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Thread: Voiced/unvoiced consonants (вчера, сдачаб)

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    Voiced/unvoiced consonants (вчера, сдачаб)

    Hi all,

    Ok, I know the rule that the voiced consonants б/в/г/д/ж/з are pronounced as their unvoiced equivalent when they appear before one of the unvoiced consonants п/ф/к/т/ш/с. So вторник is like ftor-nik.

    But why does вчера seem to be like fchi-ra instead of vchi-ra, please? в would become ф if the next letter were п/ф/к/т/ш/с... but the next letter is ч so why the change?

    Any advice greatly received.

    Thanks,

    Simon

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    Завсегдатай it-ogo's Avatar
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    Re: Вчера

    It's all right. Ч is unvoiced consonant.

    Ч has no voiced couple in Russian but in general it exists. The voiced couple for ч is j like in John in English. Try to whisper "John" and you will have something like "чон".
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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    Re: Voiced/unvoiced consonants (вчера, сдачаб)

    Thanks it-ogo.

    So the rule is actually that that б/в/г/д/ж/з mutate to п/ф/к/т/ш/с if they appear before any unvoiced consonant, right? Which would also mean before ч/х/ц/щ in addition to п/ф/к/т/ш/с?

    On this topic, please can I check that I have the other rules correct:

    2) б/в/г/д/ж/з mutate to п/ф/к/т/ш/с when they appear at the end of a word. That rule is simple enough I think... город sounds like go-rat, etc.

    3) п/ф/к/т/ш/с mutate to б/в/г/д/ж/з when they appear before б/г/д/ж/з only. This I’ve read but couldn’t really hear myself... should сдача sound like zda-cha instead of sda-cha, etc?

    Thanks,

    Simon

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    Re: Voiced/unvoiced consonants (вчера, сдачаб)

    Quote Originally Posted by becksie
    So the rule is actually that that б/в/г/д/ж/з mutate to п/ф/к/т/ш/с if they appear before any unvoiced consonant, right? Which would also mean before ч/х/ц/щ in addition to п/ф/к/т/ш/с?
    Precisely!

    Quote Originally Posted by becksie
    2) б/в/г/д/ж/з mutate to п/ф/к/т/ш/с when they appear at the end of a word. That rule is simple enough I think... город sounds like go-rat, etc.
    Correct

    Quote Originally Posted by becksie
    3) п/ф/к/т/ш/с mutate to б/в/г/д/ж/з when they appear before б/г/д/ж/з only. This I’ve read but couldn’t really hear myself... should сдача sound like zda-cha instead of sda-cha, etc?
    Correct too. "сдать экзамен" ("to pass an exam") sounds like "здать эгзамен" (Well, the unstressed "э" and "е" in "экзамен" do not actually sounds like "э" and "е", but that's outside of the scope of this thread)

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    Завсегдатай chaika's Avatar
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    Re: Voiced/unvoiced consonants (вчера, сдачаб)

    »when they appear at the end of a word
    Actually this should read "before silence" because you have
    for example
    дед был /d'edbyl/
    >should сдача sound like zda-cha
    yes.
    >when they appear before б/г/д/ж/з only
    happens before all voiced consonants

    and don't forget about ш ц ч and maybe щ (can't think of examples)
    They are replaced by voiced phonetic counterparts before voiced consonants
    отец был = [at'éӡbýl] where I used ӡ to represent the voiced ц.


    And ж behaves similarly. Вижу нож. Нож был.

    L, R, M and N do not participate in this phonetic phenomenon.

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    Re: Voiced/unvoiced consonants (вчера, сдачаб)

    Thanks translationsnmru and chaika.

    happens before all voiced consonants
    So п/ф/к/т/ш/с mutate to б/в/г/д/ж/з when they appear before л/м/н/р/й as well as б/г/д/ж/з ? I’m sure I read somewhere that it doesn’t happen before в though?

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    Re: Voiced/unvoiced consonants (вчера, сдачаб)

    Quote Originally Posted by becksie
    So п/ф/к/т/ш/с mutate to б/в/г/д/ж/з when they appear before л/м/н/р/й as well as б/г/д/ж/з ?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by becksie
    I’m sure I read somewhere that it doesn’t happen before в though?
    No, it doesn't. квас = kvas, Тверь = tver, свет = svet
    "Россия для русских" - это неправильно. Остальные-то чем лучше?

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