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Thread: Who's afraid of Russian Nouns...? [me!] Русские существительные........

  1. #1
    Hanna
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    Who's afraid of Russian Nouns...? [me!] Русские существительные........

    Just LOOKING at a table of Russian nouns is totally overwhelming......


    Declension of здание

    singular plural nominative зда́ние зда́ния genitive зда́ния зда́ний dative зда́нию зда́ниям accusative зда́ние зда́ния instrumental зда́нием зда́ниями prepositional зда́нии зда́ниях
    ....but I have put it off for long enough now!
    There has got to be some logic, or some way that I can learn it....

    This is my thread for learning to use Russian nouns correctly!

  2. #2
    Властелин
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    Don't look at the table - study gradually. Was looking at the table of Spanish verbs overhelming for you? The only problem with the word здание is that it is spelled with и at the end in dat. and prep. sing. Becides that, it is a usual neutre noun.
    Ask any questions, and I will try to answer.

  3. #3
    Hanna
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    Oh BLAH!

    Russian Writing Exercise | Описание предметов by Johanna. Id: 20633014

    Там пять зданий. Они зелёные и жёлтые.
    Здесь один дом. Он не чёрный, он белый.

    У меня две красные дома.
    У тебя три синые дома.
    У учителя пять голобые домов.
    У Ивана домов нет.





    Tanya
    Mochapoints: 2159 | Teacher Score: 1199 (100%) | Add Friend

    Там пять зданий. Они зелёные и жёлтые. Здесь один дом. Он не чёрный, он белый.

    У меня два красных дома.
    У тебя три синие дома.
    У учителя пять голобых домов.
    У Ивана домов нет.

    ---------------------------------------
    Ah ok... Most of my mistakes where with the adjectives and not with the nouns.
    I was so focussed on the nouns that I forgot about the adjectives. Синие was just a typo.

    But the principle with дом was right then: It is Nominative until it is five or more. From five, it is Genitive.

    I don't understand when it should be два or две.

  4. #4
    Увлечённый спикер
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Oh BLAH!



    ---------------------------------------
    Ah ok... Most of my mistakes where with the adjectives and not with the nouns.
    I was so focussed on the nouns that I forgot about the adjectives. Синие was just a typo.

    But the principle with дом was right then: It is Nominative until it is five or more. From five, it is Genitive.

    I don't understand when it should be два or две.
    У меня два красных дома.
    У тебя три синих дома.
    У учителя пять голубых домов.
    У Ивана домов (оr дома if you mean singular noun дом) нет.

    "Два" - is for masculin nouns (два дома for example) "две" is for feminin (две девушки)

    I've never been afraid of nouns so far. But now, after thinking of explanation, I am ))

  5. #5
    Administrator MasterAdmin's Avatar
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    First of all, you are confused about cases and not just Russian nouns.

    Now, to make it simple... cases are like the word order in English. Cases are simply word endings that show what role a noun plays in a sentence. Learn the cases. Learn the case endings. And then you'll be able to generate all those tables automatically... except for the exceptions, of course

  6. #6
    Властелин
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    Learn the case endings. And then you'll be able to generate all those tables automatically... except for the exceptions, of course
    So easy.

  7. #7
    Administrator MasterAdmin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marcus View Post
    So easy.
    Really?

    I don't think so

  8. #8
    Hanna
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterAdmin View Post
    First of all, you are confused about cases and not just Russian nouns.

    Now, to make it simple... cases are like the word order in English. Cases are simply word endings that show what role a noun plays in a sentence. Learn the cases. Learn the case endings. And then you'll be able to generate all those tables automatically... except for the exceptions, of course
    I am a slow learner unfortunately!

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterAdmin View Post
    Really?

    I don't think so
    Это была ирония.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    I am a slow learner unfortunately!
    Do you remember how you studied French and especially Spanish verbs? Was it possible to remember all the forms immediately? No.
    If you take courses, everything will come to there place.
    Children very quickly understand how to use cases, but often make wrong forms.
    Руком (рукой), лефа (льва) and so on.

  11. #11
    Старший оракул Seraph's Avatar
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    Hanna: take a look at some of these.

    From on-line text book:
    http://newstar.rinet.ru/~goga/biblio/lipson/lipson.html

    Basic noun paradigms: http://newstar.rinet.ru/~goga/biblio/lipson/scaled/img535-scaled.jpg
    Basic adjective and noun case ending table, translit (need to know spelling rules) http://newstar.rinet.ru/~goga/biblio/lipson/scaled/img534-scaled.jpg
    Adjectives: http://newstar.rinet.ru/~goga/biblio/lipson/scaled/img536-scaled.jpg
    This is not all adjectives, but most fit these. Also you will find all kinds of other useful fundamentals in this book. It is like a generative grammar type book. I have the audio for it, but the files are a little large.

  12. #12
    Завсегдатай Basil77's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Oh BLAH!
    Is this in Russian?
    Please, correct my mistakes, except for the cases I misspell something on purpose!

  13. #13
    Почтенный гражданин bitpicker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    But the principle with дом was right then: It is Nominative until it is five or more. From five, it is Genitive.
    In fact it is not. Два, три, четыре дома - here дома is genitive singular. When counting a noun phrase in nominative or accusative with adjectives, the adjectives are in genitive plural if the noun is masculine or neuter, but in nominative plural if the noun is feminine. The noun itself is in genitive singular with 2, 3, 4 and any numbers ending in spoken 2, 3, 4 (so not 12, 13, 14, but 22, 23, 24), and genitive plural with other numbers except those ending in 1 when it is singular. Yes, that's insane. And furthermore, in other cases the numeral, the adjectives and the noun agree in case, for example all instrumental.
    Спасибо за исправления!

    Вам нравится этот форум, и вы изучаете немецкий язык? Вот похожий форум о немецком языке.

  14. #14
    Hanna
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    Oh Robin, this is TRULY insane.
    I have read your post five times and I still don't understand it.
    Advanced mathematics is simpler for goodness sake.
    I honestly don't think I can ever learn this.

    It seems like it was complete chance that I got the дом right in my example. It was not because I had understood it right anyway. And someone was mentioning other language skills, well the truth is, my Spanish and French are really bad - and the grammar is a lot simpler for these languages. I can not have serious conversations. I don't count that as languages I really speak. And German, I won't even mention that, it's strictly pidgin style. Basically I am not very good at languages.

    I managed to learn English without knowing any grammatical terms and I have reluctantly learnt the basics of grammatical terms, just to study Russian. But this is just too hard.

    Virtually any programming language for example, is a breeze compared with Russian.

    I used Дома because I thought it was nominative plural!!!
    apparently by complete chance, it is the same word in genitive singular (que???)

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Basil77 View Post
    Is this in Russian?
    LMAO

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Virtually any programming language for example, is a breeze compared with Russian.
    Did someone call for Captain Obviousity? =))

  17. #17
    Властелин
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    Hanna,
    Does this help?


    If number ends in 1 (except for 11) then

    No change to the word (дом)
    Goto Done

    If number ends in 2, 3 or 4 (except for 12, 13, 14) then

    Noun is in Genitive Singular (дома)
    Goto Done

    If number ends all other numbers

    Noun is in Genitive Plural (домов)
    Goto Done


    Done

    If it helps we can fill in more details.

    Scott


    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Oh Robin, this is TRULY insane.
    I have read your post five times and I still don't understand it.
    Advanced mathematics is simpler for goodness sake.
    I honestly don't think I can ever learn this.

    It seems like it was complete chance that I got the дом right in my example. It was not because I had understood it right anyway. And someone was mentioning other language skills, well the truth is, my Spanish and French are really bad - and the grammar is a lot simpler for these languages. I can not have serious conversations. I don't count that as languages I really speak. And German, I won't even mention that, it's strictly pidgin style. Basically I am not very good at languages.

    I managed to learn English without knowing any grammatical terms and I have reluctantly learnt the basics of grammatical terms, just to study Russian. But this is just too hard.

    Virtually any programming language for example, is a breeze compared with Russian.

    I used Дома because I thought it was nominative plural!!!
    apparently by complete chance, it is the same word in genitive singular (que???)

  18. #18
    Hanna
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    Scott, that was super helpful ! Thanks a lot.
    It's still complicated to remember, but it's easier to understand it in that format!

    [Can't find the smiley with the flower! ]

  19. #19
    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hanna View Post
    Virtually any programming language for example, is a breeze compared with Russian.
    There is one more point in it though. Mostly it will work even without strict following the rules. Severity of legislation is compensated with its avoidability. Typical.

    Code:
                                  Nouns                    Adjectives
    
    -1 (except 11)                Sn Nom/Acc               Sn Nom/Acc
    
    -2, -3, -4                    Sn Gen                   Pl Gen or
    (except -12, -13, -14)                                 Pl Nom/Acc
    
    Rest                          Pl Gen                   Pl Gen
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

  20. #20
    Властелин
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    it is the same word in genitive singular
    The stress is different: дОма is gen. s. домА is nom. pl.
    The ending "a" in nom. pl. of masc. nouns is always stressed.

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