German Chancellor's Russian daughter

Will the German Chancellor's adopted Russian daughter Viktoria be raised learning and speaking German from now on or will she be tutored in both languages? Can her adoptive parents speak Russian or do they intend to learn it as part of their daughter's cultural background and identity? Is a language entirely forgotten if it is abandoned at a very young age? What difficulties are characteristic for a Russian learning German? (How do Russians feel about the adoption?) Twenty questions I know but it's interesting.....

I can't answer any of your questions concerning the German chancellor and his adopted White Russian daugther.
But I think I can add a few observations about aquiring a foreign language by (very) young children.
Steven Pinker arguments in his book "The blank slate", that the influence of parents over their children is surprisingly small compared to the influence of the children's peers. And that's exactly what I see. I know a few families from other countries (Bosnia, China) where in all cases both parents are not fluent in German and speak with a very audible accent. But their children speek German absolutely perfect and I can't hear the slightest acccent. I think this will also happen if the child comes to a new evironment when it is not to old.
I remember one other case: A friend of mine from Australia (who speaks German fluently) married a German wife who had two children (twins) from her first marriage. When the twins were about seven years old the family left for Australia. Now the boys are abaout 30 years old. Both still speak German but they feel not "at home" in this language and if you hear them speaking it sounds a little bit strange. For them (Australian) English is there native language. And there you have to consider that they came to their new environment only at the age of about 7 years and that their parents still speak German at home most time.

I do agree with the last post.
When a children is brought in another country which is not his/hers, he/she will learn to speak the new language fluently and maybe forget the native one.
Just an example: I have two cousins (brother and sisters) who moved to Canada, Quebec, a few years ago. Before going away from Italy, they spoke Italian and even bits of dialect.
Since they live in Canada, they have forgotten almost entirely italian, and speak french and english even between themselves ( to the great sorrow of my grandparents, who can't understand them now...).
So, I think the linguistic environment in which a children grows up, establishes the new-native language of the children, even if he was born in a different language-speaking country.
I can imagine this will happen to the russian daughter of German counsellor too...

This is only my opinion, of course..
Bye all

I hope she doesn't forget her native Russian language.(The chanceler's daughter.) :( If anyone knows, how old was she when she was adopted?

I think the girl is about three (?) years old and from Belarus. She was adopted a few weeks ago (I'm not very good informed on this topic because I only read the headlines in the newspapers).
Therefore I believe that it is rather unlikely that she remembers much of (White)Russian when she has grown up.

Perhaps I am wrong, but although you may call them Wei

I agree that when she is older she probably won't remember her native Russian. I am sure that if she lived in an orphanage she probably doesn't speak well. But I think that when she is older, relearning Russian might not be so hard for her, compared to a foreigner who has never heard it, especially as a young child in that enviorment/situation.

[quote=Pravit]Perhaps I am wrong, but although you may call them Wei

Ok, maybe the usage of white Russian / Wei

In Swedish it

Well, in english we say "white russia" too, it's just the word "white" is in russian =P

Belorussia.

No, it doesn't sound disparaging, but the usage is always Belarus/Belarussian in English, so it sounds like (a)she is a descendant of people who fled Russia during the Russian Civil War - which would work until you started talking about her white Russian language (b)you were referring to her race, which kind of sounds strange(and when you get to the language it doesn't make sense again). BTW, how much Belarussian is really spoken in Belarus? That is, how many kids grow up with their first language being Belarussian?

For pity's sake, she's only 3 years old, which means she doesn't know all that much Russian/Belorussian to start with. Not much to forget. If she decides to "relearn" it when she grows up I doubt it will be any easier for her than for anyone whose one and only language is German.

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Originally Posted by Pravit

No, it doesn't sound disparaging, but the usage is always Belarus/Belarussian in English, so it sounds like (a)she is a descendant of people who fled Russia during the Russian Civil War

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Actually, 'White Russian' - to denote a person from Belarus - is not uncommon, at least in British English. It's old fashioned, but not obsolete. Those who fought the Bolsheviks, moreover, were indeed monickered 'Whites', but never, as far as I can imagine, 'White Russians'. Старик's original usage was entirely correct.

Well, it's entirely uncommon in American English. Although the Internet isn't exactly the best place to look for examples of good usage, a search for "white russian civil war" will turn up several pages with "White Russian" being used in that sense. I wouldn't stay Starik's post is entirely correct; for British English speakers, it may sound old-fashioned, but for most American English speakers it will sound plain weird.

BTW, apparently the correct spelling is "Belarusian" with only one 's'.

I agree that a child's peers would have more influence over them than their parents and a child that moves to another country will very quickly become as fluent as their peers. It has been remarked that it probably depends on the age of the child as to how 'natural' they become in that language. But - Vending Machine - is it really the case that Viktoria knows very little of her own native language at 3 years old? She & other 3 year olds will know quite a lot - at this age she understands a huge amount of spoken language. I don't agree there's 'not much to forget'. I do agree that she will forget it quickly though. :wink:

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Originally Posted by irisheyes

But - Vending Machine - is it really the case that Viktoria knows very little of her own native language at 3 years old? She & other 3 year olds will know quite a lot - at this age she understands a huge amount of spoken language. I don't agree there's 'not much to forget'.

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Just about how much Russian would a 3 y.o. know? Кот написал. Three year olds don't know how to communicate effectively. They make stupid mistakes in their Russian all the time. Their vocabulary is quite limited. My nextdoor neighbour's daughter - she's just turned five and she speaks very little Russian. At 3 y.o. all they can do is pick poo out of their spotty bottoms and thuck their filthy thumbs and then puke all over your best clothes. I once forgot a language - votjakki - at the ripe old age of seven, so I know what I'm talking about.

OK kid - calm down. Three year olds don't need to communicate effectively (adults do). I'm CLEARLY not talking about what tots say - I'm talking about what they know. Erm...best not let you babysit this weekend then............... :wink:

I thought it was Udmurt you forgot. Or are Votjakki and Udmurt the same language? I don't know much about them, obviously.

irisheyes-
I agree with you. At age 3, being exposed to it and hearing it all the time, I bet she understands everything. Though I bet that she doesn't speak it well. That is, if she lived in an orphanage. Being around so many other babies(As I was when I was that age in Ukraine), speech is delayed. Though I am sure it of course depends on the person. I don't think she will forget it that fast. It will seem that she does, because being in a new enviorment speaking German, she won't want to speak in her first language. She'll want to speak in only German. Who knows when she is older.. I don't know her situation well enough.

VendingMachine-
If she was older, and decided to relearn Russian, it could be very difficult, or it could be very easy. It depends on the person, and their ability. But, I disagree when you say "there's not much to forget".

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Originally Posted by Pravit

I thought it was Udmurt you forgot. Or are Votjakki and Udmurt the same language? I don't know much about them, obviously.

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Yep, Votjakki = Udmurt. In Russian Udmurt (Votjakki) is удмуртский.

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Originally Posted by Евгения Белякова

VendingMachine-
If she was older, and decided to relearn Russian, it could be very difficult, or it could be very easy. It depends on the person, and their ability. But, I disagree when you say "there's not much to forget".

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Jane, lass, when I says there's nowt to forget, there's nowt to forget. Fifteen Cockney gobshites on t' dead yorkshireman's chest, but she's is only a small bairn!

i know heaps of people who come from other countries and, perhaps an aussie accent is harder to manage than other languages, but even those who came to Australia at a very young age (3 or 4 years old) still have accents from their country of origin. a lot of my friends are indian or phillo and although they speak fluent english they still have accents, even the ones who no longer speak their native language. i have no idea about this chancellor person's daughter... (we have very biased news here and only get news about america england or australia... or iraq now)... but i'd say it depends on how her adoptive parents speak to her... if they know how to speak russian and speak to her in both languages then she'll probably end up speaking russian with a german accent. they'd have to know some russian but 'cause otherwise how would she know what the hell they're talking about?

Her adoptive parents don't have to know Russian. She will eventually forget her Russian and speak only German, if nobody speaks Russian with her. Even if her adoptive parents spoke Russian, since everyone around her was speaking German, she won't want to speak Russian.

Many Americans adopt Russian babies/toddlers/children. Actually I don't think babies are really adopted from there. The youngest is maybe a year? I don't know. Well what happens usually is the child is adopted to the American parents, the american parents speak English to them, then they don't want to speak Russian, and then they forget.

I think it's too bad, but nobody's fault.

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Originally Posted by Евгения Белякова

I think it's too bad, but nobody's fault.

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I think it's OK. It's the nature's way. No language is better/worse. One language lost, one gained, who cares. I wouldn't give a hoot if it happened to me.

Yes, it is nature's way. To different people they may think different things, but I think it's too bad for a child to lose their native language and then learn a new language. Just my opinion.