Thread: Чёрный юмор

Originally Posted by maxmixiv

Винни-Пух приходит к Пятачку и говорит:
- Я хочу открыть кооператив "Медок". Ты мне поможешь?
- Ух ты! Конечно! Мед будешь продавать?
- Нет, мед я буду покупать, а продавать я буду свинину.

I love this one!

I would point out that, as far as know, there are no analogous jokes in English about Bugs Bunny and Daffy Duck, or about Tom and Jerry.

Possibly such jokes would be completely superfluous, because the original cartoons (especially from the "Golden Age" of the 1930s/1940s) were already full of sadistic violence, as well as sarcasm and sexual humor. See, for example, Tex Avery's famous parody of Красная Шапочка, from 1943:



So, possibly, the Винни-Пух cartoons became a natural inspiration for "underground" dark humor because the Soviet system of film censorship made it impossible for an animator like Tex Avery to flourish publicly?

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

So, possibly, the Винни-Пух cartoons became a natural inspiration for "underground" dark humor because the Soviet system of film censorship made it impossible for an animator like Tex Avery to flourish publicly?

You have a weird view on the USSR. That's not the censorship, it's just a philosophy of the Soviet society: little kids don't have to see any kind of violence. So the censorship is a secondary question.
P.S. If Americans like "sadistic" cartoons, because they grew up with them, they must like the shootings of kids too.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

You have a weird view on the USSR. That's not the censorship, it's just a philosophy of the Soviet society: little kids don't have to see any kind of violence.

So, Soviet animators were free to produce violent cartoons for adult audiences?

P.S. Please understand that in my view, there are different degrees of censorship. I'm not claiming that Tex Avery would have been sent to the Gulag if he had lived in the USSR; I'm claiming that the Soviet system would have prevented him from having any sort of distinguished career as a professional animator. He was a major success in the US because the American film industry was comparatively less censored than the Soviet film industry.

(There was definitely censorship of American movies, but the power of the censors was more limited, especially for smaller, low-budget studios working outside the Hollywood system.)

P.P.S. The history of film censorship in America is rather complicated, but the ru.wikipedia article about the so-called Кодекс Хейса ("Hayes Code") has a good introduction to the topic. One important point is that Hollywood studios often engaged in "self-censorship" because they feared economic boycotts organized by conservative religious groups -- it wasn't always because the state was censoring the studios with the force of official law. (State censorship occurred too, especially in WW2, but the censorship in the US was more often the result of "market forces".)

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

I'm claiming that the Soviet system would have prevented him from having any sort of distinguished career as a professional animator. He was a major success in the US because the American film industry was comparatively less censored than the Soviet film industry.

Does that mean that he had no real creative talent rather than playing on "adult instincts"?
It's hardly an achievement, I dare say.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

So, Soviet animators were free to produce violent cartoons for adult audiences?

You are recommended to see old (1967-1971) Soviet cartoon series on The Jungle Book. There are enough violence (especially in comparison with Disney version) like cutting off dog's tail and epic massacre in the battle between wolves and dogs. And overall tone is quite dark and cruel.

It was intended for children. And children like it.

And there are no cruel anecdotes about Mowgli.

Originally Posted by Throbert McGee

So, Soviet animators were free to produce violent cartoons for adult audiences?

Well, in fact they could resort to such technique only if it was really necessary. For example, in the famous parody cartoon "Ograblenie po..." an American-styled robbery (the first section) is shown like a very bloody action (you should take a look obligatory, it's amusing).
Anyway, there are not so many cartoons for adult audiences. Just a few cartoons maybe.

Originally Posted by Paul G.

Anyway, there are not so many cartoons for adult audiences. Just a few cartoons maybe.

I think they are quite many, especially from the late USSR.
- Many science fiction cartoons: Контакт, Полигон (BTW about violence), Контракт etc. etc.
- Cartoons were the most free art area for experiments. Will you tell me that Ежик в тумане was intended for children? ORLY?
They can say "This is for children" and produce all kinds of psychodelic insanity.
- Aesopian language, humor, satire... Великолепный Гоша, Фильм-фильм-фильм, Остров сокровищ... For children? Well... for children too.

Originally Posted by it-ogo

I think they are quite many, especially from the late USSR.
- Many science fiction cartoons: Контакт, Полигон (BTW about violence), Контракт etc. etc.
- Cartoons were the most free art area for experiments. Will you tell me that Ежик в тумане was intended for children? ORLY?
They can say "This is for children" and produce all kinds of psychodelic insanity.
- Aesopian language, humor, satire... Великолепный Гоша, Фильм-фильм-фильм, Остров сокровищ... For children? Well... for children too.

There are thousands of Soviet cartoons, and very glad I am to have seen so many good ones! In my opinion, they leave the west behind. From Гаф to Веселая Карусель, all kinds of children's ones, and ones like to Кто расскажет небылицу?, Халиф-айст, Вперед время!, and on and on. So many great works of art, a cultural treasure. Even one Kafka could perhaps like, Айнудизм.