
I had dinner (by myself and starting to feel a bit lonely...) at a restaurant with a terrace overlooking the sea. It was almost impossible to read the menu because it was written with some very fancy, ornamented handwriting script + I don't know how to say almost any dishes in Russian. I did not want to be awkward with the waitress, so I just picked something which she said was fish - it turned out to be a nice salmon steak.
Odessa feels very safe and again, people are friendly and helpful but I feel stupid because I can't even thank them properly for helping me. My Russian is really a lot worse than I had thought.
Eee! You are back! I'm glad you liked the Black Sea. I hope Ukraine was not as scary as you believed. :)
How's your iron hunting going?
I am pleased to report that Odessa passes the Swedish safety inspection! ;-)Quote:
Originally Posted by gRomoZeka
I have not come across any thugs etc. People are nice and helpful - they are used to tourists, but not so much to tourists who don't speak Russian. I felt completely safe.
It's really hard to shop in a country that has a different commercial setup than what you are used to.
I think most shops were closed today, so I postponed it until tomorrow - and my clothes are super-wrinkly. Is it true that 2 May is a holiday too? I saw a few signs of shops saying they'd be closed on 2 May.
Odessa song
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ryueRu3MxTw
The wifi is a bit bad at this hotel - I'll have to check the song later.
PS - It is confusing that two alternative street names are in use at the same time; Soviet era ones and new ones. Lots of people seem to ignore the new street names - but maps use these names, and sometimes it's hard to know which name is old and which is new. Also, to add some extra challenge - my map has the names in Russian - but the actual street signs are in Ukrainian.
And on the language issue; there are plenty of T-shirts and stickers on sale on Odessa, saying simply "I am Russian", "Russian is my language" etc, etc. I am not sure precisely what the problem is, but there seems to be an issue.
Could you please post here speedtest.net results for your hotel wifi?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1277453673.pngQuote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Apart from being slow, the hotels router keeps dropping the connection.
I am trying to only stay at hotels that have free wifi / internet on the room.
A lot of hotels say they have it, but it's often not true.
CROSSING THE ROAD:no:
The further East you get, the scarier it is to cross the roads.
In all the Eastern European countries I have been to now, there have been quite broad boulevards - 3-5 lanes in some cases, just going one directions. The actual lanes themselves are wide too.
Such boulevards are unusual in Western Europe. Romania had put in new traffic lights in most places, so it was ok, just very long waits and walks between the pedestrian crossings. But drivers sometimes took a (legal) left turn, ignoring the fact that pedestrians were in the middle of crossing.
In Moldova I walked for almost a kilometre, several times, just to cross the road. They had underpasses instead of pedestrian crossings. In the underpasses were lots of little shops. These areas were not dangerous (in most of Western Europe, such a place might be taken over by drug users or homeless people. But in Moldova, normal people use them).
In Central Odessa there are pedestrian crossings where you press a button and wait. But outside that area - No! People take huge risks to cross the road, and the cars do not slow down at marked pedestrian crosses, even if someone is waiting.
Also, all drivers are driving much faster than I am used to. It feels a bit scary.
Another safety risk: Trains in Romania were driving with the some of the doors open! Sometimes because people were smoking, and sometimes for no clear reason at all.
ABOUT SPEAKING RUSSIAN
I am not speaking Russian in the hotels, because the staff speaks English, and they actually WANT to speak English, (definitely not listen to my apalling Russian.) Old ladies are the best people for listening to poor Russian - several have even tried to teach me grammar or words. I really like the people here, they are very cool. And I have decided to sign up for a Russian course, as part of this trip.
ABOUT THIS HOLIDAY:
This is definitely the funkiest holiday I have had in my whole life - particularly after passing through Pridnestrovie (nice country - support their independence!). Going alone (first time ever I do that, apart from for work).... Only going by train, no flying (ecological, and better for seeing another country as it really is). I actually went by train, all the way from London, to Odessa.
Because I am practicing Russian at the same time, and experiencing another culture, it's a bit "intellectual", not just pleasure or adventure. Although I am staying at reasonably good hotels, I am not doing anything else extravagant or very expensive, so it isn't costing a fortune. For the train trip through Europe, I bought an adult Interrail card. (valid in all European countries for unlimited travel over a certain amount of days, the ex-USSR countries are not included in this setup though - you can choose 1 or 2 class, then the duration of days you need it for).
After seeing Kiev, I will try to find a 2-4 week course in Russian, in some nice town in Ukraine or Belarus, where everybody speaks Russian (not the local language) and there are not a lot of English speakers around. If anyone knows of a course that fits the bill, please let me know!
UA
Am I right to think that Hryvna (UA currency) means "crown" - that's what we call the money in Scandinavia too ! (krona) and... Ukraine is the only country other than Sweden that has a blue and yellow flag.
I'm not sure about Ukraine but in Russia these days only the May 1st is the holiday but since it coincides with a weekend day according to Russian rules one day of the forthcoming working week is announced as a free day too (May 2nd). But, once again, in Russia (at least in Novosibirsk) all the shops are opened both 1 and 2 May for the people to spend their money.Quote:
I think most shops were closed today, so I postponed it until tomorrow - and my clothes are super-wrinkly. Is it true that 2 May is a holiday too? I saw a few signs of shops saying they'd be closed on 2 May.
Oh dear.... I finally made it to the MegaMaks shop.... Thanks to a nice old lady.
She thought I was the stupidest person ever to put her foot in Odessa, no doubt.
She had a right go at me for not wearing warm enough clothes, for trying to get around town without speaking adequate Russian, and finally not realising that 2 May is "an important holiday". She said it's a day for having picnics. I had no idea. I thought it was only 1 May - in fact, I thought even that might have been dropped.
MegaMaks was closed, and it started raining. The lady said "You are a very lucky girl, that you met a nice babushka like me!" (Sweet thing to say, and age wise extremely flattering for me that everyone assumes I am a university student).
I will try again in Kiev..... SIGH!!!!
There are some old catacombs in Odessa that I'd like to see; some kind of underground tunnels that were used during WW2. I am hoping to have time for a guided tour of those.
Right now I am online trying to research train times to Kiev. I can't understand the info at the train station.
Russian is spoken in Odessa, isn't it? There are no many English speakers, are there?Quote:
I will try to find a 2-4 week course in Russian, in some nice town in Ukraine or Belarus, where everybody speaks Russian (not the local language) and there are not a lot of English speakers around.
Any city in Belorussia suits. And most Ukrainian cities: Киев, Харьков, Днепропетровск, Севастополь и т. д. fit too. The most Russian city in Ukraine is Sebastopol. You have already seen that people in Odessa were not satisfied with status of Russian language.
Какое прекрасное время вы выбрали для путешествия - начало мая! Тепло, всё цветёт. 9 мая вы увидите празднование Дня Победы, в Москве по этому поводу, наверное, будет большой парад. Всё, что я пишу, понятно?
Да, понимаю, без google! :-)Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
Yes, right now is a holiday season in the CIS countries.. I hadn't considered that. But there was Easter, then 1-2 May, and then Victory Day (or Peace day as some call it).
9 May Russian style - Now, this is a very cool holiday from my perspective! I'd love to hear "Slavjanka", "Smugljanka Moldavanka" and see some marching and tanks! That still happens, right?
Moscow is probably the place to be for the best "show"... but I don't think that will be possible due to the visa situation.
What happens in Minsk on 9 May, for example?
I would have loved to go to Yalta, but I am saving that for another time. My Russian is so apalling that I feel I can't do a lot more travelling in this area until it's improved. The babushka (see above) was right....
I am sorry I sounded so suspicious about Ukraine earlier. All the information I had was completely incorrect.
I will post a separate thread about that in this forum, just to explain this to native English speakers and fellow Europeans. I am not the only one who has heard the "wild east" rumours.
In my work I have come across policies where all credit card transactions from a Ukrainian IP address are categorically denied (due to percieved risk of cyber crimes). This also contributed to making me worried, the prospect of ending up empty-handed and alone in a country where you can barely make yourself understood, is rather scary.
People here have in fact been a great deal nicer and more helpful than they would have been in an equivalent situation in most Western European countries. They are warm, straightforward people. Everyone from old people to kids have been sweet to me. Nobody has tried to cheat me at all (touch wood).
I feel silly now, that I made such a fuss of it.
Some times ago there were attempts to eliminate Russian language (or even totally wipe it out) in Ukraine, as a tesult there were protesters. But these days the things calmed down (though I have no information from the first hand).Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
То же, что и в Москве, но в меньшем масштабе.Quote:
What happens in Minsk on 9 May, for example?
You can't get to Red Square at 9 May without invitation ticket and they are not for sale. Only for special guests. In Minsk there is also military parade on 9 May but I dunno if you can get to the main square without invitation or not. You always can take a position at some nearby street and watch the passing troops though.
If anyone reading this is in Minsk and wouldn't mind watching the celebration with a foreigner (Swedish) then drop me a note!
So, it's not a people's holiday, right? Just for the select few...Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
Watch for example last year's parade at youtube and you'll understand that your remark is just stupid. Half of Red Square is occupied by music band (last year it was more than a thousand military musicians from more that 15 countries). The other half is for marching troops. There is not much place for the guests left. Red Square is rather small - they didn't plan huge squares in middle ages somehow. Besides, most of the guests are veterans from all over Russia and other countries. I think it's fair. People who like to watch this live and not on TV are standing at nearby streets.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
That's not quite so. "Grivna" was the name for a coin in Kievan Rus and it derives from the ancient Slavic word for "neck". Nobles were used to wear golden chains (necklaces) around their necks and they often used the pieces of these chains as payment for goods.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Your reply reminds me of this picture hehe (no offence, fellow Ukrainians). It refers to Ukrainian Hetman Mazepa who known in Russian history as "traitor" because he was at first allied with Peter the Geat at Northern War but then betrayed him and joined Karl XII at the battle of Poltava. In modern Ukraine he is considered kinda hero (at least it was so at Yushchenko times).Quote:
and... Ukraine is the only country other than Sweden that has a blue and yellow flag.
http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/7...brotherhoo.jpg
Many thanks to you, Hanna, for posting about your travels, best wishes for a safe and enjoyable trip.
From Basil's, post, some things famous in other circles: literature by Pushkin and opera by Tchaikovsky. Tchaikovsky stayed at a place in Ukraine, museum there. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kamiank...kasy_Oblast%29
http://ru.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%9A%...D1%82%D1%8C%29
Mazepa Ivan Mazepa - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Мазепа, Иван Степанович — Википедия
Poltava Полтава (поэма) — Википедия
Poltava (poem) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Opera by Tchaikovsky: Mazeppa (opera) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I thought so. Can you go watch the performance in the evening?Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
Yes, AFAIK usually it's open perfomance for everyone, you just have to pass the security check.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ann
Похоже, в Минске парад проводят не на площади, а на каком-то шоссе:Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aVm9D8WonP0&feature=related
KIEV - ELEGANT CAPITAL OF UKRAINE!
Greetings from Kiev, to which I arrived this morning; by train of course. If anyone is interested about hearing about my experience of travelling by train in this area, then just say!
When I arrived I quickly discovered that ALL public signs are in Ukrainian, and official announcements on the railway station. I assume that Ukrainian is can be understood by native Russian speakers, just like I (Swedish) can understand Norwegian and Danish. BUT for someone who can barely manage in Russian, the sudden switch to Ukrainian is very confusing. I am not saying I dislike Ukranian... but since I am trying to learn Russian, I would have liked it better if the signs were in Russian. When speaking between themselves, and addressing strangers, people in Kiev seem to use Russian though.
The Kiev train station, like the one in Odessa, is very nice looking and elegant inside. There is a very modern part on the other side - nothing special about that though - it's the usual steel and glass.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...v,_Ukraine.jpg
At first, I could not understand where the metro was, or even which exit lead where... (It would be good if they had tourist info booths on these large stations). Anyway, I bought a map and left my luggage in the luggage storage room.
Time to look yet again, for the illusive travel iron (my old one broke, I really need it, and I was not able to find it in Bucharest, Kishinev or Odessa....) All my clothes are wrinkly! I decided to try "ЦУМ" the large department store.
When I finally found the metro (not linked to the actual trains station, you have to go out, cross a small piazza, and then you see, it; it's marked "При[something] Вокзал - very nice building".)
I took the metro to a station called Khrestachyk.... Walked out and immediately saw a very large elegant plaza, with a very tall elegant sculpture on it, called "Мать Родина". [edit, no it was not that, it was something else, a women, gold and on a very high pedestal] There are several other sculptures and fountains, one of some Vikings!
http://blog.kievukraine.info/uploade...473-712556.jpg
This area is full of architecturally interesting and beautiful buildings, from the 18th and 19th century, Stalin era, later Soviet and some contemporary. There are parks everywhere. I saw the square where the "Orange Revolution" took place - it was almost empty apart from some crowd control barricades.
I could not see anything that looked like a department store, so I asked some old ladies. They were also tourists, so shouted out to a guy. He said he was going there too, so I walked with him. It turned out that he was visiting the city from Minsk (Belarus) and was catching a train back this evening.
http://svit24.net/images/stories/art...1/cum-kiev.jpg
We made it to the department store, which was very big, and open despite the (Christian) holiday today. The style and layout of this department store reminded of Soviet style, but naturally, all goods were modern. At the top floor I found it! A Rowenta travel iron for 350 gryvna. Hurrah, now I can look civilised again!
The Belarussian guy and I enjoyed each others company, despite the communication problems, and ended up going for a walk around town, having lunch and coffee, sightseeing some churches and seeing the river Dnepr. To me, this is a cool river to see because it's where the Vikings sailed when they visited Russia etc, and sailed to Istanbul. We also took a ride up a little funiculaire, to a large Orthodox church.
http://en.structurae.de/files/photos...e/07180078.jpg
Kiev is very beautifully planned; lots of large squares, sculptures, memorials and best of all - plenty of public parks! Most houses in the city centre are good looking in one way or another - just pretty, or architecturally interesting.There are cheap and relatively clean public loos available everywhere, which can really make a difference when you are walking around sightseeing.
http://marvaoguide.com/images/storie...0in%20Kiev.jpg
There are plenty of good restaurants and cafes around.I wish there was one that made soy milk or rice milk lattes, but that may be asking too much. This part of the world basically does not cater much for people with allergies (I have a rather bad allergy for milk products).
Eventually I parted ways with the Belarussian guy (I might call him when I get to Minsk - I still haven't got around to buying a SIM card though) Would have preferred to email instead, but he said he did not have email.... is internet unusual in Belarus?)
I collected my bag at the station, and headed for the metro again, to travel to the station Dvoretz Sporty. However I could not work out how to change trains, because the Kiev metro has almost no metro maps on display.
http://ucrania.pordescubrir.com/wp-c...9/04/kiev1.jpg
Just as I was standing there feeling confused, I noticed that VI Lenin was looking down on me from a massive bronze face on the wall, lol! The Kiev metro (as mentioned by forum members earlier) is very impressive, very deep underground, and very impressively decorated. It would look A LOT better without advertisements though - they ruin the effect. Each station has its own theme and style. It takes several minutes to rid the escalator up or down.
Again, a guy came to the rescue! He ended up helping me with my super heavy bag all the way to the hotel. I am in a hotel up on a hill, overlooking a large sports stadium that seems to be under construction. Since I am on the 9th floor I have a nice view of town - to bad I didn't get a room on the top floor, I'd say this building is 30 floors high!
Kiev has 5.5 million inhabitants. Bigger than all the Scandinavian capitals put together! I had no idea it was so large!
Thanks for checking that! The celebrations in Minsk are big enough for me. I like this CIS holiday because I have always liked the songs. And nowadays I don't consider [Russian] army intimidating, so would not mind seeing a parade - and it's such a big holiday to Russians and other CIS people. I'd like to experience it!Quote:
Originally Posted by BappaBa
Yes, I've read in Swedish papers, that Ukraine ordered statues of him. Which was surprising to Sweden because Karl XII has become a hero to extreme nationalists etc (neo nazists etc). Nobody in Sweden was aware that he was a hero in Ukraine.Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
He used to be a big hero in the past, for taking on Russia... But by doing that, he caused the downfall of Swedens little Baltic empire, so really, I actually don't know why anyone considers him a hero. If he had not challenged Russia, we might still have Finland, and Norway (+their oil...). But that's why Sweden has almost completely stayed away from wars, ever since then. Everyone was incredibly fed up with endless wars, and the loss to Russia was completely devastating.
Is this kind of thing (as the crowd in this clip) invitation-only too? Or is it normal people, did they pay to go?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Q7V6O7VCtQ
Yeah, I know this kind of stuff is a bit cheesy.... but it's fun! In Sweden we have sing-along peoples parties too, but not on such a large scale as in Russia! They can be such fun though - everyone singing nice songs that all know.... we have them in the late midsummer nights, when the sun is still shining at night. Also, we have no big dramatic event, like that, to celebrate...
Это неправда. Финляндию Швеция потеряла в результате войны с Россией в 1809 году. Норвегия принадлежала Дании во времена Карла 12 и была передана Швеции после Наполеоновских войн, а независимость получила в 1905 году. В 18 - начале 19 века Швеция только с Россией три раза вела войну.Quote:
If he had not challenged Russia, we might still have Finland, and Norway (+their oil...). But that's why Sweden has almost completely stayed away from wars, ever since then. Everyone was incredibly fed up with endless wars, and the loss to Russia was completely devastating.
Yes, that's true when I think about it... Sorry about sloppy mistake! You are very knowledgeable about history! Generally, that war is considered to be the biggest failure in Sweden's history and I didn't want to get into it too much, or double check on Wikipedia. But right should be right! Next time I'll check my facts.Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
Wow - I have never seen such fast internet in my life!
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1279776886.png
Приміський вокзал = Пригородный вокзал (по-русски) = suburban train stationQuote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
Not to say he is a hero but Mazepa hoped to use him to get independence from Moscow. So nowadays his statue is a memory of the hope for independence of Ukraine. :)Quote:
Yes, I've read in Swedish papers, that Ukraine ordered statues of him. Which was surprising to Sweden because Karl XII has become a hero to extreme nationalists etc (neo nazists etc). Nobody in Sweden was aware that he was a hero in Ukraine.
AFAIK Karl XII was a great general, who won many battles. But as a ruler he was unable to make use of his victories and his first defeat turned into a complete disaster.
I heard that internet in Eastern Europe generally surprisingly faster than in Western Europe because infrastructure was buit recently and more modern equipment was used.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1279957456.png
It's unbelievable that he continued to wage war against a much bigger country with an advanced army, almost unlimited space and many more people.. Of course that would never work out, at least in a longer perspective! Because of him, we are not a big and important country, but an unimportant country in the outskirts of Europe, and some territories that ought to be Swedish are now Finnish. I really don't know a lot about this period in history, but it seems pointless to blame Russia for more or less simply defending itself. I am definitely not interested in going to Poltava - would be totally depressing.Quote:
Originally Posted by it-ogo
Он будет вести войну против целой коалиции стран, но так бывало раньше. Швеция много раз побеждала Россию и другие могущественные государства. Шведская армия считалась самой сильной в Европе, по храбрости и умению шведские солдаты не знали себе равных. Под Полтавой у них почти не было шансов, хотя в какой-то момент им удалось склонить чашу весов на свою сторону, у них было вдвое меньше солдат, 4 пушки против 100, и они атаковали укреплённые позиции.
Если что-то непонятно, спрашивайте.
I think I failed and maybe the pony express is faster....:cry:Quote:
Originally Posted by Basil77
http://www.speedtest.net/result/1281215543.png
If you tell us all your impression, everyone will be glad.Quote:
If anyone is interested about hearing about my experience of travelling by train in this area, then just say!
You can practice your Russian in the EU, in Latvia or eastern Estonia. There are fully Russian cities, like Narva (you will be glad to visit this city because the Swedish defeated big Russian army in 1700 there). I wonder what would be there on the ninth of May.
But four years later we've got our revenge for that defeat:evil:Quote:
Originally Posted by Marcus
http://img838.imageshack.us/img838/8...capturingn.jpg
Probably another Waffen SS march. :bad:Quote:
I wonder what would be there on the ninth of May.
Rockzmom - Move to Kiev! Extremely cool city for lots of different reasons. Fantastic buildings, nice parks - quality shopping, cheap shopping, good food, seems completely safe - and a ride on the metro is 10 cent USD. People are mostly friendly and cool...Quote:
Originally Posted by rockzmom
No just kidding, but what is going on with your internet connection? Have you only got dial-up, not broadband? If that's supposed to be broadband, then you are being ripped off! There are quite a lot of things you can't do online, with such bad speeds.
The hotel I am staying at has run out of rooms (I wanted to stay 1-2 days more, without moving hotels). Surprising, since it is an absolutely massive hotel. (Hotel Rus - warmly recommended - great value, great breakfast buffe and general clean, nice and friendly - not the most stylish but who needs that?)
For that reason, I am thinking that I might head to Belarus earlier than I had planned. Fingers crossed that they are both writing and speaking in Russian! (Kiev is not actually a great place for a student of Russian, Ukrainian language is the only one used in writing, on town - that's a contrast to Odessa).
I have been very impressed by Kiev though. It's got everything: Interesting architecture, great churches (St Sofia Cathedral and many more). It is probably safer even than Paris, definitely more safe than Madrid and Milan, to name a few cities where I felt a lot more unsafe than here in Kiev.
Today I took it easy because I was feeling a bit unwell - there are more sights left that I would like to see; Museum of the Great Patriotic War, possibly the Chernobyl museum and then there are some parts of town I didn't see. Maybe also do a river cruise on the Dnepr.
The distribution of income here is pretty obscene. There are a fair number of designer clothes shops in central Kiev, and shops selling expensive jewellery, Swiss watches etc. Yet the average income is 400 USD per month, according to Lonely Planet. There are also people being driven around in expensive cars that drive like they owned the road. I strongly dislike such unfairness, particularly in a country that was (at least technically) owned by the people only 20 years ago.
I really want to improve my Russian though and if Belarussian has taken over in Belarus, then I'll check out the country, then head to Russia as fast as I can (depending on how long it takes to get a Russian visa). I would like to take a Russian course in a nice city/town where I can live quite cheaply and see some interesting sights, nature etc, and where people are nice and friendly.
If anyone lives in Belarus and knows of a place that offers Russian courses to foreigners, please could you let me know? I've only found 2 so far and I am not sure that they are right for me - would like to see more options.
Alternatively if some nice place in Russia comes to mind!
Have you read my PM?Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanna