Hi,
Not able to answer this myself. I have a feeling I knew which it was, but as I didn't understand why, I have now forgotten...
Rich B
Hi,
Not able to answer this myself. I have a feeling I knew which it was, but as I didn't understand why, I have now forgotten...
Rich B
I'm only guessing, but I suspect it's genitive (I'm sorry for you).
That was my guess, too! I'll try asking a native speaker...
Мне жаль тебя.
Я думаю, что здесь тебя в винительном падеже. Я вижу тебя (вин.). У меня нет тебя (род.) Не изменилось.
Когда речь идет о неодушевлённом предмете, мы скажем: мне жаль книгу, я вижу книгу (вин.), но у меня нет книги (род.) То есть после жаль тот же падеж, что и после вижу. Просто нужно запомнить.
I think it is accusative if it is used in the sense of "I am sorry for you". If it is used in the sense of "I don't want to give you away (grudge)" then it can be either accusative or genitive (мне жаль книгу/книги).
Мне жаль дочь.
Как тебе не жалко родной матери?
I think it can perfectly be said "мне жаль книгу" and "мне жаль книги" as well. The same with "мне жаль этот дом"/"мне жаль этого дома", etc. So, my guess is you can't figure out what case is used for "тебя" in the example you gave. :-P
Please check the It-ogo's post carefully. Different cases are used for different sense. I hardly can imagine any context where "мне жаль тебя" would imply "тебя" in genitive case. Since "мне жаль тебя" is "I feel sorry for you", "тебя" is in accusative case here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eric C.
Hmmm, Ozhegov's dictionary gives the example Ему жаль потраченного времени.
I suppose that the sentence could either be translated "He regretted having wasted his time," or "He resented the wasted time" -- but "to regret" implies sadness, while "to resent" implies mild anger at the situation, so I'm not sure which English word is better in this context.
>жаль потраченного времени.
either way, it's Genitive, not Accusative.
Are adverbial phrases the norm for this kind of thing? How is "I'm happy for you" said? Мне счастливо тебя. ?? Мне счастье тебя?
Я очень рад/рада за тебя/вас.Quote:
Originally Posted by Seraph
Благодаря Лампаде! (This one is dative, right?)
Both are acceptable. There were explanations by it-ogo (click here) and Полуношник (click here).Quote:
жаль потраченного времени / жаль потраченное время
Okay,
So, my original example seems to have been in the accusative case, which makes sense.
From Throbert McGee:- "to regret" implies sadness, while "to resent" implies mild anger
So which of these does "жаль" translate best as? I would have thought sorrow rather than irritation, as I think I've seen it used that way before.
Rich B
From it ogo:- If it is used in the sense of "I don't want to give you away (grudge)" then it can be either accusative or genitive (мне жаль книгу/книги).
Is the word 'book' being used here just to demonstrate the endings used, or is this another quirky idiom...?
By "I don't want to give you away", do you mean "I don't want to give you to someone else!" or "I don't want to reveal you?" Either way it is a meaning for this phrase that I would not have guessed from looking at it.
Thanks,
Rich B
No idioms, there are different meanings of the word "жаль/жалко".
Here is an article from Multilex:
Meaning 1 (normally for animate) requires accusative.Quote:
жаль предик. безл.
1. (кого-л.) переводится личн. формами: pity (smb.), be / feel* sorry (for smb.)
ему жаль его — he pities him, he is / feels sorry for him
ему до слёз жаль её — the sight of her brings the tears to his eyes
2. (+ инф.):
мне жаль смотреть на него — it grieves me to look at him
3. (чего-л.) переводится глаголом: grudge (smth.)
ему жаль куска хлеба — he grudges a bit of bread
мне жаль тратить время — I grudge spending all that time
для вас ему ничего не жаль — there is nothing he would not part with to please you
4. (что, если; прискорбно) is is a pity (that, if)
ему жаль, что — he is sorry that
как жаль! — what a pity!
очень жаль — it's a great pity
Meaning 3 (normally for inanimate) requires either genitive (usually) or accusative.
I think that it-ogo’s post sorted things out fairly well. It’s just that it was a bit confusing because he used the phrase to give away, which means to reveal or betray, to mean to give something to somebody, to lend. So, if I feel sorry for the book, for it was a great book but it burned down in a fire and I don’t have it anymore, then:Quote:
Originally Posted by it-ogo
Мне жаль книгу.
If I grudge giving the book to you, I don’t want to part with it, then:
Мне жаль книги. Although it wouldn’t be much of a mistake or any mistake at all to say in this case Мне жаль книгу too.
Thanks it-ogo and alexB, that's a lot clearer. Funny how even simple things can expand into a lot of new areas fore me.
Rich B
And thanks it-ogo for the link to Multilex/SlovoEd, that's a serious resource there!
Rich B
From Multi-Lex:
As a native American English speaker, I find this example very "weird-sounding" -- nowadays, "grudge" is quite often used as a noun (as in the horror movie The Grudge), but rather rarely used as a verb.Quote:
ему жаль куска хлеба — he grudges a bit of bread
Instead, the prefixed form "to begrudge" is the more commonly used verb form, and is especially common as a negated verb:
I did not begrudge him the food. (I did not regret giving him the food; I did not mind parting with the food.)
I don't begrudge the time I spent learning Latin. (I don't consider it a waste of time, although I've mostly forgotten my Latin.)
If you want to express the opposite meaning (that you were unhappy to part with the food), you can say EITHER:
I begrudged him the food.
I begrudged the lost time.
...OR you can use the adverbial form "begrudgingly", modifying a verb such as "to give" or "to part with" or "to lend", etc.":
I begrudgingly gave him the food.
I begrudgingly lent him the five dollars.
I spent the time begrudgingly.
In my opinion, the negative "to not begrudge" and the positive adverbial construction "to begrudgingly give" (or "to begrudgingly part with", etc.) sound especially natural and colloquial -- more so than the positive "to begrudge", and MUCH MUCH more natural than "to grudge."
PS. Let me repeat that I'm a US English speaker -- it's possible that UK speakers would totally disagree with me.
PPS. The non-prefixed adjective "grudging" and the adverb "grudgingly" are also in common use, and are synonyms for "begrudging" and "begrudgingly". However, there is no such noun as "begrudge" -- you can say "He had a strong grudge", but "He had a strong begrudge" is impossible!