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Thread: How important is learn to write by hand in Russian?

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    Подающий надежды оратор Konstantinos's Avatar
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    How important is learn to write by hand in Russian?

    So, how important is learn to write by hand in Russian? I see that there are differences between type letters on computer and write letters by hand in a paper. So, I am wondering, must I learn to write by hand? Also, if I can write by hand the same letters which I type on computer, is there problem?

    Thank you.

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    It's rather important. If you can write only in block ("computer") letters it's ok, but it might be a good idea to learn to understand handwritten text (cursive). Most Russians use it in everyday life (for notes, buying lists, written requests, etc.), cursive is also often used for decorative purposes (on postcards, signs, labels, etc.)

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    Завсегдатай Ramil's Avatar
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    Yes, being able to actually read the handwritten text is somewhat useful, but you cannot learn how to read it without learning how to write so...
    Besides, you're from Greece, you have different alphabet already (Russia used Greek alphabet as a base, so I think it will be easier for you).
    MrsKlug likes this.
    Send me a PM if you need me.

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    Завсегдатай chaika's Avatar
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    Well, you will write Russian in longhand probably as much as you write Greek longhand. If you never write out a shopping list or a brief note on a get-well card in Greek, you won't in Russian either. But also you will not know how to read notes other people write you.

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    Завсегдатай Throbert McGee's Avatar
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    I would add that printed italic fonts in Russian are based on cursive handwriting, so if you don't learn to write with a pen in cursive, you'll have difficulty reading italic or calligraphic Russian.

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    hi konstantinos this Datta from India.

    привет konstantinos. it is one of the way to remember the words & strenthen our Vocabulary.

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    Hey man, while it is pretty important, and if you're serious about Russian you could make an effort to learn it, but its not going to make or break you.

    I never really mastered the cursive and when I write its usually a mix of like 50/50 cursive and regular "font" type letters. So don't let it be too distracting, and I've never had a Russian unwilling to help me sort out what they've written if I couldn't read the cursive.

    *** I should add that I never really mastered handwriting in English either and I still write like a five year old. Probably why I was never any good at drawing either. Кривые руки, I suppose. So if you can write your name five times in a row and have all the letters look more or less the same, then you should be fine :P.
    Вот это да, я так люблю себя. И сегодня я люблю себя, ещё больше чем вчера, а завтра я буду любить себя to ещё больше чем сегодня. Тем что происходит,я вполне доволен!

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    Подающий надежды оратор Konstantinos's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your answers. I decided to learn to write in Russian. Can you tell me if I am right? I have written some words in Russian. I want your opinion. Thank you.
    Please download the pdf here:

    IMG.pdf

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    Nice try!
    All words are understandable.

    A few notes:

    1) lines above small "т"'s are not necessary - but it's not a mistake, and if you like the look of these lines it's ok to use them
    2) stems (lower parts) of small "р"'s are too short, which makes them too similar to "п"s and can be confusing. Same goes for all your letters that have long lower parts ("з", "у", "д", etc)
    3) You wrote "килАметр" (the small hook to the right of "O" is unnecessary)
    4) "конИерт" instead of "концерт" (a small hook in "ц" is missing)
    5) "Ч" in "чемпион" and "чай" looks too much like "у". It should look closer to English cursive "r".
    6) no need to connect words when you use cursive. Only letters in words are interconnected.


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    What i have done is copy the Pimsleur lessons posted by Grogs in the Pimsleur thread, copied them into XL and changed the font type to Monotype Corsiva which is as close as i could find

    So not only do i get to listen to and speak the Pimsluer lessons i get to read and write them, its a bit of a ball ache copying them into XL but i am happy to send the files for Pimsleur 1 Lessons 1 - 30 to you.

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    Подающий надежды оратор Konstantinos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    Nice try!
    All words are understandable.

    A few notes:

    1) lines above small "т"'s are not necessary - but it's not a mistake, and if you like the look of these lines it's ok to use them
    2) stems (lower parts) of small "р"'s are too short, which makes them too similar to "п"s and can be confusing. Same goes for all your letters that have long lower parts ("з", "у", "д", etc)
    3) You wrote "килАметр" (the small hook to the right of "O" is unnecessary)
    4) "конИерт" instead of "концерт" (a small hook in "ц" is missing)
    5) "Ч" in "чемпион" and "чай" looks too much like "у". It should look closer to English cursive "r".
    6) no need to connect words when you use cursive. Only letters in words are interconnected.

    Thank you very much. Here, I have the last version after your advice. Please tell me your opinion.

    IMG.pdf

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    Much better! Very well done.
    You still need to work a little on connecting "o" with other letters and understanding usual patterns. You draw some unnecessary extra lines instead of connecting the letters "directly" to each other in "ом", "ол" and similar combinations.

    Check these words - том, там, километр (sorry, I had to use a mouse, so they are not very pretty).

    Do you see the difference between "ом" and "ам"? (Your "ом" is usually something in between).

    Also your "Х" misses the left hook in "восточнославянскиХ" and you need to improve your "Й" in "русскиЙ язык" (a little ark/line above Й must be added, and its right hook changed - right now it resembles "ц").

    But you definitely made good progress in a short time!
    Was cursive hard for you to learn or it comes naturally? I'm curious, because Greek script seems close to handwriting in general..

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    Подающий надежды оратор Konstantinos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    Much better! Very well done.
    Thank you.

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    You still need to work a little on connecting "o" with other letters and understanding usual patterns. You draw some unnecessary extra lines instead of connecting the letters "directly" to each other in "ом", "ол" and similar combinations.

    Check these words - том, там, километр (sorry, I had to use a mouse, so they are not very pretty).

    Do you see the difference between "ом" and "ам"? (Your "ом" is usually something in between).
    I understand what you mean and thank you. The truth is that I was wondering about this. I have a book which says: "Do not omit the small hook at the beginning of the letters М, Л and Я". This is the reason why I draw some unnecessary extra lines. Now, after your advice I have understood.

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    Also your "Х" misses the left hook in "восточнославянскиХ"
    Right. I understand again.

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    and you need to improve your "Й" in "русскиЙ язык" (a little ark/line above Й must be added, and its right hook changed - right now it resembles "ц").
    Yes, you are right. This is a mistake because I was not careful.

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    But you definitely made good progress in a short time!
    Thank you again.

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    Was cursive hard for you to learn or it comes naturally? I'm curious, because Greek script seems close to handwriting in general..
    It was easier than I thought. I believe that learning to write in Latin alphabet (for English) when I was 7 years old was harder than learning to write in Cyrillic alphabet now (I am 24 years old). But both alphabets (Latin and Cyrillic) derived from Greek alphabet so finally I believe it was easy to learn to write in this alphabets. For example the letter В в is written with the same way like Β β in Greek (and it is pronounced with the same way).

    Dear gRomoZeka. I thank you for fourth time. I hope we keep in touch and I learn to discuss in Russian language soon.

    Your Konstantinos, Κωνσταντινος, Константинос.

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    Dear gRomoZeka. I thank you for fourth time. I hope we keep in touch and I learn to discuss in Russian language soon.
    You are welcome! I'm glad I could help.
    Quote Originally Posted by Konstantinos View Post
    It was easier than I thought. I believe that learning to write in Latin alphabet (for English) when I was 7 years old was harder than learning to write in Cyrillic alphabet now (I am 24 years old). But both alphabets (Latin and Cyrillic) derived from Greek alphabet so finally I believe it was easy to learn to write in this alphabets. For example the letter В в is written with the same way like Β β in Greek (and it is pronounced with the same way).
    Thank you for your input, it's very interesting to know. English native speakers often comment on how hard cursive is, so I always wondered what people whose native language uses non-Latin script would think.

    A connection between Greek and Russian is slim, but it's there.
    I had a book of linguistic puzzles as a teen. One of the "problems" was a short text in Greek spelled in Cyrillic letters, which could have been translated into Russian even without any knowledge of Greek language. At first glance it seemed gibberish, but could be deciphered after some hard thinking.
    (I can find it if anyone is interested).

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    Завсегдатай chaika's Avatar
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    MrsKlug likes this.

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    Подающий надежды оратор Konstantinos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    A connection between Greek and Russian is slim, but it's there.
    I really don't know the similarities between slavic languages and hellenic languages but I believe they are more than similarities between germanic languages and slavic or between germanic and hellenic.

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    I had a book of linguistic puzzles as a teen. One of the "problems" was a short text in Greek spelled in Cyrillic letters, which could have been translated into Russian even without any knowledge of Greek language. At first glance it seemed gibberish, but could be deciphered after some hard thinking.
    (I can find it if anyone is interested).
    I am sure you know that I am interested. I have information how you can contact with me in my signature.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Konstantinos View Post
    I am sure you know that I am interested. I have information how you can contact with me in my signature.
    I'll post it here in case someone else would like to try to "translate" it.
    Though it's more of a logical puzzle, than a language test.

    Задание: Переведите этот диалог на русский язык (знание новогреческого языка не требуется).

    - Ксерете афтон тон антропон?
    - Нэ, ксеро.
    - Пйос инэ афтос о антропос?
    - Афтос о антропос инэ о Эллинас апо тин Кипрон. То онома афту ту антропу инэ Андреас.
    - Мила Эллиника?
    - Фисика, мила Эллиника поли кала. Ке мила Русика.
    - Ке сис, милате Русика кала?
    - Охе, эго ден мило Русика. Ксеро моно мэрикус лексис ке фрасис. Мило ке графо Англика кала. Ке сис, ксерете Англика?
    - Не, ксеро афти ти глосса.
    - Афто инэ кала.

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    Подающий надежды оратор Konstantinos's Avatar
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    I cannot imagine that Russian people can understand this dialogue. Can they? This language is Greek with Cyrillic alphabet.

    Quote Originally Posted by gRomoZeka View Post
    - Ксерете афтон тон антропон?
    - Нэ, ксеро.
    - Пйос инэ афтос о антропос?
    - Афтос о антропос инэ о Эллинас апо тин Кипрон. То онома афту ту антропу инэ Андреас.
    - Мила Эллиника?
    - Фисика, мила Эллиника поли кала. Ке мила Русика.
    - Ке сис, милате Русика кала?
    - Охе, эго ден мило Русика. Ксеро моно мэрикус лексис ке фрасис. Мило ке графо Англика кала. Ке сис, ксерете Англика?
    - Не, ксеро афти ти глосса.
    - Афто инэ кала.
    Translation (Greek, English).
    - Ксерете афтон тон антропон? Ξέρετε αυτόν τον άνθρωπο; Do you know this person?
    - Нэ, ксеро. Ναι, ξέρω. Yes, I do.
    - Пйос инэ афтос о антропос? Ποιος είναι αυτός ο άνθρωπος; Who is this person?
    - Афтос о антропос инэ о Эллинас апо тин Кипрон. То онома афту ту антропу инэ Андреас. Αυτός ο άνθρωπος είναι ο Έλληνας από την Κύπρο. Το όνομά αυτού του ανθρώπου είναι Ανδρέας. This person is the Greek from Cyprus. The name of this person is Andreas.
    - Мила Эллиника? Μιλάει Ελληνικά; Does he speak Greek?
    - Фисика, мила Эллиника поли кала. Ке мила Русика. Φυσικά, μιλά Ελληνικά πολύ καλά. Και μιλά Ρώσικα. Of course, he speaks Greek. And he speaks Russian.
    - Ке сис, милате Русика кала? Και σεις, μιλάτε Ρώσικα καλά; And you, do you speak Russian well?
    - Охе, эго ден мило Русика. Ксеро моно мэрикус лексис ке фрасис. Мило ке графо Англика кала. Ке сис, ксерете Англика? Όχι, εγώ δεν μιλώ Ρώσικα. Ξέρω μόνο μερικές λέξεις και φράσεις. Μιλώ και γράφω Αγγλικά καλά. Και σεις, ξέρετε Αγγλικά; No, I do not speak Russian. I know only a few words and phrases. I speak and write English well. And you, do you know English?
    - Не, ксеро афти ти глосса. Ναι, ξέρω αυτή τη γλώσσα. Yes, I know this language.
    - Афто инэ кала. Αυτό είναι καλό. This is good.

    So, the language which Greek words and phrases are written by Latin alphabet are called Greeklish (GREEK - engLISH). How can we call the language which Greek words and phrases are written by Cyrillic alphabet? Greeksian? GREEK - rusSIAN?

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    I cannot imagine that Russian people can understand this dialogue. Can they?
    They can guess with a level of certainty. The dialogue consists of a small number of words, and after guessing a few (starting with obvious "Greek", "Russian", "English", "to write", etc.) you can puzzle it through.
    I was able to translate it, as far as I remember, but I messed up a couple of words.

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